"Cruise Tourist? Most Norwegians don't like you."

[SempreMare]

I was enjoying re-living the British Isles Explorer in my mind while looking at photos,  and came across this one. 

I had just checked into the Thor Oslo Opera hotel after a long but beautiful day on the Bergen - Oslo train in the post cruise extension.

Decided to take a 15 min brisk walk from that hotel via the downtown shopping pedestrian streets to the Grand Cafe for an early dinner.

 

The very first thing I saw was this sign.  For some reason it made me laugh out loud.  I wondered what Mr. Hagen would think. 

[Catlover54]

It's so appealing to go spend money in a place that is so affluent, that many people despise you despite  the revenue you bring to them . . . 

[NavyCruiser]

Total BS!  We've just came back from a week's cruise to Norway. Local people were very nice & friendly.

Probably from a small fringe protest group...

[CurlerRob]

One of the July articles that covered the protests is here ... 🍺🥌

 

https://www.cruisehive.com/protests-in-norway-over-environmental-damage-caused-by-cruise-ships/76922

[CCWineLover]

We spent 5 days in Oslo in August after our Midnight Sun cruise, staying at the Thon Rosenkrantz.  We loved the city so much and the people we met.  This sign is totally not representative of anything we saw.  You could probably look at any city in the USA and there would be some poster that is full of hate as well.   I would take it with a grain of salt.  Not relevant.   

The people in Norway were so gracious, friendly, helpful, and kind hearted - and this was in all the cruise ports as well.  

All it shows is Norway is like anywhere else - you have extremists who don't hesitate to express their views.  I have learned to ignore the noise and go with the general overall flow of foreign cities and enjoy life!

[johneb2]

I can tell you that those of us who were on the March 2109 cruise for the NL will have nothing but positive and nice things to say about the people of Norway!  They opened their hearts,, concerns, and generosity in our time of need!!

[CDNPolar]

Also, only positives to say about Norway and the people but the fact is that many countries and cities have issue with cruise ships.

 

Sometimes travelling with Viking, and we prefer off season cruising, we would be the only cruise ship in port.  Even if all Viking guests go ashore, it is not the onslaught that comes from 2 or 3 or more mega-ships when you have 10,000 people wandering your streets. 

 

I cannot say that I cannot see the side of the argument that does not like the cruise ships.  (Forgive me.... but I get it.).

 

We are not "consumers" and we don't buy trinkets and souvenirs.  We can come off a 12 day cruise and visit every city and other than go on the excursion and browse the stores during our free time, we don't purchase anything.   Yes, we have financially benefited the tour company that Viking is paying to take us around, but nothing else in that city/country economy.

[Liz Masterson]

9 hours ago, CurlerRob said:

One of the July articles that covered the protests is here ... 🍺🥌

 

https://www.cruisehive.com/protests-in-norway-over-environmental-damage-caused-by-cruise-ships/76922

It seems they are mostly objecting to cruse ships registered in countries with little oversight. It seems to me Viking ships, registered in Norway, would be more welcome!

[chengkp75]

34 minutes ago, Liz Masterson said:

It seems they are mostly objecting to cruse ships registered in countries with little oversight. It seems to me Viking ships, registered in Norway, would be more welcome!

However, Viking is registered in Norway's "second register", the NIS (Norwegian International Ship).  This exempts the ship from many of the requirements that are placed on Norwegian (NOR) registered ships, like wages, crew nationality, working conditions, etc.  The NIS was created as a way to compete with "flags of convenience" ships, and is not considered a "flag of convenience" simply because the ships fly the Norwegian flag.  There are limitations on NIS ships regarding voyages and port calls, much like the US's PVSA and Jones Act.

[Jim Avery]

I also get it.  The typical Mega Ship passenger spends very little in the few hours ashore compared to a tourist renting a hotel or house and eating all meals ashore.  Thousands of Looky Loos in any town are a disruption of sorts.

[chengkp75]

17 minutes ago, Jim Avery said:

I also get it.  The typical Mega Ship passenger spends very little in the few hours ashore compared to a tourist renting a hotel or house and eating all meals ashore.  Thousands of Looky Loos in any town are a disruption of sorts.

Yeah, state of Maine tourist board has found that cruise passengers spend less than half of what a land tourist spends in the state.

[CurlerRob]

3 hours ago, Liz Masterson said:

It seems they are mostly objecting to cruse ships registered in countries with little oversight. It seems to me Viking ships, registered in Norway, would be more welcome!

 

From other reading, they hate all cruise ships. There are similar ones all over the world. As a different poster mentioned, a fringe group.

 

Norway is home to significant levels of environmental activism, regardless of ship origin. Multiple moves afoot to restrict cruising with any emissions in the major fjords and Svallbard. Possibly one of the reasons that several of the new Viking ships apparently will be hydrogen fueled. 🍺🥌

Edited October 22, 2022 by CurlerRob
Completion

[chengkp75]

16 minutes ago, CurlerRob said:

Possibly one of the reasons that several of the new Viking ships apparently will be hydrogen fueled.

The new Viking ships hope to be hydrogen fueled, but no class society has yet made rules for building ships with hydrogen fuel, and without that, the ships won't be built (as hydrogen fueled).

[Jim Avery]

If yall have seen the latest Behemoth of the Seas from RCL, bigger all the time.  The new one is so chock full of stuff (and passengers) that the 7 day r/t Miami will stop mainly at their private island where you are encouraged to buy a private cabana with bar service,  tourist junk, and t shirts.  Eliminate port calls at all and have the ship/theme park be the destination.  I find Viking ships the right size and, in the modern context, even ship like.  900 passengers in most ports will go pretty much un noticed.  The mega ships are creating a bad image for all cruisers, even us super sophisticated big spenders on Viking...😳

[CurlerRob]

11 minutes ago, chengkp75 said:

The new Viking ships hope to be hydrogen fueled, but no class society has yet made rules for building ships with hydrogen fuel, and without that, the ships won't be built (as hydrogen fueled).

Possibly my layman's vernacular, Chief. Fuel cells may be different than fuel?

 

There was an earlier thread that touched on this - with an article that referenced the use of hydrogen fuel cells. Andy flagged you at one point in the discussion, but I don't think you ever saw or commented on it. Granted it's a ways out: 2026-28 plans.

 

In any event, the discussion point was around the pressure for low to zero emissions being an increasing hurdle for all cruises in Norway. 🍺🥌

 

 

[Jim Avery]

I hope this works.  Reciprocating diesel engines are not that much different than 100 years ago.  It is time for a new technology.  Only computers allow diesels to run much more efficiently but then Chief is the go to guy for this stuff.  Don't get me wrong, I am not a tree hugger by any means but it is time for new tech.  Various governments are doing it wrong (big surprise) with trying to kill oil.  Throwing out the baby with the bath water.   Forcing people usually makes for shortages and down economies.  Incentivize new tech and entrepreneurs will shine.  For example, BMW has been developing hydrogen fuel for cars for a long time.  They now have an experimental car that makes hydrogen from the air, uses it to power fuel cells, then that electricity drives the electric motors.  Would that be hot for ships?  That car is of course too complicated and expensive for production now but hey, it sounds pretty good.  Most science began in science fiction. 🍹

[Mich3554]

1 hour ago, chengkp75 said:

Yeah, state of Maine tourist board has found that cruise passengers spend less than half of what a land tourist spends in the state.

Many, myself included, cruise and think ‘yep, gotta come back here again’, and go for a land trip.  I had a taste, I would like to see more.  A little something is better than nothing.
In addition, when we left out of Bergen, we spent 3 days there before we boarded….hotels, shopping and restaurants.  We try to do this from of most cities we embark or disembark a ship in.

Dissing the cruise is incredibly short sighted.   

[chengkp75]

1 hour ago, CurlerRob said:

There was an earlier thread that touched on this - with an article that referenced the use of hydrogen fuel cells. Andy flagged you at one point in the discussion, but I don't think you ever saw or commented on it. Granted it's a ways out: 2026-28 plans.

Regardless of whether the hydrogen powers a diesel engine, or a fuel cell, you have to load, store, and handle hydrogen fuel.  Hydrogen can be stored as a compressed gas (about 700 bar or about 10,000psi), as a cryogenic liquid (like LNG), at -253*C (-423*F, while LNG only requires -160*C, or -256*F), or bound to a liquid carrier like ammonia, or an "organic liquid hydrogen carrier", both of which storage methods require energy to release the hydrogen.  Class society DNV has a study panel working on handling and storage of hydrogen,  but they say the challenges are still quite large, especially for upsizing from small experimental plants.  There are two small ferries, one in Norway, and one in the UK (IIRC) that are using hydrogen fueled fuel cells.  The methods of testing are on a "risk balanced basis", meaning they will test at small scale (small, but non-zero risk to public) until it is a proven technology, and then start gradual upsizing.

[LindaS272]

9 hours ago, CDNPolar said:

We are not "consumers" and we don't buy trinkets and souvenirs.  We can come off a 12 day cruise and visit every city and other than go on the excursion and browse the stores during our free time, we don't purchase anything.

Not even food? Snacks? (Chocolate?) Wine/liquor? Jewelry?

[Twitchly]

57 minutes ago, LindaS272 said:

Not even food? Snacks? (Chocolate?) Wine/liquor? Jewelry?

Public restroom fees? (We had a bunch of those in London. 🥴)

[Liz Masterson]

I love the Viking Boards!

 

I learn so much!!!

 

[CDNPolar]

2 hours ago, LindaS272 said:

Not even food? Snacks? (Chocolate?) Wine/liquor? Jewelry?

Most often on a cruise, we do all meals on the ship, and buy nothing to bring home, or consume while there.  Nothing...  

[Catlover54]

1 hour ago, CDNPolar said:

Most often on a cruise, we do all meals on the ship, and buy nothing to bring home, or consume while there.  Nothing...  

 

It's a matter of degree, but isn't "nothing" that you consume while traveling to a foreign country. It isn't just the purchase of portable  "stuff" that stimulates the Norwegian economy, but also services. On another thread, on   9/25 you even posted that you "often" [do an excursion and sample a local restaurant] before your walking around. 

 

• #6   

Posted September 25

" ... we will often do an early excursion, stay in the city/town or wherever we are, and sample a local restaurant for lunch, then wander.  Saves going back to the ship and leaving again. "

 

It all adds up to revenue for those involved in catering to tourists -- at least for the locals  -- often immigrants and lower earners BTW, who feed you and  clean the restaurants' dishes and the toilets you use, the bus drivers who drive you on the excursions, and of course the guides and the families who rely on them for their income.  And that's not even counting the dock workers.

 

Obviously the locals involved in tourism would prefer you also buy more actual "stuff" to take with you, because then the "something" you are using would be "more" income for them (depending on what business they are in). 

 

We have NIMBYism, often mixed in with environmentalism (both real and faux)  all over scenic areas in both the U.S. and the western world.  I live in such an area in northern California, and it is a tricky balance for local governments and residents who were there first.  What  made the area special originally was that almost no one was there, and the hordes of people coming to rent and visit, because they can now afford it, in their opinion, spoil the view (and sometimes leave messes). But the local businesses and the people they employ to cater to businesses (often undocumented immigrants) are happy to have the ugly visitors.

 

 

[KBs mum]

We have grockles where we live. Day visitors. Spend no money, get in the way, detrimental to the locality. 

The people who stay for a few days buy from the village shop and pub. Result in locals being employed in various capacities, and contribute to the local economy. 

We know where the Norwegians and others who don't like cruise ships are coming from

[philw1776]

Well then.  I don't like sardines!  So there!