Now need a test EVEN if vaccinated!

[Catnip]

4 hours ago, voyager70 said:

 

 

 

Testing and masking is not my idea of a vacation.

 

Land trips from now on, or at least until cruising does away with it.

 

Hear, hear!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!    Ditto for my family 

[Tippyton]

3 hours ago, flyguyjake said:

I wonder how long it will be until they come out and say prior Covid infected are being reinfected by Delta? Not really hearing about these "breakthroughs"?

Because they're rare.  See my earlier post on page 13.

 

- The Forgotten 20

[Empehi]

There are so many threads running through this discussion I can only reflect on what I see as the main points ....

 

1. Many vaccinated cruiser do not want mandatory testing to board a cruise or mandatory mask requirements.  So ... RCL it would make sense to offer some cruises for these cruisers. Perhaps when school is in session ...

 

2.  The COIVD virus is not going away. Everyone has to decide how they are going to live with it going forward.  Companies will have protocols and us as consumers will make the decision if the protocols are acceptable. The companies (cruise lines in this case) must make the protocols clear at the time of purchase and if they change prior to sailing, we should have the ability to cancel with a full refund (not only FCC).

 

I have not cruised since Feb 2020 but have one coming up in November and I personally would not enjoy a cruise where you are constantly reminded of COVID by announcements of cases on board, wearing tracking devices, unable to socialize, wearing masks, constant testing (hopefully RCL will not go to daily testing like Viking) etc etc. Not my idea of a fun time!

[SRF]

16 hours ago, At Sea At Peace said:

 

Thanks.  Good stuff.

 

Question.

 

These efficacy percentages are at the MAX in a 'time period.'

 

For example, Pfizer released statements that the Pfizer efficacy effectiveness was strongest at 96.2% between one week and two months after receiving the second dose.

 

https://www.cnbc.com/2021/07/28/pfizers-ceo-says-covid-vaccine-effectiveness-drops-to-84percent-after-six-months.html

 

Further, after 4 to 6-months, such efficacy had dropped to 84%.

 

Further, they stated that there was a 6% reduction every 2-months.

 

So, presented as a question, does that mean that at ~

 

Pfizer - Month   8 - efficacy 78%

 

Pfizer - Month 10 - efficacy 72%

 

Pfizer - Month 12 - efficacy 66%

 

Then, presented as a question, is this possibly to become a factor in the cruise lines risk assessment and related policies?

 

 

 

I would suspect that this will start a round of boosters.

 

I know that the major companies are working on a combined flu/COVID vaccine for this flu season.

 

So you would get your flu shot and a COVID booster.  And most likely, the vaccine would be tweaked to cover the variants that have popped up

 

And, as I have stated before, the only thing shortened in the vaccine testing was the long term efficacy studies, which are on going.  And where data like you mention comes from.

[deliver42]

I'm vaccinated, and aren't crazy about getting the pre cruise test, but it is what it is, and I don't think it's going away anytime soon.

[SRF]

11 hours ago, mavo68 said:

I’m still confused about the “very small numbers”. The Providencetown, MA incident has me very concerned. I mean it doesn’t seem like anyone is getting extremely sick but 74% of the positive cases are fully vaccinated.

 

The question is how does it affect people.

 

If you "get infected" but there are no symptoms and no affects, does it matter?

 

No vaccine prevents infection.  What it does is accelerates the body's response, so the infection is at a sub clinical level.  No affects.   Same with things that you have not been vaccinated against, but have immunity.  You are constantly being exposed to bacteria and viruses, but they do not get a chance to get to the level of concern.

 

If the ONLY way you can tell someone is infected is with testing, the vaccine is working.  Testing typically will provide a positive result at very low levels of virus present.

 

The issue as I saw it reported was that vaccinated people could have a subclinical case of Delta, but high enough to expose unvaccinated people, who WILL have symptoms and health issues.

[SRF]

15 hours ago, satchimosmom said:

I’ve heard it said we ALL will eventually get COVID.  It’s a matter if you’ll have the protection of the vaccine or not. 

 

Not exactly.

 

But it depends on your definition of "getting it."

 

If you mean being exposed and having the virus in your body.  Yes.  

 

But that mean you will be sick?  NO.

[MorganClark]

3 minutes ago, deliver42 said:

I'm vaccinated, and aren't crazy about getting the pre cruise test, but it is what it is, and I don't think it's going away anytime soon.

 

I'm vaccinated, as well. I did a pre-cruise pcr test and then a pre-cruise rapid antigen test (when at cruise check-in, RCI rejected my pcr test for being outside the 5 day prior to sailing date. Btw,  RCI's own written policy said no more than 5 days prior to entry into the Bahamas). Both were easy-peasy. I had my rapid antigen negative test result within 15 minures. I agree with you, this testing i(like covid) is not going away anytime soon.

[At Sea At Peace]

12 hours ago, mavo68 said:

I’m still confused about the “very small numbers”. The Providencetown, MA incident has me very concerned. I mean it doesn’t seem like anyone is getting extremely sick but 74% of the positive cases are fully vaccinated.

 

Reports from late yesterday indicate (unconfirmed) that the study (I believe it was in India of 100 breakthrough cases) that caused the recent change in protocols has been 'withdrawn.'  I don't know what that means if true.  Further, it is now noted by CDC press releases that the breakout cluster you are referring to is now one of the underlying support factors for the change in protocols.

 

However, the 'data' is simply not fully disclosed for possibly for quite obvious societal reasons.  Here is the article about the underlying cause event for that cluster.

 

https://www.advocate.com/health/2021/7/19/covid-cluster-hits-provincetown-affecting-vaccinated-unvaccinated

 

There is no social message here, just that it would be nice to have the regulators provide all of the data.  Based on the article, "if correct," and looking at the packed, density of the causal event, I have a hard time believing that such conditions are simulated grocery shopping, dining or cruising.

 

That being said, I simply don't know if we get all of the data on each of the other reference points that are being used to support renewed protocols.

 

17 minutes ago, SRF said:

 

The question is how does it affect people.

 

If you "get infected" but there are no symptoms and no affects, does it matter?

 

No vaccine prevents infection.  What it does is accelerates the body's response, so the infection is at a sub clinical level.  No affects.   Same with things that you have not been vaccinated against, but have immunity.  You are constantly being exposed to bacteria and viruses, but they do not get a chance to get to the level of concern.

 

If the ONLY way you can tell someone is infected is with testing, the vaccine is working.  Testing typically will provide a positive result at very low levels of virus present.

 

The issue as I saw it reported was that vaccinated people could have a subclinical case of Delta, but high enough to expose unvaccinated people, who WILL have symptoms and health issues.

 

Thanks for the information.

 

I guess it appears that the load is very high and the transmission rate also, however the severity of symptoms, hospitalization and deaths are not equally such.

 

I'm still increasing my protocols, despite the concern about the data or the media presentations, basically due to having extenuating risks and having been vaccinated quite early in January and nearing the entry into the 8th month post-vaccination of what is acknowledged (by the developer of the Pfizer vaccine) the monthly decrease in efficacy.

 

Again, thanks.

Edited July 31, 2021 by At Sea At Peace

[BecciBoo]

9 hours ago, Catnip said:

Testing and masking is not my idea of a vacation.

But, whilst we're cruising, you and your family will most likely be subject to new mask mandates and distancing where you live....on land...daily.  Right, so what's the difference?  That's life with Covid.  Unless of course, you elect not to follow the mandates..."not that there's anything wrong with that" (Seinfeld)

[SRF]

1 minute ago, At Sea At Peace said:

 

Reports from late yesterday indicate (unconfirmed) that the study (I believe it was in India of 100 breakthrough cases) that cause the recent change in protocols has been 'withdrawn.'  I don't know what the means if true.  Further, it is now noted by CDC press releases that the breakout cluster you are referring to is now one of the underlying support factors for the change in protocols.

 

However, the 'data' is simply not fully disclosed for quite obvious reasons.  Here is the article about the underlying cause event for that cluster.

 

https://www.advocate.com/health/2021/7/19/covid-cluster-hits-provincetown-affecting-vaccinated-unvaccinated

 

There is no social message here, just that it would be nice to have the regulators provide all of the data.  Based on the article, "if correct," and looking at the packed, density of the causal event, I have a hard time believing that such conditions are simulated grocery shopping, dining or cruising.

 

That being said, I simply don't know if we get all of the data on each of the other reference points that are being used to support renewed protocols.

 

 

Thanks for the information.

 

I guess it appears that the load is very high and the transmission rate also, however the severity of symptoms, hospitalization and deaths are not equally such.

 

I'm still increasing my protocols, despite the concern about the data or the media presentations, basically due to having extenuating risks and having been vaccinated quite early in January and nearing the entry into the 8th month post-vaccination of what is acknowledged (by the developer of the Pfizer vaccine) the monthly decrease in efficacy.

 

Again, thanks.

 

Thanks for the info.

[BecciBoo]

1 minute ago, At Sea At Peace said:

I'm still increasing my protocols,

We are increasing ours as well for the next 40 days until our cruise.  We'll be going back to ordering our groceries from Wally World and self quarantining on our mountain.  Better to prevent as much contact as possible before flying, so we can hopefully pass that test.

[LouChamp]

5 minutes ago, BecciBoo said:

But, whilst we're cruising, you and your family will most likely be subject to new mask mandates and distancing where you live....on land...daily.  Right, so what's the difference?  That's life with Covid.  Unless of course, you elect not to follow the mandates..."not that there's anything wrong with that" (Seinfeld)

the difference is not being confined on a floating petri dish.  Not my idea of a vacation and putting my wife at risk 

[BecciBoo]

5 minutes ago, LouChamp said:

the difference is not being confined on a floating petri dish.  Not my idea of a vacation and putting my wife at risk 

I applaud your concern for your wife...good hubby!

 

Not getting bated into any more arguments...not that you're doing that...but there are always some who can't resist the pot.

Edited July 31, 2021 by BecciBoo

[dolphfan]

10 minutes ago, At Sea At Peace said:

 

Reports from late yesterday indicate (unconfirmed) that the study (I believe it was in India of 100 breakthrough cases) that caused the recent change in protocols has been 'withdrawn.'  I don't know what that means if true.  Further, it is now noted by CDC press releases that the breakout cluster you are referring to is now one of the underlying support factors for the change in protocols.

 

However, the 'data' is simply not fully disclosed for possibly for quite obvious societal reasons.  Here is the article about the underlying cause event for that cluster.

 

https://www.advocate.com/health/2021/7/19/covid-cluster-hits-provincetown-affecting-vaccinated-unvaccinated

 

There is no social message here, just that it would be nice to have the regulators provide all of the data.  Based on the article, "if correct," and looking at the packed, density of the causal event, I have a hard time believing that such conditions are simulated grocery shopping, dining or cruising.

 

That being said, I simply don't know if we get all of the data on each of the other reference points that are being used to support renewed protocols.

 

 

Thanks for the information.

 

I guess it appears that the load is very high and the transmission rate also, however the severity of symptoms, hospitalization and deaths are not equally such.

 

I'm still increasing my protocols, despite the concern about the data or the media presentations, basically due to having extenuating risks and having been vaccinated quite early in January and nearing the entry into the 8th month post-vaccination of what is acknowledged (by the developer of the Pfizer vaccine) the monthly decrease in efficacy.

 

Again, thanks.

CDC policy seems to be:

"Get your facts first, then you can distort them as you please."

Mark Twain

[LouChamp]

6 minutes ago, BecciBoo said:

I applaud your concern for your wife...good hubby!

 

Not getting bated into any more arguments...not that you're doing that...but there are always some who can't resist the pot.

Apologies to you. Just voicing my opinion. I sincerely wish you smooth sailing  and good health.  All the best . 

[BecciBoo]

1 minute ago, LouChamp said:

Apologies to you. Just voicing my opinion. I sincerely wish you smooth sailing  and good health.  All the best . 

No apology needed...happy cruising to you...someday😇

[BecciBoo]

33 minutes ago, MorganClark said:

RCI rejected my pcr test for being outside the 5 day prior to sailing date

I am now debating (myself) about that very thing.  I know they got really technical on you...so is this assumption correct: 

  It appears that we'll be able to get our test done at Walgreens on Thursday before we fly, as I read the 3 day requirement, test on Thurs. at Walgreens at10...10:00 Fri (one)..10:00 Sat. (two) and 10:00 Sunday (boarding day) is 3 days so we're good...am I right?  So complicated!

[orville99]

1 minute ago, BecciBoo said:

I am now debating (myself) about that very thing.  I know they got really technical on you...so is this assumption correct: 

  It appears that we'll be able to get our test done at Walgreens on Thursday before we fly, as I read the 3 day requirement, test on Thurs. at Walgreens at10...10:00 Fri (one)..10:00 Sat. (two) and 10:00 Sunday (boarding day) is 3 days so we're good...am I right?  So complicated!

That's probably right although I've read that the testing day is considered day 0, so that would suggest Wednesday as the first acceptable testing day for a Sunday departure. I wonder how they will handle B2B cruises?

[not-enough-cruising]

6 minutes ago, orville99 said:

That's probably right although I've read that the testing day is considered day 0, so that would suggest Wednesday as the first acceptable testing day for a Sunday departure. I wonder how they will handle B2B cruises?

Testing day is day zero, if you test wednesday, then Saturday is day 3, that won't work for a Sunday departure.

 

Saturday Embarkation test on Wednesday

Sunday Embarkation test on Thursday

Edited July 31, 2021 by not-enough-cruising

[BecciBoo]

3 minutes ago, orville99 said:

That's probably right although I've read that the testing day is considered day 0, so that would suggest Wednesday as the first acceptable testing day for a Sunday departure. I wonder how they will handle B2B cruises?

See what I mean...very confusing or perhaps I'm just a dunderhead, I'm sure some on here will love that.🤬

[atricks]

29 minutes ago, SRF said:

 

Thanks for the info.

There's a lot of meida obfuscation in the "breakthrough cases in Massachussets Story."  It boils down to 90% male, during "Bear week" in provincetown.  You can google it if you want.  Gives a whole new context to that outbreak.

[BecciBoo]

4 minutes ago, not-enough-cruising said:

that went work for a sunday departure.

So I was right?  We'll need a Thursday test?

 

Got it

Edited July 31, 2021 by BecciBoo

[BecciBoo]

1 minute ago, atricks said:

There's a lot of meida obfuscation in the "breakthrough cases in Massachussets Story."  It boils down to 90% male, during "Bear week" in provincetown.  You can google it if you want.  Gives a whole new context to that outbreak.

Are we talkin beer boys and guns???

[not-enough-cruising]

1 minute ago, BecciBoo said:

So I was right?  We'll need a Thursday test?

For a Sunday cruise, test Thursday or later