If you're a frequent Silversea passenger, read this!

[machotspur]

37 minutes ago, Tothesunset said:

SS will thrive, I'm sure. But it will do so without me. That's not a threat or a fit of pique. There are plenty of alternatives. 

 

I'm not sure there are - at least for a certain sector of potential clients.

 

Over the past 20 years or so we have been reasonably prolific cruisers with Silversea, Seabourn and Regent. We also had 3 bookings with Crystal at the time of their demise.

 

We have fallen in & out of love with all of the above in that time. For example we ditched Silversea some 8 years ago as we found the product to be dated, poorly maintained, and far from a luxury experience. We subsequently enjoyed various cruises on the later Seabourn ships and also 'bling central' - Regent - and found them to be far superior in many ways to the Silversea offer at that time.

 

HOWEVER - last month we enjoyed an inaugural cruise in a Silver Suite on Silver Dawn and were blown away by the ship, the suite, the F&B  etc. A a result we now have 5 further bookings with Silversea, two with Seabourn and at the time of writing none with Regent.

 

To our mind the competition to Silversea has reduced significantly :-

- Crystal are no more

- Seabourn has fallen way behind in terms of the ship offer, specifically the very limited F&B - the ships are dated and they are currently trying to offload the company to a Saudi Pension fund.

- The Regent itineraries are very limited/conventional compared to Silversea, they are not in the expedition market, their older ships are in poor condition, and the 'blingy' new ones are not to everyone's taste (hands up we rather like them !).

 

Apart from that there are the more niche operators, such as Scenic, Hapag Lloyd and Ponant, plus those that are in the earlier days such as Explora, Emerald, Ritz Carlton. IMHO none of these are currently in a position to offer much of an appeal to the majority of current - or potential - Silversea clients.

 

As alluded to at the beginning a few years ago I was the most dissatisfied and critical (ex)guest of Silversea.  However now I believe that they are in the very best position to meet the needs of a large proportion of the potential market - and according to our TA - the biggest seller of Silversea in the UK -  their product is selling extremely well (irrespective of FCC etc).  The competition is IMHO very weak. 

 

Silversea are a much larger company/fleet than they were say 10 years ago. They have invested a substantial amount in new builds and clearly wish to see a return on this. Their current pricing & marketing is unlikely to be a short term decision, bearing in mind the long term strategy being adopted by RCCL. 

 

So - it is surely - you pays your money and makes your choice. I believe that little is going to change -  in the medium term at least.      

 

          

  

   

  

[Tothesunset]

7 minutes ago, machotspur said:

 

I'm not sure there are - at least for a certain sector of potential clients.

 

          

  

   

  

Of course. Just as there are alternatives for those not in that certain sector. 

 

The thread was started to point out the vagaries of the new booking system, not to compare and contrast the SS product with their competitors. 

 

None of which alters the original premise that the new booking system is a major step away from that which it replaced and is disadvantageous to those who like to make their own arrangements. 

[les37b]

2 hours ago, Stumblefoot said:

Not really, IMHO, for such a close in booking.  
 

D2D is all algorithmic.  So, the P2P manual override price allows SS to discount without having to pay refunds to any passengers who booked D2D previously.

 

As such, P2P in the case of the voyage you cite entices those folks who do not plan in advance to getaway and sail at the last minute.  At this late date, it would be very odd for a couple to book the D2D fare as the full fare would be required at the time of booking anyway, thereby significantly reducing the risk of the P2P fare over the next three weeks.

 

This particular sailing is the one I've seen advertised D2D for £2699 (P2P is £2249)

 

I've never really seen discounts in main stream agents (£1 or £200 maybe, but not these levels. The P2P is £100 less than the direct price.) I'm fairly sure Rosebud has booked.

 

Not sure how it pans out with your pricing patterns, but it's been advertised for at least 3 weeks and is still available at those prices. Great deal..... I'd have snapped it up, but have another sailing in 7 days and ironically leave Stockholm 2 days before this sailing.

 

Genuinely never seen such a heavy SS discount...... And would even get a further VS discount. I'm guessing it's not selling too well, even with this TA discount. I didn't expect to still see it advertised, but it is.

 

 

 

 

[Stumblefoot]

1 hour ago, les37b said:

Genuinely never seen such a heavy SS discount...... And would even get a further VS discount.

Interesting to know this is the particular voyage you were referencing in your earlier post of the same topic.  I’ve never seen SS reduce prices for an exact (apples-to-apples) fare category, because they want to avoid at all

costs issuing a refund under their Silver Privilege fare guarantee. So, what you’ve seen is very unique indeed. The price here remains $6,000/pp.

[ak1004]

1 hour ago, les37b said:

 

This particular sailing is the one I've seen advertised D2D for £2699 (P2P is £2249)

 

I've never really seen discounts in main stream agents (£1 or £200 maybe, but not these levels. The P2P is £100 less than the direct price.) I'm fairly sure Rosebud has booked.

 

Not sure how it pans out with your pricing patterns, but it's been advertised for at least 3 weeks and is still available at those prices. Great deal..... I'd have snapped it up, but have another sailing in 7 days and ironically leave Stockholm 2 days before this sailing.

 

Genuinely never seen such a heavy SS discount...... And would even get a further VS discount. I'm guessing it's not selling too well, even with this TA discount. I didn't expect to still see it advertised, but it is.

 

 

 

 

Which sailing is it?

[Stumblefoot]

6 minutes ago, ak1004 said:

Which sailing is it?

As reported above by Tothesunset; 

 

[les37b]

7 hours ago, Stumblefoot said:

Interesting to know this is the particular voyage you were referencing in your earlier post of the same topic.  I’ve never seen SS reduce prices for an exact (apples-to-apples) fare category, because they want to avoid at all

costs issuing a refund under their Silver Privilege fare guarantee. So, what you’ve seen is very unique indeed. The price here remains $6,000/pp.

 

I've emailed you the deal so you can see. It is pretty unique I agree. Gutted I can't take up the deal. I fly home from Stockholm 2 days before this one starts in the same port. (Which is a confidence, but could have worked out nicely ..... Especially with free laundry! lol.)

 

Edit ... Not so unique after all. I had thought the TTS cruise was a Stockholm starter. It isn't. The one on the 28 June is though... And priced the same (well £2709... So £10 more if we are splitting hairs!) Luckily I didn't make the mistake and book... I'd have had a bigger wait than anticipated!)

 

On that note and since the thread has evolved from VS dissatisfaction at the  perceived watering down of VS perks unless the inflated prices agreed, to one of SS can justify and will gain new guests from Seabourn so cheerio..... Market forces etc.

 

If free laundry were removed.... How would this change be viewed? Would you still book if it were? I know it's hypothetical and I'm not suggesting it will be.... Just curious how far those supporting market force justification would let things go before just saying "No".

 

Funnily, I'd be less inclined to bulk at this, than I am on the P2P changes. I'd certainly miss it though.

Edited May 31, 2022 by les37b

[commodoredave]

On 5/30/2022 at 3:36 PM, machotspur said:

I believe that little is going to change -  in the medium term at least.      

I would have agreed with you until I participated yesterday in a webinar organized by my travel agency with folks from Explora Journeys (apparently, they are doing lots of these). The presentation was the best I have seen in several years, and painted a very attractive picture of Explora as a cruise line that will rival just about any competitor afloat when it comes to luxury, food, innovation and service. The things that really struck me were the "Crystal Cruises-like" culture they are building (even referenced Crystal), the impressive space to passenger ratios, the number of free alternative restaurant options, expanded times in port (like Azamara), and the innovative design of the ship. I also like that shore excursions are not included although they do have a range of intensive port options for sale. Explora will also have a more relaxed dress code that Silversea (country club casual), which  appeals to me more than formal (I like to wear a jacket/tie to dinner, but not a tuxedo or suit). 

So, I have decided to give Explora Journeys a try next year after they enter the market in May.  If my experience turns out to be as good as promised, and if Silversea doesn't change their approach with D2D/P2P, the 3 cruises I currently have booked with Silversea could well be my last. And the same might apply to others.

[pf778c]

18 hours ago, commodoredave said:

The things that really struck me were the "Crystal Cruises-like" culture they are building (even referenced Crystal)

I just peeked at their website and downloaded their brochure and agree they look very tempting, especially their single supplements!  The only thing that gives me second thoughts, is that they seem to be targeting families with children, particularly small children and infants as a customer base.

Was that the case with Crystal?

Was that addressed during the webinar?

I ask because one thing I prefer about Silversea that thankfully, does not seem to be changing, is that although they do not forbid children outright, they do not overtly solicit them.  Children are rare onboard Silversea, and when found, tend to be at least as well-behaved as the average guest in my experience.

[spinnaker2]

Explora is a baby of MSC. 

[rosepark]

Les is right. We did indeed book the Copenhagen to Stockholm voyage in August and it was shown on the SS website at a very much reduced base cost compared to that at which it had been originally advertised. We booked through an agent who seems to have further discounted it and chose D2D as that actually worked out cheaper than the P2P price, taking the cost of flights and transfers into account. We also reckon that if we have D2D, SS will get us there somehow, even if the flight is cancelled. Having said that, they are flying us with SAS, which I gather has a fairly poor business class product but the flight times are short and I'll try to be a brave girl and cope.

Rp

 

 

[commodoredave]

5 hours ago, pf778c said:

I just peeked at their website and downloaded their brochure and agree they look very tempting, especially their single supplements!  The only thing that gives me second thoughts, is that they seem to be targeting families with children, particularly small children and infants as a customer base.

Was that the case with Crystal?

Was that addressed during the webinar?

I ask because one thing I prefer about Silversea that thankfully, does not seem to be changing, is that although they do not forbid children outright, they do not overtly solicit them.  Children are rare onboard Silversea, and when found, tend to be at least as well-behaved as the average guest in my experience.

That is a valid concern. I do not recall Crystal making an aggressive pitch for families with small children, and during my 3 cruises with them there was never an issue with children. As for Explora, they made a big thing in their presentation about having 82 "multi-generation-friendly connecting suites".  I don't know how that compares with other ships that size (about 461 cabins), but I personally will not stay in a cabin with connecting doors as I find them noisier.

[commodoredave]

3 hours ago, spinnaker2 said:

Explora is a baby of MSC. 

Yes it is. I was surprised to learn that MSC is privately owned Swiss company and that their ships are fully paid for. It seems they are a huge shipping company that has been around for a very long time.

[pf778c]

11 minutes ago, commodoredave said:

As for Explora, they made a big thing in their presentation about having 82 "multi-generation-friendly connecting suites".

Well, I'll wait and see.  There have been bumps with Silversea/RCCL; similarly I'm sure there will be bumps with Explora/MSC.  They'll be sailing soon enough so it's only a matter of time to see how it pans out.

 

Door-to-door isn't that earthshattering of a development as I see it, since when I first began sailing, airfare, pre-cruise hotel, and ship transfers were included in the fare and now air transfers and excursions have been included as well.  If Silversea can get the credits worked out, or offer a port-to-port option that does not penalize, it will become much more palatable.  I'm not a huge fan of included excursions since they tend to be of the type where one experiences a destination from the inside of a coach, and I much prefer to arrange something private to gambol about the local countryside on horseback, but on a week-long cruise, that adds up to about $300 - not the end of the world, and I can usually find at least a few that grab my interest!

 

Thank you for the additional info.

[spinnaker2]

2 hours ago, commodoredave said:

Yes it is. I was surprised to learn that MSC is privately owned Swiss company and that their ships are fully paid for. It seems they are a huge shipping company that has been around for a very long time.

Yes MSC is Mediterranean shipping company. 

You can see their shipping containers everywhere. Very successful company.

I have sailed on the the Splendida in the Yacht club twice and it was just lovely. 

The only problem is that the vessels are huge and we pretty much sequestered ourselves in the one area.

I understand that this smaller ship foray into exploration longer cruises is to compete in the market.

 

[Tothesunset]

10 hours ago, pf778c said:

If Silversea can get the credits worked out, or offer a port-to-port option that does not penalize, it will become much more palatable. 

Nail

Head

Hit

[commodoredave]

23 hours ago, pf778c said:

Well, I'll wait and see.  There have been bumps with Silversea/RCCL; similarly I'm sure there will be bumps with Explora/MSC.  They'll be sailing soon enough so it's only a matter of time to see how it pans out.

 

Door-to-door isn't that earthshattering of a development as I see it, since when I first began sailing, airfare, pre-cruise hotel, and ship transfers were included in the fare and now air transfers and excursions have been included as well.  If Silversea can get the credits worked out, or offer a port-to-port option that does not penalize, it will become much more palatable.  I'm not a huge fan of included excursions since they tend to be of the type where one experiences a destination from the inside of a coach, and I much prefer to arrange something private to gambol about the local countryside on horseback, but on a week-long cruise, that adds up to about $300 - not the end of the world, and I can usually find at least a few that grab my interest!

 

Thank you for the additional info.

I agree that if SS can can get the credits/benefits worked out where I don't feel penalized booking P2P, they will keep my business. I don't care for D2D as I almost always prefer to book my own air, hotels and airport transportation for a long list of valid reasons.  I also agree on the shore excursions. I've been on 76 cruises, which means there are many ports/cities that I've been to multiple times and have already exhausted the offered shore excursions. Like you, I prefer to go ashore without the groups and buses, and instead design my own private excursion, sometimes with another couple. 

[les37b]

On 6/8/2022 at 6:04 PM, rosepark said:

Les is right. We did indeed book the Copenhagen to Stockholm voyage in August and it was shown on the SS website at a very much reduced base cost compared to that at which it had been originally advertised. We booked through an agent who seems to have further discounted it and chose D2D as that actually worked out cheaper than the P2P price, taking the cost of flights and transfers into account. We also reckon that if we have D2D, SS will get us there somehow, even if the flight is cancelled. Having said that, they are flying us with SAS, which I gather has a fairly poor business class product but the flight times are short and I'll try to be a brave girl and cope.

Rp

 

 

 

Glad you got that sorted. We would have booked on one of them ourselves, but we booked a replacement as a swap for our cancelled Muse trip to Japan to fill the gap.

[crusinbanjo]

On 6/9/2022 at 3:18 PM, commodoredave said:

I agree that if SS can can get the credits/benefits worked out where I don't feel penalized booking P2P, they will keep my business. I don't care for D2D as I almost always prefer to book my own air, hotels and airport transportation for a long list of valid reasons.  I also agree on the shore excursions. I've been on 76 cruises, which means there are many ports/cities that I've been to multiple times and have already exhausted the offered shore excursions. Like you, I prefer to go ashore without the groups and buses, and instead design my own private excursion, sometimes with another couple. 

Same here.  Mrs Banjo and I have used SS hotels and air on occasions. But generally prefer to book our own.  We are hoping these things get sorted out before we return to cruising. (Hopefully in 2023).

[Silver Spectre]

On 6/8/2022 at 9:05 PM, commodoredave said:

That is a valid concern. I do not recall Crystal making an aggressive pitch for families with small children, and during my 3 cruises with them there was never an issue with children. As for Explora, they made a big thing in their presentation about having 82 "multi-generation-friendly connecting suites".  I don't know how that compares with other ships that size (about 461 cabins), but I personally will not stay in a cabin with connecting doors as I find them noisier.

I’m struggling to understand the comparison. 461 cabins is huge compared to SS!

[commodoredave]

16 hours ago, Silver Spectre said:

I’m struggling to understand the comparison. 461 cabins is huge compared to SS!

Depends on the SS ship. Silver Nova carries 728 pax in 364 cabins, which is closer to the size of Explora and in the same mid-size class. The advantage that SS has is that it also offers smaller ships in its fleet, although they tend to be the older ones. 

Now, if one prefers smaller ships in the luxury class, there's always Ponant and SeaDream to choose from, among others.

 

[Silver Spectre]

1 hour ago, commodoredave said:

Depends on the SS ship. Silver Nova carries 728 pax in 364 cabins, which is closer to the size of Explora and in the same mid-size class. The advantage that SS has is that it also offers smaller ships in its fleet, although they tend to be the older ones. 

Now, if one prefers smaller ships in the luxury class, there's always Ponant and SeaDream to choose from, among others.

 

That is still approx 200 more guests than the Nova and more than a 50% increase over the capacity of the Muse class ships. That is at least three steps too far for us.

[commodoredave]

20 hours ago, Silver Spectre said:

That is still approx 200 more guests than the Nova and more than a 50% increase over the capacity of the Muse class ships. That is at least three steps too far for us.

We all have preferences/limits for the size of ship that we prefer. As someone who has sailed with Regent and Crystal about a dozen times, I am comfortable with the larger luxury ships and the advantages they provide (more space for activities, entertainment, more stable for trans-oceanic crossings, etc.). On the other hand, I also appreciate smaller ships and the benefits they provide (fewer people, staff remember your name, better access to smaller ports, etc.). At the end of the day, as long as a luxury ship carries between 100 to 900 people, I consider it competition for my cruise dollar and will judge it on a wide range of features including price, value, service, etc. As they say, to each, his/her own.

[CruisinPashmina]

Old Dog, new tricks? Nope, I’ll stick with Silversea.

[commodoredave]

8 hours ago, CruisinPashmina said:

Old Dog, new tricks? Nope, I’ll stick with Silversea.

Depending on how P2P pax are treated in future, I may well stick with SS as well. But I may also be incented to try new cruise lines like Explora and Atlas, or other luxury lines I have not yet tried like Ritz, Ponant, and Viking. The good news is there are plenty of SS competitors out there, and the ones that treat me the best will get most of my future business.