CDC protocols withdrawn

[PrincessLuver]

4 minutes ago, dreaminofcruisin said:

Masking isn't great, but we'll do what we need to do.

What I would like to see go away is the testing. It's such an inconvenience and I'm not convinced it 'proves' whether or not one is infectious when they get on a ship anyway since it occurs 2 days earlier...... 

 

I prefer it all and wish they tested more on a 10 day cruise or longer, not just at boarding.  The 10 day cruise we were on allowed everyone off at ports to do their own thing but by the 10th day there was Covid on the ship.....

[ontheweb]

3 hours ago, memoak said:

Masking requirements are not going away anytime soon. also expect proof of vaccination to still be required. No one knows if and when a new variant will arrive

And very possibly there will be an added requirement of a booster shot.

[gardenbunny]

2 hours ago, dreaminofcruisin said:

Masking isn't great, but we'll do what we need to do.

What I would like to see go away is the testing. It's such an inconvenience and I'm not convinced it 'proves' whether or not one is infectious when they get on a ship anyway since it occurs 2 days earlier...... 

I second that.  

Absolutely, it only “proves” you tested negative at that preceise time you swabbed your nose.

You need to test every day if you truly want testing to be anywhere close to effective.  

People forget it is “a moment in time” test.    With as fast as Omicron spreads, you could be negative on your 2 days before boarding test -  but by the first couple days on the ship - either having symptoms or not - test positive. So in between that time who knows which particle of virus you let out into the air that gets inhaled by some random person passing by??

 

If they only allow vaccinated passengers on board and a mask, that is safe enough for me.  I was not concerned at all on the Enchanted on NYE cruise.

 

I have recently had personal friends (all considered in good health) vaccinated and unvaccinated that got Omicron and said it felt like a bad cold for a few days and then gone.  We tend to forget after 2 years of Covid-mania people can still have issues with the  common cold going into bronchitis and in some cases to pnuemonia and death.

 

It all comes back to your personal choice and risk factor. If you are not comfortable going, then wait.

[Steelers36]

6 hours ago, Ken the cruiser said:

I'm not seeing the paragraph where it said passengers on cruise ships are required to wear facemasks indoors. Can you please point me to that paragraph? All I see is references to US public transportation, last updated June 10, 2021. 

 

Updated: If I might add no passenger on a Celebrity cruise has been required to wear a face mask while indoors on any of their cruise ships until a couple of weeks ago. However, all passengers have been required to wear a mask in the terminal prior to boarding the ship at a US port and once they disembark from the ship at a US port; or any other country with similar masking requirements.

 

When I hear/see the term "public transportation", I think of municipal/regional transit created and operated by government for which fares are paid - with everyone paying the same fare (by age, etc, for child and senior discounts).  Like buses and subways.

 

I don't immediately think of commercial operations by companies with stock and shareholders like airlines and such.  Obviously commercial transportation companies are being looped into the orders and I am wondering if this is the confusion. 

 

 

That said, I looked at the CDC link above and found this:

 

The Order applies to all public transportation conveyances traveling into the United States (i.e., arriving from a foreign country) or within the United States (including within states or territories or traveling between states or territories). This includes school buses. The Order also applies to all conveyances leaving the United States until they arrive at a foreign destination.

 

It seems to me one could interpret this and apply as follows:  A Princess ship departs from PE, FL with a first stop in the Bahamas at Princess Cay.  Mask required at terminal, boarding, and until the Bahamas as the ship has now arrived at a foreign destination.  And then, no mask mandate until the last day when the ship is travelling into the USA from a foreign country.  If this interpretation is a valid one, it doesn't seem to matter much as Princess has their mask mandate for the entire voyage.  Perhaps it is this language that made a different policy on Celebrity.  I have no idea - this is the first time I am reading about specific application or not.  I imagine it is worded this way as the CDC cannot dictate what happens outside the USA sphere of control.  Anyway, not advocating one way or the other - just some interesting language I had not seen referenced here.

 

 

 

 

[caribill]

13 hours ago, K.T.B. said:

I firmly believe the cruise lines are going to continue with the same protocols. 

 

Once the CSO order expired, Princess cancelled the Covid testing that had been required for all passengers on the way back to the USA on the Hawaii cruise that was underway at the time.

[iamaqt2]

1 minute ago, caribill said:

 

Once the CSO order expired, Princess cancelled the Covid testing that had been req

Really?!?  When did Princess stop required Covid testing?

 

[caribill]

1 minute ago, iamaqt2 said:

Really?!?  When did Princess stop required Covid testing?

 

My post was accidentally posted before I had finished it. Go back and read what is the post says now. It was a specific example, not a general one.

[GonzoWCS]

17 hours ago, Steelers36 said:

Without having read it all myself, I get the impression that the CSO has just been re-cast into a new flavor of the month while retaining much of its former self.

Yup

[Daniel A]

17 hours ago, Steelers36 said:

Without having read it all myself, I get the impression that the CSO has just been re-cast into a new flavor of the month while retaining much of its former self.

 

30 minutes ago, GonzoWCS said:

Yup

But for now, their bark is worse than their bite.  The teeth have been extracted from the CSO.  👨‍⚕️

[USCcruisecrazy]

9 hours ago, Steelers36 said:

 

When I hear/see the term "public transportation", I think of municipal/regional transit created and operated by government for which fares are paid - with everyone paying the same fare (by age, etc, for child and senior discounts).  Like buses and subways.

 

I don't immediately think of commercial operations by companies with stock and shareholders like airlines and such.  Obviously commercial transportation companies are being looped into the orders and I am wondering if this is the confusion. 

 

 

That said, I looked at the CDC link above and found this:

 

The Order applies to all public transportation conveyances traveling into the United States (i.e., arriving from a foreign country) or within the United States (including within states or territories or traveling between states or territories). This includes school buses. The Order also applies to all conveyances leaving the United States until they arrive at a foreign destination.

 

It seems to me one could interpret this and apply as follows:  A Princess ship departs from PE, FL with a first stop in the Bahamas at Princess Cay.  Mask required at terminal, boarding, and until the Bahamas as the ship has now arrived at a foreign destination.  And then, no mask mandate until the last day when the ship is travelling into the USA from a foreign country.  If this interpretation is a valid one, it doesn't seem to matter much as Princess has their mask mandate for the entire voyage.  Perhaps it is this language that made a different policy on Celebrity.  I have no idea - this is the first time I am reading about specific application or not.  I imagine it is worded this way as the CDC cannot dictate what happens outside the USA sphere of control.  Anyway, not advocating one way or the other - just some interesting language I had not seen referenced here.

 

 

 

 

You definitely bring up some interesting points.  I would agree that once the boat docks at a foreign port (or even anchored off that land...like Princess Cay) you can easily see the mandate no longer being effective.  It would then be a choice of the Cruise Line or the nation you are visiting.  I just hope when we are scheduled to sail in January of 2023 that this is all history.  If masks are required anywhere on the ships by then, I'm pretty sure we will spend the cash at an all-inclusive that doesn't require them.  After 3 shots and still catching COVID (yes, 3 shots and wearing a mask where required) we have no desire to continue such useless endeavors. 

[Ken the cruiser]

10 hours ago, Steelers36 said:

 

When I hear/see the term "public transportation", I think of municipal/regional transit created and operated by government for which fares are paid - with everyone paying the same fare (by age, etc, for child and senior discounts).  Like buses and subways.

 

I don't immediately think of commercial operations by companies with stock and shareholders like airlines and such.  Obviously commercial transportation companies are being looped into the orders and I am wondering if this is the confusion. 

 

 

That said, I looked at the CDC link above and found this:

 

The Order applies to all public transportation conveyances traveling into the United States (i.e., arriving from a foreign country) or within the United States (including within states or territories or traveling between states or territories). This includes school buses. The Order also applies to all conveyances leaving the United States until they arrive at a foreign destination.

 

It seems to me one could interpret this and apply as follows:  A Princess ship departs from PE, FL with a first stop in the Bahamas at Princess Cay.  Mask required at terminal, boarding, and until the Bahamas as the ship has now arrived at a foreign destination.  And then, no mask mandate until the last day when the ship is travelling into the USA from a foreign country.  If this interpretation is a valid one, it doesn't seem to matter much as Princess has their mask mandate for the entire voyage.  Perhaps it is this language that made a different policy on Celebrity.  I have no idea - this is the first time I am reading about specific application or not.  I imagine it is worded this way as the CDC cannot dictate what happens outside the USA sphere of control.  Anyway, not advocating one way or the other - just some interesting language I had not seen referenced here.

 

Here is the full CDC Maritime definition with special emphasis on the second paragraph, which the CDC subsequently followed through with on May 26, 2021 (see the CDC CSO Technical Order reference below).

 

But, in all reality, this is all moot now and it will be interesting to see when Celebrity and Princess as well as the other cruise lines eventually decide to ease their respective indoor mandatory mask requirements currently in place on their respective ships.

 

Maritime

Does the mask order apply to all commercial maritime conveyance activity in the United States?

Yes, the mask order applies to all persons traveling on commercial maritime conveyances into, within, or out of the United States and to all persons at U.S. seaports, when located in indoor areas. The term commercial maritime conveyance means all forms of commercial maritime vessels, including but not limited to cargo ships, fishing vessels, research vessels, self-propelled barges, and all forms of passenger carrying vessels including ferries, river cruise ships, and those chartered for fishing trips, unless otherwise exempted.

 

CDC also plans to amend the January 29, 2021, Order, as soon as practicable, to grant cruise ship operators subject to the Conditional Sailing Order with greater flexibility regarding how mask requirements are implemented on board cruise ships.  Until it can amend the Order, CDC will exercise enforcement discretion regarding mask requirements applicable to operators of, and crew and passengers on board, such cruise ships and will view cruise ship operators as in compliance with the January 29, 2021, Order provided the operators continue to follow the requirements of any technical instructions and the operations manual available on the Cruise Ship Guidance webpage.

 

** CDC CSO Technical Order reference:

 

May 26, 2021

Provided cruise ship operators with more discretion regarding fully vaccinated travelers. Provided additional discretionary considerations for ships with at least 95% of crew and 95% of passengers fully vaccinated

 

Fully Vaccinated Travelers

 

Due to the increased transmissibility of some SARS-CoV-2 variants of concern, foreign-flagged cruise ship operators are advised to reconsider the following mask policies:

 

• For ships with at least 95% of crew and 95% of passengers fully vaccinated, cruise ship operators, at their discretion, may advise passengers and crew that they do not have to wear a mask or maintain physical distance in any areas. Confirmation that 95% of crew and 95% of passengers are fully vaccinated must be made available to CDC upon request.

 

Requirement for Face Masks on Public Transportation Conveyances and at Transportation Hubs | CDC

 

COVID-19 Operations Manual for Simulated and Restricted Voyages under the Temporary Extension & Modification of Framework for Conditional Sailing Order | Quarantine | CDC

 

 

[iamaqt2]

3 hours ago, Ken the cruiser said:

But, in all reality, this is all moot now and it will be interesting to see when Celebrity and Princess as well as the other cruise lines eventually decide to ease their respective indoor mandatory mask requirements currently in place on their respective ships.

I find it mildly amusing that just yesterday you were asking to be shown where to find this information, and today are quoting it as if it changes anything.

 

It doesn't. 

 

The cruise lines are still subject to the CDC's mask order for public transportation.  If and when the CDC changes that requirement, the cruise lines will then be able to make their own decisions regarding the masking requirement.

 

[Ken the cruiser]

4 minutes ago, iamaqt2 said:

I find it mildly amusing that just yesterday you were asking to be shown where to find this information, and today are quoting it as if it changes anything.

 

It doesn't. 

 

The cruise lines are still subject to the CDC's mask order for public transportation.  If and when the CDC changes that requirement, the cruise lines will then be able to make their own decisions regarding the masking requirement.

 

Ah, I see your point since the CDC's CSO has now expired with no replacement guidelines officially on the books yet. Makes sense from a technical point of view once the CSO expired Jan 15, 2022. 

 

CDC Promises New Cruise Program Details This Week - Cruise Industry News | Cruise News

 

[Senga]

7 hours ago, USCcruisecrazy said:

You definitely bring up some interesting points.  I would agree that once the boat docks at a foreign port (or even anchored off that land...like Princess Cay) you can easily see the mandate no longer being effective.  It would then be a choice of the Cruise Line or the nation you are visiting.  I just hope when we are scheduled to sail in January of 2023 that this is all history.  If masks are required anywhere on the ships by then, I'm pretty sure we will spend the cash at an all-inclusive that doesn't require them.  After 3 shots and still catching COVID (yes, 3 shots and wearing a mask where required) we have no desire to continue such useless endeavors. 

Can you imagine how much worse it would be if you hadn’t had 3 shots and didn’t wear masks?  We definitely don’t consider any of these “useless”.

[mellon1]

On 1/17/2022 at 2:40 PM, Steelers36 said:

For now yes, but I certainly hope we are back to situation normal by this Fall.

 

On 1/17/2022 at 6:57 PM, dreaminofcruisin said:

Masking isn't great, but we'll do what we need to do.

What I would like to see go away is the testing. It's such an inconvenience and I'm not convinced it 'proves' whether or not one is infectious when they get on a ship anyway since it occurs 2 days earlier...... 

Totally agree about getting back to normal and no more testing.  Just make everyone be vaccinated who is on the ship and that's it.  It is stressful to think about B2B2B2.... and having to possibly leave after looking forward to it all year, let alone to not being able to pack your stuff up if you do test positive.  

[HaveDogWillTravel]

On 1/18/2022 at 4:16 PM, mellon1 said:

 

Totally agree about getting back to normal and no more testing.  Just make everyone be vaccinated who is on the ship and that's it.  It is stressful to think about B2B2B2.... and having to possibly leave after looking forward to it all year, let alone to not being able to pack your stuff up if you do test positive.  

You absolutely get to pack up your things if you test positive.  You will isolate in a balcony room. You will have full range of all dining room options sent to your cabin. Adult beverages if desired. Princess  protocols are stricter than other lines and they have required masking indoors far longer than any other line. The passenger culture is much more amendable to actually following the rules. There are threads here with multiple first person accounts of what happens that clearly demonstrate Princess treats you well should you test positive while on their ships. 
 

If you want to see what happens with vaccination only just read the NCL, Celebrity and RCI news and forums. A complete disaster, cancelled & terminated cruises. 

[HaveDogWillTravel]

52 minutes ago, Dds1 said:

So wearing a mask lessens the effects when someone catches Covid?  Fascinating..didn’t know that. Oh..and most experts agree cloth masks are essentially useless, especially against omicron..so there is that….

 

 

Almost everyone wears 95’s on Princess Cruises out of SF. Princess strongly recommends them in the FAQs. 95’s reduce viral loads. And yes reducing viral load reduces the risk of being symptomatic should you be infected. This has been well documented and consistent throughout the entire pandemic. 

[iamaqt2]

49 minutes ago, HaveDogWillTravel said:

You absolutely get to pack up your things if you test positive.  You will isolate in a balcony room. You will have full range of all dining room options sent to your cabin. Adult beverages if desired. Princess  protocols are stricter than other lines and they have required masking indoors far longer than any other line. The passenger culture is much more amendable to actually following the rules. There are threads here with multiple first person accounts of what happens that clearly demonstrate Princess treats you well should you test positive while on their ships. 
 

If you want to see what happens with vaccination only just read the NCL, Celebrity and RCI news and forums. A complete disaster, cancelled & terminated cruises. 

 

44 minutes ago, HaveDogWillTravel said:

Almost everyone wears 95’s on Princess Cruises out of SF. Princess strongly recommends them in the FAQs. 95’s reduce viral loads. And yes reducing viral load reduces the risk of being symptomatic should you be infected. This has been well documented and consistent throughout the entire pandemic. 

HaveDogWillTravel... 
It's been fairly well documented that not everyone who tests positive will quarantine onboard.  And I am a healthcare worker and will NOT be wearing an N95 onboard.  Unless that thing has been fit tested, it won't be any better than my Level 3 ASTI mask with a foam nose guard to prevent my glasses from fogging.  
I get that not everyone has access to medical grade masks, but telling people that an N 95 mask will protect them is not true.  And those things suck to breathe in.

[Ride-The-Waves]

6 hours ago, iamaqt2 said:

 

HaveDogWillTravel... 
It's been fairly well documented that not everyone who tests positive will quarantine onboard.  And I am a healthcare worker and will NOT be wearing an N95 onboard.  Unless that thing has been fit tested, it won't be any better than my Level 3 ASTI mask with a foam nose guard to prevent my glasses from fogging.  
I get that not everyone has access to medical grade masks, but telling people that an N 95 mask will protect them is not true.  And those things suck to breathe in.

Spouse and I wear our KN95s when exiting the car anywhere we go.  Yes - they take a bit to get use to, but the safety and the fit is the reason they work.  

[Ride-The-Waves]

The real problem has not been the CDC requirements or the protocols set up by most of the cruise lines.  The real problem has been enforcing protocols on board.  Scanning CC one continuously reads of so  many instances where passengers flaunt protocols.  "You can't make me wear a mask!"  "You can't make me distance from others!" "I will force myself into an elevator no matter how many people are already on board."  Its sad, really, that people have such little regard for themselves and for others.  Follow the protocols, were a mask, be kind to others, and this will be over faster.  Don't, and we will still be suffering through thee protocols next year and the year after.  The good news is that most people on Princess ships are courteous and follow protocols.  The horror stories on the Royal Caribbean and Norwegian threads are scary.

[USCcruisecrazy]

27 minutes ago, Ride-The-Waves said:

Spouse and I wear our KN95s when exiting the car anywhere we go.  Yes - they take a bit to get use to, but the safety and the fit is the reason they work.  

You do realize that a KN95 mask is not fitted and is only slightly appreciable from a cloth mask.  But the real issue is why does the cruise line require them at all if everyone is vaccinated?  They will ultimately make no to little difference besides in the mind's eye!!   

[HaveDogWillTravel]

7 hours ago, iamaqt2 said:

 

HaveDogWillTravel... 
It's been fairly well documented that not everyone who tests positive will quarantine onboard.  And I am a healthcare worker and will NOT be wearing an N95 onboard.  Unless that thing has been fit tested, it won't be any better than my Level 3 ASTI mask with a foam nose guard to prevent my glasses from fogging.  
I get that not everyone has access to medical grade masks, but telling people that an N 95 mask will protect them is not true.  And those things suck to breathe in.

Hi there iamaqt2 I know some  positive testing crew might be transferred to a support ship mid cruise (the Ruby used the Crown and one  of the Royal class ships this month-I forget which one the Captain announced). However unless a passenger needs medical care in a hospital they are quarantined on board & not taken off the ship. At least this is what the medical crew told me when went to deck 4 and asked about it a little over a week ago. And it is what happened to the one passenger who tested positive on our Jan 6 sailing on day 2. 
Where did you read that passengers on Princess were being quarantined off the ship mid cruise?  
 

I can’t find anything on line about Level 3 ASTI masks. The closest I found was this. https://shop.demetech.us/collections/surgical-mask-astm-level-3/products/surgical-mask-astm-level-3?gclid=EAIaIQobChMIloLq9srA9QIVAz6tBh2aTAafEAAYAiAAEgLO__D_BwE&variant=40938043113648
 

I am not telling anyone what to wear I simply said what Princess has strongly recommended in the FAQs. I also simply reported what I actually experienced on the Ruby between Jan 6 and the 16th in terms of what  people wore. And yes 95s reduce viral load. I am not making any comparisons here about what’s good, better or best. I am just stating a well know fact.  
 My KN95s have a bendable foam nose guard too and are actually easier to breathe through than some of the 4 layer high thread count cloth masks I’ve made. Any (reasonably good) mask is better than no mask for reducing viral load in an enclosed room with a lot of people. 
 

. @USCcruisecrazy Reading the Celebrity, RCI & NCL boards on CC quickly gave me an understanding of what I consider (you may feel differently and that’s fine) to be a “less than” experience that comes with lax masking. I think it’s great that cruisers are reporting what the experience is actually like on the cruise lines. That way folks can do a little reading and choose the line that fits with what they are looking for. And with many lines having very flexible cancellation policies one can move to a different line easier now than before. I’m not being snarky I really think different people are looking for different experiences on a cruise. 
 

@Ride-The-WavesI have sailed 37 days since the restart on 3 different Princess ships. I can count on one hand the number of times I personally encountered the bad behavior you described. However, on the boards for other cruise lines I have certainly seen that discussed too frequently for my likings. Hence my continued booking on Princess.  

[ChangeOrder]

9 hours ago, HaveDogWillTravel said:

You absolutely get to pack up your things if you test positive.  You will isolate in a balcony room. You will have full range of all dining room options sent to your cabin. Adult beverages if desired. Princess  protocols are stricter than other lines and they have required masking indoors far longer than any other line.

They were talking about the CBP required debarkation and testing mid-B2B. If you test positive in the terminal will Princess allow you to re-board to pack up your stuff, and then shuffle off to quarantine? I doubt it, so that probably results in you waiting as your stateroom attendant empties the room for you.

 

Might be worth (if you can find the stock anywhere) to bring a bunch of the cheap rapid test swabs with you so you can self check the night before. 

[Daniel A]

15 minutes ago, ChangeOrder said:

They were talking about the CBP required debarkation and testing mid-B2B. If you test positive in the terminal will Princess allow you to re-board to pack up your stuff, and then shuffle off to quarantine? I doubt it, so that probably results in you waiting as your stateroom attendant empties the room for you.

 

Might be worth (if you can find the stock anywhere) to bring a bunch of the cheap rapid test swabs with you so you can self check the night before. 

I may be wrong, but I think on a B2B you're not tested in the terminal, you are tested the night before the end of the first segement of the B2B so you would still be on board the ship when the results come in.  Maybe somebody who has actually done B2Bs could confirm or deny my impression.
 

[GonzoWCS]

On 1/18/2022 at 8:28 AM, Daniel A said:

 

But for now, their bark is worse than their bite.  The teeth have been extracted from the CSO.  👨‍⚕️

But all it takes in a swipe of the pen to put it right back in place....