If you're a frequent Silversea passenger, read this!

[Not a Georgia Peach]

We have been on Viking - they are not in the luxury category.

[natshala]

Crystal refugee here. I decided to try SS. I booked PtoP a year in advance. It is a transatlantic sailing out of Ft. Lauderdale. DtoD didn’t make sense since I live in FL and drive to the pier. I’ll admit I didn’t fully understand this concept. So now, I need to cancel this cruise—9 months in advance. I’m told my ENTIRE booking deposit (15% of cruise cost) is NONREFUNDABLE. No exceptions. No FCC.

 

I was duped but take responsibility for my lack of understanding of their harsh policy. I’ve never seen such an unforgiving policy on any other line.

 

I will never book Silversea again.

 

So, think twice when booking PtoP.  

[ak1004]

1 minute ago, natshala said:

Crystal refugee here. I decided to try SS. I booked PtoP a year in advance. It is a transatlantic sailing out of Ft. Lauderdale. DtoD didn’t make sense since I live in FL and drive to the pier. I’ll admit I didn’t fully understand this concept. So now, I need to cancel this cruise—9 months in advance. I’m told my ENTIRE booking deposit (15% of cruise cost) is NONREFUNDABLE. No exceptions. No FCC.

 

I was duped but take responsibility for my lack of understanding of their harsh policy. I’ve never seen such an unforgiving policy on any other line.

 

I will never book Silversea again.

 

So, think twice when booking PtoP.  

 

I believe it is indicated very clearly on their website that with P2P the 15% deposit is non refundable. We were in the same boat, but decided to take the risk. You can always insure the deposit payment only. I agree that it's very harsh, but it's up to us to decide if we accept the risk or not. I don't see where it's SS fault.

[natshala]

5 minutes ago, ak1004 said:

 

I believe it is indicated very clearly on their website that with P2P the 15% deposit is non refundable. We were in the same boat, but decided to take the risk. You can always insure the deposit payment only. I agree that it's very harsh, but it's up to us to decide if we accept the risk or not. I don't see where it's SS fault.

 

[natshala]

Just now, natshala said:

I agree, as I said in my post. It is SS policy. It is unreasonably punitive. But, to each his own. I hope you have a great cruise.

 

[Silver Spectre]

9 minutes ago, ak1004 said:

 

I believe it is indicated very clearly on their website that with P2P the 15% deposit is non refundable. We were in the same boat, but decided to take the risk. You can always insure the deposit payment only. I agree that it's very harsh, but it's up to us to decide if we accept the risk or not. I don't see where it's SS fault.

I have to agree, it’s very clear in SS’s T&C’s, so not their fault. Surely good travel insurance, which you are recommended to take out, would cover this eventually.

[cruiseej]

It's not Silversea's fault, as @natshala said. But it is a punitive penalty and it is unusual — so far, at least — in the cruise industry to require such a large non-refundable deposit.

 

(And it's worth keeping in mind that a hypothetical 15% non-refundable deposit on a $1,000 5-day Princess cruise is in a different league than a 15% non-refundable deposit on a Silversea cruise, which typically starts around $10,000 per couple for a 7-day cruise to many times that for longer cruises and higher-level accommodations.)

 

2 hours ago, Silver Spectre said:

Surely good travel insurance, which you are recommended to take out, would cover this eventually.

 

I respectfully disagree. Most travel insurance will not cover people changing their mind about future travel for reasons other than medical ones. And while there are so-called "cancel for any reason" policies, most people avoid them because they are both pricey and cover only a portion of the cost, not the entire amount. (Also, if one wasn't aware the deposit was non-refundable, one likely wouldn't have purchased insurance at the tine of booking; we generally wait until penalties kick in before paying for travel insurance.)

[jimdee3636]

@natshala

I agree in essence with @cruiseejthat Silversea is technically correct in that it did disclose the terms of the booking contract before you signed it (which you don't dispute), but that the policy itself is punitive and outside of industry norms. As someone who previously sailed with Crystal, you seem to be an ideal candidate for Silversea's marketing efforts, but what did they do? They lost a potentially valuable customer for life. And for what? The 15% deposit they pocketed would likely have been exceeded many times over by what you would have paid for future cruises. It's bad business, plain and simple.

[turtlemichael]

Painful as it is, Natasha entered a contract and should have been aware of the conditions. Much like buying most airfares. Whether Silversea changes the policy will depend on the effect it has on the bottom line. Caveat Emptor.

[Host Jazzbeau]

Frankly I scratch my head over this new pricing dichotomy.  Celebrity tried something similar and quickly pulled it back [their 'cruise-only' fares now offer a choice of refundable or non-refundable deposits].  So why, with Silversea newly under the same corporate umbrella, didn't they learn from that?

 

I think [purely my conjecture], that RCG wanted to put its stamp on Silversea and decided to copy the Regent approach.  [I also think that is a huge mistake, because if I wanted to sail on Regent I would have done so...]  But they didn't have the courage to 'just do it,' so they offered this other option.  Along with the almost-hidden option to book D2D and eliminate the things you don't want.

 

The bottom line is it makes booking Silversea too complicated – bad timing that they had already done it before they could read this recent article in the Wall Street Journal Why Complex Pricing Plans Backfire With Consumers [WSJ firewall, but you get the idea]

[ak1004]

12 hours ago, Host Jazzbeau said:

Frankly I scratch my head over this new pricing dichotomy.  Celebrity tried something similar and quickly pulled it back [their 'cruise-only' fares now offer a choice of refundable or non-refundable deposits].  So why, with Silversea newly under the same corporate umbrella, didn't they learn from that?

 

I think [purely my conjecture], that RCG wanted to put its stamp on Silversea and decided to copy the Regent approach.  [I also think that is a huge mistake, because if I wanted to sail on Regent I would have done so...]  But they didn't have the courage to 'just do it,' so they offered this other option.  Along with the almost-hidden option to book D2D and eliminate the things you don't want.

 

The bottom line is it makes booking Silversea too complicated – bad timing that they had already done it before they could read this recent article in the Wall Street Journal Why Complex Pricing Plans Backfire With Consumers [WSJ firewall, but you get the idea]

 

Speaking of Regent.. I just compared few sailings on SS with Regent. For 9-11 nights Mediterranean cruise in 2023, SS average price is around $10k CAD. A comparable 10 nights cruise on Regent is around 14-15k CAD. As far as I can see, the only difference is that Regent includes business class flights and SS economy, but SS gives an option to upgrade to business for $2k CAD. So if you upgrade, they become comparable, and regent is still $2-3k CAD more expensive.

 

Am I missing something?

[Host Jazzbeau]

1 hour ago, ak1004 said:

 

Speaking of Regent.. I just compared few sailings on SS with Regent. For 9-11 nights Mediterranean cruise in 2023, SS average price is around $10k CAD. A comparable 10 nights cruise on Regent is around 14-15k CAD. As far as I can see, the only difference is that Regent includes business class flights and SS economy, but SS gives an option to upgrade to business for $2k CAD. So if you upgrade, they become comparable, and regent is still $2-3k CAD more expensive.

 

Am I missing something?

That's what I have found every time I compare SS D2D with Regent.  I would prefer to arrange my own excursions, but at least the price isn't exorbitant (comparatively).

[ak1004]

2 hours ago, Host Jazzbeau said:

That's what I have found every time I compare SS D2D with Regent.  I would prefer to arrange my own excursions, but at least the price isn't exorbitant (comparatively).

 

And Seaborn comparable cruises are around $7k. When you account for flights and excursions, this is very comparable to SS, maybe slightly cheaper. 

[commodoredave]

2 hours ago, Host Jazzbeau said:

That's what I have found every time I compare SS D2D with Regent.  I would prefer to arrange my own excursions, but at least the price isn't exorbitant (comparatively).

I've sailed about 8 times with Regent, but none since 2012. There are a number of reasons for this, but the bottom line was that I found other luxury lines that provided more value for the price, and that were more closely aligned with my cruise preferences.

[labrasett]

On 6/14/2022 at 5:12 PM, natshala said:

Crystal refugee here. I decided to try SS. I booked PtoP a year in advance. It is a transatlantic sailing out of Ft. Lauderdale. DtoD didn’t make sense since I live in FL and drive to the pier. I’ll admit I didn’t fully understand this concept. So now, I need to cancel this cruise—9 months in advance. I’m told my ENTIRE booking deposit (15% of cruise cost) is NONREFUNDABLE. No exceptions. No FCC.

 

I was duped but take responsibility for my lack of understanding of their harsh policy. I’ve never seen such an unforgiving policy on any other line.

 

I will never book Silversea again.

 

So, think twice when booking PtoP.  

So if I read this correctly you chose PtoP despite the clearly written terms and conditions to book a cruise in a years time and now you have changed your mind about travelling.   Are you sure you cant  transfer the deposit to another cruise as an alternative to losing it.   Personally I dont  understand why anyone would think it is OK to book a cruise or holiday or in fact to place and order for goods or services for sometime in the future and then on a whim (or whatever) change their minds and expect there to be no penalty.   In the past non refundable deposits were common in the travel industry and even today if you book certain airfares they are not refundable and in many cases not even transferable.

[les37b]

17 hours ago, labrasett said:

So if I read this correctly you chose PtoP despite the clearly written terms and conditions to book a cruise in a years time and now you have changed your mind about travelling.   Are you sure you cant  transfer the deposit to another cruise as an alternative to losing it.   Personally I dont  understand why anyone would think it is OK to book a cruise or holiday or in fact to place and order for goods or services for sometime in the future and then on a whim (or whatever) change their minds and expect there to be no penalty.   In the past non refundable deposits were common in the travel industry and even today if you book certain airfares they are not refundable and in many cases not even transferable.

 

Personally I don't understand why the penalty for "changing your mind" which is £120 on all my past and current bookings, is not considered an issue to now be increased to 15% of the total cost. (And that was actually refunded when transferred to a replacement.)

 

What about when Silversea changes its mind and amends start and end points and places it visits?

 

Out of interest, at what % to be non refundable would you consider a change too far? Clearly 15% is an acceptable risk for you to book. What if it was 50 or even 100%?

[labrasett]

 I take the view that if I commit to something I stick to it.   It would take something catastrophic to cause me to cancel a cruise (or almost any commitment) which I had booked.   I would expect only to cancel should an event which would almost certainly be covered by my worldwide annual travel insurance would cover in any case such as death, serious illness etc.   I think les37b you have confirmed my thoughts that it was likely (but I havent checked the ts and cs) that in the event of a change of mind the 15% might be transferred to another booking.  The world of travel is changing, non refundable payments and deposits are required on air fares and many rail fares (in UK).  I am not sure why cruise companies should be any different.  

[Cancun01]

I too am a Crystal refugee. Because of the potential of contacting Covid and being declined boarding etc I  ensured that I read and understood every single  word of SS’s cancellation policies prior to booking (no choice D2D) our recently completed Med cruise.  The declined boarding policies are actually very generous compared to other lines so some of ss’s cancellation policies are very good but the 15% of a ss cruise fare at 9 months out is a bit much. 

 

Regardless of whether one read and understood the cancellation policy of 15% non-refundable for a P2P booking, and whether the cruise was cancelled on a whim or for a good reason there is one fact that has not been mentioned…. chances are that 9 months from sailing provides a large window of opportunity for the cruise line to resell that stateroom non-discounted thus most likely they will “double-dip” for the 15%.    
 

 

Edited June 18, 2022 by Cancun01

[Daveywavey70]

I Understand completely the thinking behind introducing the d2d concept and wanting to encourage people to take them up but cannot comprehend why the p2p conditions have been made so punitive. Encourage and entice people to switch by all means but don’t punish your faithful that don’t wish to take it up. So many SS regulars are true travellers and will often arrange additional adventures to tie in with a cruise and not want to be punished for doing so. I Think the execution of the concept has been very misjudged. This, combined with the apparent incompetence of the team making the arrangements  for land and air doesn’t bode well. Yes the faithful will be shouting “teething troubles” from their towers but I think that’s a little too generous even for a budget line, let alone an ultra luxury one to introduce a poorly thought out and badly executed  policy that alienates and discourages their regulars from booking and leaves them feeling so annoyed that they will walk away from the line for good.

[Silver Spectre]

21 minutes ago, Daveywavey70 said:

I Understand completely the thinking behind introducing the d2d concept and wanting to encourage people to take them up but cannot comprehend why the p2p conditions have been made so punitive. Encourage and entice people to switch by all means but don’t punish your faithful that don’t wish to take it up. So many SS regulars are true travellers and will often arrange additional adventures to tie in with a cruise and not want to be punished for doing so. I Think the execution of the concept has been very misjudged. This, combined with the apparent incompetence of the team making the arrangements  for land and air doesn’t bode well. Yes the faithful will be shouting “teething troubles” from their towers but I think that’s a little too generous even for a budget line, let alone an ultra luxury one to introduce a poorly thought out and badly executed  policy that alienates and discourages their regulars from booking and leaves them feeling so annoyed that they will walk away from the line for good.

I don’t agree with the policy, but it will not and has not stopped me booking. As far as I can see there have only been a couple of posters so far who have stated that their opposition means no more bookings. Considering how few SS cruisers even know about CC, let alone post, that is the nearest drop in the ocean. Only time will tell if it works or not.

[WesW]

We concur Mr. Silver tho we now book just expedition voyages (four in next year) am doing a P2P for Silver Cloud Azores Expediton in September, then D2D for Puerto Williams to Capetown (March 2023) , then b2b, Capetown to Mahe; and then Dublin to Kangerlussauq in June.

[UKCruiseJeff]

A reminder post because I'm concerned that many EU or UK citizens seem to have overlooked that they have enhanced sets of consumer rights that are not enjoyed by US citizens. 

 

In very simple terms if the cruise line makes itinerary changes that the customer believes to be significant then it is probable that the customer may be entitled to a FULL refund ie without any charges or penalties irrespective of the Ts&Cs. I say "probable" because significant is on a case by case basis but it seems to me that if there is a port change that was important to a customer then this is likely to be considered significant by a court but is not guaranteed.  It is irrelevant whether the cause of the change was or was not within the control of the cruise line.

 

If the customer decides not to proceed for any other reason of their choice then the cruiseline is only entitled to make a charge "that is fair".  Case law so far is that "fair" means that the charge must be a demonstrably cost recovery charge and not be profitable. 

 

This is the government's guidance for those that decide to cancel for their own reasons.

 

If your holiday can still legally go ahead, but you decide you want to cancel:

 

• Check what the contract terms and conditions say about cancellations and refunds
• Any applicable pre-existing terms and conditions on cancellation and refunds will apply. These terms must be fair.
• For package holidays, any termination fee charged to you must be appropriate and justifiable by the package holiday organiser
• A term saying no refund is available in any circumstances is likely to be unfair and unenforceable
• Any amount a business can keep must take into account what they are actually losing as a result of you cancelling and not be excessive
• For more information see our information on cancellation under the standard terms and conditions and our open letter to business
• You have a right to a full refund where you decide to cancel your package because ‘unavoidable and extraordinary circumstances’ at the destination significantly affect the holiday you have booked, or your travel there
• If you believe a refund is justified, you may wish to contact Citizens Advice and you have the option of bringing a claim against the company in the relevant court

 

FWIW in preparation for future contention and to minimise "misunderstandings I suggest the following prudent action. 

 

Most cruise customers book specific suites or cabins.  If you do cancel, then a week or two before the cruise start date I would check with a TA and ask the TA to ascertain whether the specific suite/cabin you had booked was now available for reservation.  Make sure your contact is via email so your response is in writing.  If it is confirmed that this suite is now no longer available or if the cruise is fully booked it implies that there is no loss and only a suitable admin charge is appropriate.

 

There is a lot of information on the net with respect to these EU and UK laws and I'm only posting to remind EU and UK citizens that they should not give up these hard won "consumer favourable" rights in the belief that unfair consumer contract terms are enforceable.  I'm concerned tha customers aren't cheated.

 

I do not intend to become embroiled in any debates about the fairness etc but I hope this helps others for future web research.  EU and UK citizens can no longer be "penalised" for the cancellation of packaged holidays. If they do make payments over and above "what is fair" they are needlessly volunterring to do so.

 

Happy travels and good wishes and excvellent eating and drinking all..

 

Jeff

Edited June 19, 2022 by UKCruiseJeff

[forgap]

Well, I finally slogged through this entire thread and it gives some real food for thought.  We will embark on our first SS cruise this summer (booked a year ago before the D to D/P to P nonsense).  We will see where our future cruises take us and with which line.  
 

i have to say, however, that communicating with SS has been a real pain.  We booked through our excellent TA and even she is frustrated with only being able to communicate through email.  We are averaging 4 weeks for each response and we still have unresolved air issues.  Only through the intervention of Ms. Muckerman did we get our original flights sorted out.  Now our return flight has been cancelled and rebooked by BA for the next day.  All the details about the new arrangements are still in limbo.  
 

I'm the type of person who likes to pick up the phone and get the deed done.  SS doesn’t allow that, it seems.  This influences if I will give SS a repeat performance.  However, I may be completely blown away once I experience being on board.  We shall see!  

 

[Bearsparents]

I agree with @forgap.  This is my first SS cruise and first time I had cruise line book flight. I took the D2D option.  It is a real pain.  I am trying to get a better flight going out and no response from SS.  TA keeps checking in with me with no info. I am dealing with a TA and I think she is doing the best I can.  I am hoping my on board experience blows me away.  Plus I hate the My Silversea web design.  It is terrible and I have had issues with it. 

Edited June 19, 2022 by Bearsparents

[Dolcevita Diva]

I will now be likelier to wait till closer to the cruise date as a result of the nonrefundable deposit for the P2P option - it seems that for closer-in voyages that are not selling well, they’re adding P2P or reducing the D2D price substantially because they’ve removed the airfare component (have a hunch that they’re finding close-in airfare too steep).