Using cruise ships as emergency housing in N.Y. Please-this is not about politics

[LawDog61]

I see that N.Y. City is looking at using cruise ships as emergency housing.  My question is ( and please, no discussion about the politics involved) how does the crew not qualify for coverage under U.S. labor laws and work visa requirements as they are not involved in international cruising?   Not sure if the contract with the city will involve food services, but clearly the ship will need bridge officers, engineers, plumbers etc. almost none of whom are qualified to work in the U.S.  Will they have to pay U.S. income taxes (and N.Y. /)

I recall that recently one of the European river cruise companies got busted for not complying with E.U. Labor law. 

[Toofarfromthesea]

8 minutes ago, LawDog61 said:

I see that N.Y. City is looking at using cruise ships as emergency housing.  My question is ( and please, no discussion about the politics involved) how does the crew not qualify for coverage under U.S. labor laws and work visa requirements as they are not involved in international cruising?   Not sure if the contract with the city will involve food services, but clearly the ship will need bridge officers, engineers, plumbers etc. almost none of whom are qualified to work in the U.S.  Will they have to pay U.S. income taxes (and N.Y. /)

I recall that recently one of the European river cruise companies got busted for not complying with E.U. Labor law. 

 

It is an interesting issue for which there should be ample precedence.  The big Salesforce conference that is held in San Francisco every year uses cruise ships as floating hotels since even SF doesn't have enough hotel space for the number of attendees.  I don't know how the issues you raise shook out in that instance but they seem to be comparable issues, with the main difference being duration.

[LawDog61]

I have a suspicion that government will ignore its own labor laws when it’s convenient.

[pris993]

9 minutes ago, LawDog61 said:

I have a suspicion that government will ignore its own labor laws when it’s convenient.

Yes, as a former federal employee, this would be the case.  This is how the feds do business.

[mom says]

And this has anything to do with, you know, cruises or cruising??

 

If you want to ask about emergency housing in NYC, then why not start a thread in Floataway?

Edited October 1, 2022 by mom says

[navybankerteacher]

The whole topic is surely about politics - and as surely not about cruising.

[rkacruiser]

1 hour ago, Toofarfromthesea said:

 

It is an interesting issue for which there should be ample precedence.  The big Salesforce conference that is held in San Francisco every year uses cruise ships as floating hotels since even SF doesn't have enough hotel space for the number of attendees.  I don't know how the issues you raise shook out in that instance but they seem to be comparable issues, with the main difference being duration.

 

Cruise ships have been used as hotel ships in some cities where the Super Bowl has been played when the host city lacks the number of hotel rooms required.  For example:  the Zuiderdam when the game was played in Jacksonville.  

[LawDog61]

2 minutes ago, navybankerteacher said:

The whole topic is surely about politics - and as surely not about cruising.

Agreed that it is not about “cruising”.  It’s about cruise ships and crews.

[LawDog61]

1 minute ago, rkacruiser said:

 

Cruise ships have been used as hotel ships in some cities where the Super Bowl has been played when the host city lacks the number of hotel rooms required.  For example:  the Zuiderdam when the game was played in Jacksonville.  

Yes, I am aware that it has been done in the past.  I am just curious to know the “work around” U.S. labor laws.

[navybankerteacher]

3 minutes ago, LawDog61 said:

Yes, I am aware that it has been done in the past.  I am just curious to know the “work around” U.S. labor laws.

Are there US labor laws which limit the time a cruise ship can stay in a US port with passengers on board?

[rkacruiser]

21 minutes ago, navybankerteacher said:

Are there US labor laws which limit the time a cruise ship can stay in a US port with passengers on board?

 

An excellent question!  

[chengkp75]

59 minutes ago, navybankerteacher said:

Are there US labor laws which limit the time a cruise ship can stay in a US port with passengers on board?

 

37 minutes ago, rkacruiser said:

 

An excellent question!  

No.  Since they are not transporting passengers for hire (passenger being defined as a traveler on a public conveyance), there is no problem.  The moment the ship moves, everything changes.

[navybankerteacher]

3 minutes ago, chengkp75 said:

 

No.  Since they are not transporting passengers for hire (passenger being defined as a traveler on a public conveyance), there is no problem.  The moment the ship moves, everything changes.

Thanks.

[pris993]

I think NCL provided a ship to help with an emergency in New Orleans some years back.  

 

Any rate am sure NYC can figure it out. 

[Philob]

4 hours ago, Toofarfromthesea said:

 

The big Salesforce conference that is held in San Francisco every year uses cruise ships as floating hotels since even SF doesn't have enough hotel space for the number of attendees. 

I remember reading about the grumblings from some attendees that while the accommodations where nice, they had to go through cruise ship screening to get on and off. Some were particularly peeved that unregistered guests couldn't board 😎

Edited October 1, 2022 by Philob

[Joebucks]

It is to house the influx of migrants in NY. Absolutely about politics

[navybankerteacher]

6 hours ago, Joebucks said:

It is to house the influx of migrants in NY. Absolutely about politics

If it is to house the influx of immigrants, you are correct.  Buy this thread is about emergency housing - and that emergency may not have arisen from the influx of immigrants.

[Aquahound]

21 hours ago, pris993 said:

I think NCL provided a ship to help with an emergency in New Orleans some years back.  

 

Any rate am sure NYC can figure it out. 

 

After Katrina, Carnival sent 2 ships to NOLA.   The ships were chartered by the government.  Turned out to be a bit of a flop because they were mostly used for city workers, not evacuees as intended.  

 

The government can write emergency declarations to temporarily waive almost anything.  But that said, I'm not sure what labor laws, if any, would be impacted by this scenario.  

[Mary229]

4 hours ago, Aquahound said:

 

After Katrina, Carnival sent 2 ships to NOLA.   The ships were chartered by the government.  Turned out to be a bit of a flop because they were mostly used for city workers, not evacuees as intended.  

 

The government can write emergency declarations to temporarily waive almost anything.  But that said, I'm not sure what labor laws, if any, would be impacted by this scenario.  

Actually being intimately aware of what was happening there they were intended to support first responders.  New Orleans was slammed by Covid because Mardi Gras occurred at precisely the worst time.   
 

Ships have been used for hurricane first responders in the past as well. 
 

 

[Mary229]

Cruise ships cannot be commandeered for these purposes, it is all under contract.   They aren’t sailing so likely, just like casinos, they fall under different laws. 

[navybankerteacher]

3 hours ago, Mary229 said:

Cruise ships cannot be commandeered for these purposes, it is all under contract.   They aren’t sailing so likely, just like casinos, they fall under different laws. 

And you know this as a certainty?

[BlueRiband]

Cruise ships have been used for emengeny housing in the past and also to house Olympic athletes such as professional US basketball players.  

 

If NYC works this out with NCL it will put covid protocols to the test.  Do migrants get served meals or can they serve themselves at the buffet?  Do they have to mask whenever out of their cabin?  Can they come and go at will?  What testing/vaccination requirments will be required?   If there is no covid testing for a migrant to board and live there for weeks or months then why should I be required to get a covid test to board a ship for a 7-day cruise? 

[BruceMuzz]

When a foreign flag cruise ship enters the waters of your country (or a foreign flag airplane), a unique blend of local and international laws goes into effect.

On some levels, Local Laws and / or Federal Laws take precedence; on other levels, International and/or Flag State Laws govern what they do.

Sometimes there are grey and/or overlapping laws that confuse everyone.

All the employees on a foreign flag ship - or airplane - that is inside the USA, have a special US Visa, called a C1-D, that allows them to work onboard their foreign flag vessel, as a non-US Citizen. They are not subject to US Labor or Tax Laws. They cannot legally work anywhere off their vessel. If they want to set foot off their vessel, they must carry a US I-95 Visa that allows foreign transport workers to briefly leave their vessel and briefly enter the USA (usually for a maximum of 24 hours) - but not for employment purposes.

When they join the vessel in a US Port, they must go through US Immigration and customs, as they are officially leaving the USA and entering the country where their vessel is flagged. If they disembark their vessel in a US port, they must go through Immigration again, as they are officially leaving the country where the vessel is flagged and entering the USA. When they disembark their vessel in a US port, after going through US Immigration and customs, they are granted a 24 hour visitor visa that allows them time to get to the airport and fly back to their home country.

[Mary229]

8 hours ago, navybankerteacher said:

And you know this as a certainty?

For the Covid epidemic, yes.  My sister was a lead Covid nurse in the largest regional hospital.  There is a pier nearby where intended for housing additional medical personnel.  It was never used in that location. I do not think the downtown location was used either.  From recollection the only ship actually used during the Covid crisis was the navy ship in New York.

 

I don’t recall how and if the ships were used during Katrina.  

 

to the others again, I say, it is not sailing so maritime employment laws and cruise entry regulations don’t apply.  Those rules and laws are for sailing vessels.  Consider the Queen Mary that is a hotel and tourist attraction, no one needs to present a passport or vaccine card to enter 

Edited October 3, 2022 by Mary229

[chengkp75]

7 minutes ago, Mary229 said:

Consider the Queen Mary that is a hotel and tourist attraction, no one needs to present a passport or vaccine card to enter 

The Queen Mary's certificate of documentation and certificate of registry (think of your car's title and registration) expired decades ago, and she is no longer a ship, nor registered in a foreign country.

 

As BruceMuzz says, the crew's visa allows them to work on the ship, provided the ship does not move a passenger from one point in the US to another, or engage in a "voyage to nowhere".

11 hours ago, Mary229 said:

Cruise ships cannot be commandeered for these purposes, it is all under contract.   They aren’t sailing so likely, just like casinos, they fall under different laws.

So much to try to unpack in this.  Of course they cannot be "commandeered" since they are not owned in the US or registered there.  Can they be used for this purpose?  Yes, and have been in the past, if chartered for this between the government and the cruise line.  What do you mean by "it is all under contract"?  What do you mean by "just like casinos" they fall under different laws?  The casinos on foreign cruise ships cannot open in US waters, whether the ship is sailing or not.  Casino boats in the US, whether actually moving or landlocked like some in the Midwest, are registered in the US.