Harmony Just Caused Space X launch Cancellation

[DirtyDawg]

Should we have an over/under on the size of the bill Elon will be sending Bayley?

💵💵💵 😉

[F27TW]

20 minutes ago, Ginlyn said:

 

 

God, thats an ugly ship. 

 

 

[kelleherdl]

Harmony was in the exclusion zone.  It’s a MARITIME exclusion zone to the southeast of the port.  Enough blame to go around from Port Captain to Coast Guard to Harmony captain.  This is a disgrace to the cruise industry.

[wayne_trisha]

22 minutes ago, Ginlyn said:

It wasn’t Harmony but MSC.  I was on the beach waiting for the launch.

It was definitely Harmony OTS.  

[DirtyDawg]

27 minutes ago, taglovestocruise said:

NASA estimates that each scrub costs $500,000 in lost fuel,and $700,000 to pay for the extra workforce needed for launch attempts. Onthese occasions NASA personnel are deployed around the world, including atvarious transatlantic abort sites where the shuttle might land in case of anemergency.    Spacex is a deep discount operation so total launch delay is around 1 million. 

Should we have an over/under on the bill Elon will be sending Bayley?

😉

[DirtyDawg]

10 minutes ago, kelleherdl said:

Harmony was in the exclusion zone.  It’s a MARITIME exclusion zone to the southeast of the port.  Enough blame to go around from Port Captain to Coast Guard to Harmony captain.  This is a disgrace to the cruise industry.

Costa Concordia was a disgrace to the cruise industry.

This was like Mahomes getting intercepted today in OT. Costly and disappointing for sure, but nowhere close to a disgrace. 

 

Edited January 31, 2022 by DirtyDawg

[matj2000]

How many threads can we start on this one??

[Jimbo]

14 minutes ago, matj2000 said:

How many threads can we start on this one??

sky's the limit

[klfrodo]

37 minutes ago, matj2000 said:

How many threads can we start on this one??

As many as people want Kevin.

Does it affect you negatively?

[shof515]

According to MarineTraffic, this line is the Harmony past track

 

 

Edited January 31, 2022 by shof515

[OnTheJourney]

4 hours ago, F27TW said:

God, thats an ugly ship. 

Have to agree. These megaships / floating hotels don't really look all that nice. The older, smaller cruise ships looked nicer, I think anyway. 

[molly361]

8 hours ago, Ginlyn said:

It wasn’t Harmony but MSC.  I was on the beach waiting for the launch.

 

7 hours ago, wayne_trisha said:

It was definitely Harmony OTS.  

According to the news and photos here in Central Florida it was the MSC ship

[Rayhorn]

It was definitely harmony. I just looked at the launch hazard area in the notice to mariners. The MSC ship was in the harbor channel at the time of the abort. The harbor was not in the launch hazard area. However, harmony just crossed over the border of the hazard area at the time of the scrub. Harmony could have been fine if she had traveled more south until the maritime exclusion zone expired (after rocket landed) but it seemed to not alter course from its normal, direct course. 
 

The purple box is the maritime exclusion zone. I used marine traffic to show the position of the two vessels at abort time. 
 

[chengkp75]

11 hours ago, LB_NJ said:

I wonder if they will make Royal pay for the cost of the delay?

No, there is a potential fine to the US government of up to $100k for violation, and $200k for willful violation.

10 hours ago, kelleherdl said:

Harmony was in the exclusion zone.  It’s a MARITIME exclusion zone to the southeast of the port.  Enough blame to go around from Port Captain to Coast Guard to Harmony captain.  This is a disgrace to the cruise industry.

Not sure why you think the "Port Captain" (do you mean Harbormaster?) is to blame.  Once outside the port limits, he has no authority.  And the USCG?  Unless they were not broadcasting the required "Notice to Mariners" outlining the exclusion zone, which they do every 5 minutes for 2 hours before the exclusion zone became active, on the international distress channel VHF 16, which every ship is required to monitor at all times, then the USCG has no blame.  This falls directly on the Captain of the ship, and no one else.

[kelleherdl]

1 hour ago, chengkp75 said:

No, there is a potential fine to the US government of up to $100k for violation, and $200k for willful violation.

Not sure why you think the "Port Captain" (do you mean Harbormaster?) is to blame.  Once outside the port limits, he has no authority.  And the USCG?  Unless they were not broadcasting the required "Notice to Mariners" outlining the exclusion zone, which they do every 5 minutes for 2 hours before the exclusion zone became active, on the international distress channel VHF 16, which every ship is required to monitor at all times, then the USCG has no blame.  This falls directly on the Captain of the ship, and no one else.

I actually apologize for including the Port and the Coast Guard.  I guess I wanted to blunt my concern about the ship captain’ lack of attention to the exclusion zone. We down here get the Brevard County EOC and local warnings from the Coast Guard before all launches.  Thank you chengkp75 for being being strident in placing the potential blame.  
 

As an aside, both ship’s passengers were cheated out on observing what would have been a magnificent start to their cruise.  The launch was scheduled right after sunset.  This is the best time to see beautiful color changes.

[wayne_trisha]

4 hours ago, molly361 said:

 

According to the news and photos here in Central Florida it was the MSC ship

 

1 hour ago, Rayhorn said:

It was definitely harmony. I just looked at the launch hazard area in the notice to mariners. The MSC ship was in the harbor channel at the time of the abort. The harbor was not in the launch hazard area. However, harmony just crossed over the border of the hazard area at the time of the scrub. Harmony could have been fine if she had traveled more south until the maritime exclusion zone expired (after rocket landed) but it seemed to not alter course from its normal, direct course. 
 

The purple box is the maritime exclusion zone. I used marine traffic to show the position of the two vessels at abort time. 
 

I am the creator of this map. I worked last night in the room conducting sea surveillance but I am on the air side. We definitely were not watching football.

[lovesthebeach2]

The Orlando sentinel wrote in todays paper that both harmony and an MSC ship were in the path….. the MSC was in the Port Channel, Harmony was offshore.

[Rayhorn]

5 minutes ago, wayne_trisha said:

 

I am the creator of this map. I worked last night in the room conducting sea surveillance but I am on the air side.

That’s awesome. My knowledge of the maritime stuff is extremely basic. However as a former airline pilot, TFRs I understand. I’ve heard many calls on guard for pilots (almost always private aircraft) busting TFRs and it always amuses me. Some people never check the NOTAMs. Your friendly neighborhood F16 will wake you up pretty quick. That’s very cool to hear of someone on the other side. Anyway….waaay off topic. 😜

[wayne_trisha]

13 minutes ago, Rayhorn said:

That’s awesome. My knowledge of the maritime stuff is extremely basic. However as a former airline pilot, TFRs I understand. I’ve heard many calls on guard for pilots (almost always private aircraft) busting TFRs and it always amuses me. Some people never check the NOTAMs. Your friendly neighborhood F16 will wake you up pretty quick. That’s very cool to hear of someone on the other side. Anyway….waaay off topic. 😜

These launches with southern trajectories have hazard areas hugging the coast for quite a distance. Easy enough for a fishing boat to end up in the hazard area. I never expected a cruise ship. I also know the NOTMARs (notice to mariners) and NOTAMs (notice to airmen) were published days in advance because I made the requests and received responses 5 days before the Thursday launch attempt and they covered through today's launch attempt. 

[wayne_trisha]

37 minutes ago, lovesthebeach2 said:

The Orlando sentinel wrote in todays paper that both harmony and an MSC ship were in the path….. the MSC was in the Port Channel, Harmony was offshore.

It was not MSC. The port channel is not in the hazard area.

[chengkp75]

12 minutes ago, wayne_trisha said:

I also know the NOTMARs (notice to mariners) and NOTAMs (notice to airmen) were published days in advance

And the cruise ships in particular receive NOTMAR's automatically via satellite, straight to the navigation officer, and as I noted, the USCG announces these as "Securete, Securete, Securete" announcements that every bridge on every ship receives.

[F27TW]

How theatrical ..  "launch scrubbed"   .. they couldn't just wait a little?

[chengkp75]

10 minutes ago, F27TW said:

How theatrical ..  "launch scrubbed"   .. they couldn't just wait a little?

Probably because if launched outside the proper "window", the multi-million dollar satellite will not enter the proper orbit and be unable to fulfill it's intended function.  The exclusion zone was only active for 70 minutes or so, that is the launch window.

Edited January 31, 2022 by chengkp75

[BecciBoo]

Into each life a little rain must fall🙄

[alfaeric]

What I'm wondering is how did anyone miss the problem that ships come and go on a schedule from that port?  It can't be a surprise to Space X that Port Canaveral is a cruise port, which has a pretty regular schedule.  So did the ships ignore the request, or did the request not arrive in time to change plans?