P&O cancellation / Medical questionnaire

[Teddy123]

1 minute ago, Yorkypete said:

So you think that P&O should stop honest people boarding if they have symptoms of a cough. Can you explain what you think is a symptom of a cough? They also mentioning aching limbs and tiredness. Most people suffer from one of these but what on earth are they symptoms of? That is how ridiculous the whole thing is.

I'm just pointing out the facts here.  I'm not responsible for them. But they are what they are.

[Yorkypete]

1 hour ago, wowzz said:

There are already plenty of other cruise companies for you to chose from.

But, they all have the same Covid procedures as P&O.  

You seem to "have it in" for P&O,  when, in effect they are doing nothing different to any other mass market cruise line. Which is not to say that I agree with what they are doing, merely pointing out that it is invidious  to solely focus on P&O. 

I am focusing on P&O for one simple reason. It was on their ship I had covid, caught either nin the terminal or on the coach  and they are the company that kept me in a box for a week with no compensation and really just because I was honest. Plenty of people were coughing and spluttering but until the complaints they totally ignored them. That is the reason why.

 

[Yorkypete]

Just now, Teddy123 said:

I'm just pointing out the facts here.  I'm not responsible for them. But they are what they are.

Yes..but you cannot explain the points I made. They are not necessarily symtoms of ANYTHING.

 

 

[david05]

7 minutes ago, Teddy123 said:

I'm just pointing out the facts here.  I'm not responsible for them. But they are what they are.

But at the same time P&O are saying claim on your insurance - if not on medical grounds what? 

[terrierjohn]

7 minutes ago, Yorkypete said:

Yes..but you cannot explain the points I made. They are not necessarily symtoms of ANYTHING.

 

 

But as with all T&Cs any complaint needs to be made to P&O, you must have exhausted yourself trying to drum up support on here, all to no avail because none of us can influence P&O, and until we are in the same situation as you, we really have no idea how we would react. You dont tell us if your insurer has agreed to refund your lost cruise days,or indeed if ABTA are taking your case up with P&O,or if you did it's far too many posts ago for many of us to remember.

[jeanlyon]

59 minutes ago, wowzz said:

Therefore,  everyone should tick every  "No" box, and the questionnaire thus becomes a total charade.

Which it always was.  There was no way I would tick yes to anything.

[Windsurfboy]

22 hours ago, Yorkypete said:

I would love to see a couple of hundred people tick yes and see what P&O would do! A class action by those refused boarding would finish P&O for ever.

 

Now if every passenger ticked yes what fun.

 

Do you know a good hacker 

[kirtihk]

36 minutes ago, Windsurfboy said:

  22 hours ago, Yorkypete said:

I would love to see a couple of hundred people tick yes and see what P&O would do! A class action by those refused boarding would finish P&O for ever.

 

Now if every passenger ticked yes what fun.

 

Do you know a good hacker

"Did you have a tick within last 72 hours?" - "Yes." - "Denied!"

Edited October 14, 2022 by kirtihk

[JDB78]

Lots of ifs and buts, but IF ABTA come back and say the clause is not illegal as such, isn't a case then of you pays your money you make you choice. You're not happy to take the risk don't book - vote with your feet as they say.

 

I totally understand where P&O are coming from with the rule. They hardly want to give the impression their ships are full of people who could have Covid, flu or other transmissible diseases. The rules are a very contradictory however - dropping the requirement to show proof of a test meaning hundreds could be on board with Covid on the one hand. Yet on the other, have a non covid cough and you're supposed to tick a box and your cruise is cancelled.

 

Maybe drop the dreaded clause and a return to proof of testing? Bit of overkill if P&O review the rule and keep it basically saying you are going to be out of pocket for thousands if you have a common cold. What was the rule pre-covid?

 

Me personally, even with the rule, it's not enough to put me off travelling with them, but obviously needs looking at. Right intentions wrong implementation?

[Megabear2]

2 hours ago, JDB78 said:

Lots of ifs and buts, but IF ABTA come back and say the clause is not illegal as such, isn't a case then of you pays your money you make you choice. You're not happy to take the risk don't book - vote with your feet as they say.

 

I totally understand where P&O are coming from with the rule. They hardly want to give the impression their ships are full of people who could have Covid, flu or other transmissible diseases. The rules are a very contradictory however - dropping the requirement to show proof of a test meaning hundreds could be on board with Covid on the one hand. Yet on the other, have a non covid cough and you're supposed to tick a box and your cruise is cancelled.

 

Maybe drop the dreaded clause and a return to proof of testing? Bit of overkill if P&O review the rule and keep it basically saying you are going to be out of pocket for thousands if you have a common cold. What was the rule pre-covid?

 

Me personally, even with the rule, it's not enough to put me off travelling with them, but obviously needs looking at. Right intentions wrong implementation?

If you have the covid test and its positive you are covered on your insurance and if you are the travelling companion should be paid out to.  There are several problems : no test equals almost impossible to prove you have covid as no one will test you if you have symptoms and it has to be certified.  For my part even if no test is required by P&O I will pay for a certified test to ensure if the worst happens I have the required proof.  It's most certainly not ideal but that will be a personal decision that others can make.

 

The questionnaire has always existed but was tweaked for covid purposes and is now too wide to allow an honest answer.  Previously it was answered at the port not days before.  This meant it was dealt with by a human and medical staff were on hand to help. Now itsxa computer algorithm so no human is involved.  Consequently no one will answer it truthfully so its spurious to say it's for safety because quite simply it has the opposite affect, no matter what's wrong no one in their right mind will answer anything other than no.

 

ABTA cannot say its "illegal". They are a trade body with no lawful reason to judge.  They can however give an opinion and take issue with a member and normally the member takes the appropriate action. To get a legal opinion court action would be required.  It is hoped that the risk of adverse publicity if ABTA issues a statement will be enough to stop P&O stating these events are insurable if they aren't.  They cannot be forced by anyone other than a court but they can at least be made to amend and issue a warning of what is and isn't insurable this allowing those booking to be forewarned.

[kruzseeka]

8 hours ago, Megabear2 said:

If you have the covid test and its positive you are covered on your insurance and if you are the travelling companion should be paid out to.  There are several problems : no test equals almost impossible to prove you have covid as no one will test you if you have symptoms and it has to be certified.  For my part even if no test is required by P&O I will pay for a certified test to ensure if the worst happens I have the required proof.  It's most certainly not ideal but that will be a personal decision that others can make.

 

The questionnaire has always existed but was tweaked for covid purposes and is now too wide to allow an honest answer.  Previously it was answered at the port not days before.  This meant it was dealt with by a human and medical staff were on hand to help. Now itsxa computer algorithm so no human is involved.  Consequently no one will answer it truthfully so its spurious to say it's for safety because quite simply it has the opposite affect, no matter what's wrong no one in their right mind will answer anything other than no.

 

ABTA cannot say its "illegal". They are a trade body with no lawful reason to judge.  They can however give an opinion and take issue with a member and normally the member takes the appropriate action. To get a legal opinion court action would be required.  It is hoped that the risk of adverse publicity if ABTA issues a statement will be enough to stop P&O stating these events are insurable if they aren't.  They cannot be forced by anyone other than a court but they can at least be made to amend and issue a warning of what is and isn't insurable this allowing those booking to be forewarned.

What bugs me is that P&O can refuse boarding on the basis of such poor information.  If you do tick that you have a cough should there not be a follow up question to at least be able to declare a medical condition which causes that?   Not all coughs are viral infections and some are the result of a permanent medical condition.    

 

Of course they are making the Health Declaration a pointless exercise as anyone who is aware of this situation will of course tick 'No'.  This is in addition to those who haven't bothered taking a Covid test or would lie about being positive if they have.  

 

But the most appalling aspect is that they say they will deny boarding to anyone without adequate insurance when it's impossible to get cover for this contingency.  Including from their own recommended insurance partner!  On that basis everyone should be denied boarding irrespective of their health. Talk about duplicitous!  

 

P&O are either totally incompetent in terms of foreseeing the problems they are creating, completely heartless in their treatment of their customers or cynically trying to cover their backs when in fact the loopholes are evident for all to see - at least to those who follow these boards and other social media which are highlighting the problem.  Sadly many will be unaware. 

 

But I for one will not be booking any more cruises with them until some resolution to their one-sided approach is found - kick you off your cruise, no medical verification for the reason, no refund, almost certainly no insurance claim cannot be a sustainable trading position!  

 

I wish Megabear2 every success in highlighting this issue.  And thank you for your efforts.  The sooner it hits the press the better. 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Edited October 16, 2022 by kruzseeka

[yorkshirephil]

On 10/13/2022 at 9:48 AM, wowzz said:

But coughing is a symptom of a multitude of other ailments as well. To deny boarding to some one who is coughing because of a non contagious bronchial issue, say,  purely because of a similar symptom is downright wrong. 

I have asthma and sometimes cough which is a typical reflex action, did I mention a cough on my recent Msc cruise or will I mention it on my upcoming Arcadia cruise? no chance. My covid test will be enough of an indicator for me that I don't have covid. 

[Harry Peterson]

2 minutes ago, Kopchadder8 said:

 

I'm guessing that your post has been moved from a new thread to this one?  I think you'll find the various posts very helpful - but not encouraging.

 

I'm sorry you've been treated this way.

[Megabear2]

14 minutes ago, Harry Peterson said:

I'm guessing that your post has been moved from a new thread to this one?  I think you'll find the various posts very helpful - but not encouraging.

 

I'm sorry you've been treated this way.

I'm still on the case Harry, just in the background.  Conversations are ongoing ...

[Kopchadder8]

Sorry to hear about your situation, but we have fallen into exactly the same trap. We were sailing on Iona on Saturday, until we filled in our Health Declaration yesterday. My wife had a head cold a week ago so had headache and runny nose, so as honest people we said yes to the first question about having two of two hundred symptoms. Immediately, and with computer says NO  business like efficiency we got a lovely caring message in red type, telling us our cruise is cancelled and there is no appeal, and how they look forward to seeing us on board soon. Lovely, made us feel so much better. Obviously in hindsight, we should have lied and we would be sailing tomorrow. Also because my wife's sister was a linked booking on the cruise, they were caringly cancelled at the same time!! What a wonderful company P and O are. They weren't denied boarding so no idea how they will get any money back. Not sure we will as we didn't have covid, just a cold, but lovely P and O say they're sending me a letter to help with the insurance claim. Meanwhile they are selling our two cabins which we have both paid for. Has anyone ever got money back from insurers in these instances ? Obviously now complaining to P and O, then ABTA, then anyone else I can find , about this deselection method. I expected to be asked more questions when I answered yes but learnt now. Don't go anywhere P and O until they change this crazy entry method. They do not care about their customers, obviously. Reading on here people with hay-fever, sinusitis and chest infections all suffer the same electronic fate. Shocking

[Megabear2]

7 minutes ago, Kopchadder8 said:

Sorry to hear about your situation, but we have fallen into exactly the same trap. We were sailing on Iona on Saturday, until we filled in our Health Declaration yesterday. My wife had a head cold a week ago so had headache and runny nose, so as honest people we said yes to the first question about having two of two hundred symptoms. Immediately, and with computer says NO  business like efficiency we got a lovely caring message in red type, telling us our cruise is cancelled and there is no appeal, and how they look forward to seeing us on board soon. Lovely, made us feel so much better. Obviously in hindsight, we should have lied and we would be sailing tomorrow. Also because my wife's sister was a linked booking on the cruise, they were caringly cancelled at the same time!! What a wonderful company P and O are. They weren't denied boarding so no idea how they will get any money back. Not sure we will as we didn't have covid, just a cold, but lovely P and O say they're sending me a letter to help with the insurance claim. Meanwhile they are selling our two cabins which we have both paid for. Has anyone ever got money back from insurers in these instances ? Obviously now complaining to P and O, then ABTA, then anyone else I can find , about this deselection method. I expected to be asked more questions when I answered yes but learnt now. Don't go anywhere P and O until they change this crazy entry method. They do not care about their customers, obviously. Reading on here people with hay-fever, sinusitis and chest infections all suffer the same electronic fate. Shocking

So sorry to hear of your plight which is unfortunately occurring more often.  It's not much help to you but discussions are ongoing on the issue with both P&O and ABTA.  I am also in contact with P&O's insurers Holiday Extras but unfortunately I can confirm that their stance is no cover unless you had covid or another doctor certified illness.  Unfortunately your family members are most likely not covered either as no one has covid.

 

Happy to try to assist you in any way I can.  Would you be able to let me know the name of your insurer please? 

 

Appreciate it is a difficult time but i assume you are all submitting claims.  If it's not too much trouble would you be able to keep us up to date on what is happening with the insurer in particular?  

 

Please also enter immediate communication with P&O's executive office on this email address:

 

Executive.Correspondence@carnivalukgroup.com

 

They are VERY aware this is an uninsurable event and I am due to speak with them and their legal representative at the end of this week.

 

You will not be able to lodge a complaint with ABTA until you have a final letter from P&O.  If you have communication with them in writing stating they have no obligation this may suffice. There's no harm in calling ABTA if you have the written refusal but you will need to open the complaint on line.

 

Sorry I can't be any more helpful at this point but I can assure you I am working on this matter daily.

 

[bobstheboy]

This is a disgraceful attitude from P&O. Those of us who frequent social media know the pitfalls and answer accordingly, there are many more who don't know of their draconian attitude, answer truthfully and fall into the pit.

 

Come on sort this out.

[kalos]

Maybe chat with these guys as well...https://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/b00wck32/contact

[Kopchadder8]

Hi Megabear2, thanks for your interest. Nice to know we aren't howling at the wind in the middle of a desert! Our insurer is Insure and Go. Will follow your advice and contact the execs, and write to guest support. Following kalos suggestion, I will email Rip off Britain aswell. Will happily keep you in the loop, but insurer already saying it will be 6 weeks for a response! Is there anything else we can do to help push this forward. Its just so unjust.

[Megabear2]

1 hour ago, Kopchadder8 said:

Hi Megabear2, thanks for your interest. Nice to know we aren't howling at the wind in the middle of a desert! Our insurer is Insure and Go. Will follow your advice and contact the execs, and write to guest support. Following kalos suggestion, I will email Rip off Britain aswell. Will happily keep you in the loop, but insurer already saying it will be 6 weeks for a response! Is there anything else we can do to help push this forward. Its just so unjust.

Assuming you are saying that you have submitted your claim form and been told they can't look at it for 6 weeks? If that's not the case and it takes that long to answer the query of its insurable its definitely not acceptable.  In that case keep pushing Insure and Go.  Call them and state 6 weeks is unacceptable, record and document the call.  Give them 14 days that's a reasonable time to respond to communication.  Emphasise that you are going to need to explore legal routes if there is no cover - this won't actually be against Insure and Go but P&O. If they say tough tell them you are contacting FCA due to exceptional circumstances, in fact call them anyway.

 

When writing to P&O quote Adam Edinburgh of Holiday Extras. If you can't find his text on the thread post here and I'll put it on.  If you want help in writing your communication let me know - to date I have been able to rattle them as I check all facts meticulously and do not add any emotion.

 

I'd be grateful if you don't mention me personally in communication with P&O/Carnival as I don't want them to see me as some rampant vigilante!!

[yorkshirephil]

How long will it be before some claims company have a new advert "Did your holiday company deny you a holiday because you coughed or are honest" 

[Camberley]

3 hours ago, bobstheboy said:

This is a disgraceful attitude from P&O. Those of us who frequent social media know the pitfalls and answer accordingly, there are many more who don't know of their draconian attitude, answer truthfully and fall into the pit.

 

Come on sort this out.

Their utter lack of decent response, let alone a human touch, is staggering - even though I’ve gotten pretty used to their “quirks”.  I’ve had 5 friends on different P&O cruises these past few months - all of whom are seasoned cruisers - denied boarding for the same reason, being honest when filling in those questions (and none of them had covid even within many months previously)….and then they get that brick wall.

 

Thankfully each has cancelled their other cruises they had already booked with P&O over the next couple of years (one of them had 4 booked!) and have instead booked with other companies.

Edited October 28, 2022 by Camberley

[zap99]

51 minutes ago, Megabear2 said:

Assuming you are saying that you have submitted your claim form and been told they can't look at it for 6 weeks? If that's not the case and it takes that long to answer the query of its insurable its definitely not acceptable.  In that case keep pushing Insure and Go.  Call them and state 6 weeks is unacceptable, record and document the call.  Give them 14 days that's a reasonable time to respond to communication.  Emphasise that you are going to need to explore legal routes if there is no cover - this won't actually be against Insure and Go but P&O. If they say tough tell them you are contacting FCA due to exceptional circumstances, in fact call them anyway.

 

When writing to P&O quote Adam Edinburgh of Holiday Extras. If you can't find his text on the thread post here and I'll put it on.  If you want help in writing your communication let me know - to date I have been able to rattle them as I check all facts meticulously and do not add any emotion.

 

I'd be grateful if you don't mention me personally in communication with P&O/Carnival as I don't want them to see me as some rampant vigilante!!

You really are a star in all this. Rattling cages seems to be a speciality of yours. Thanks from us all.

[Kopchadder8]

Thanks for your response Megabear2. Have chased Insure and Wait and they accept its unreasonable and are chasing it up on my behalf with CSA, the settlement agency. I will give them till Tuesday and chase again as per your suggestions. I am sorry but I can't find Adams posts, so would be grateful for a pointer. I think I am OK doing the writing. No worries, you will be my secret weapon. Thanks again.

[Megabear2]

2 hours ago, Kopchadder8 said:

Thanks for your response Megabear2. Have chased Insure and Wait and they accept its unreasonable and are chasing it up on my behalf with CSA, the settlement agency. I will give them till Tuesday and chase again as per your suggestions. I am sorry but I can't find Adams posts, so would be grateful for a pointer. I think I am OK doing the writing. No worries, you will be my secret weapon. Thanks again.

This from 30.09.2022

I’ll try to address your questions and concerns below.

On your first point regarding this paragraph from P&O:

“We’re unable to accept guests who, within 10 days prior to the cruise, have been unwell with confirmed or suspected COVID-19 or have been in close contact with someone with confirmed or suspected COVID-19. If you’re impacted by this, you would need to call our Customer Contact Centre on 0344 338 8003 (local call charges apply) and not travel to the terminal/airport”

This is a rule put in place and enforced by P&O, and is not in line with any current government guidance or advice, and therefore any denial of boarding or cancellation would not be classed as an insurable event and is therefore not covered under our policies.

In terms of what would be accepted as a reason for cancellation, a medically verified test can be a lateral flow test verified by your doctor. We would need this same verification for a cancellation claim for any other medical condition or issue.

Regarding non-positive travellers and close contacts of a positive result, this is again a rule put in place by P&O and is not in line with current government guidelines, which do not require you to isolate yourself if you come into contact with somebody who has tested positive. Our policies will cover you for cancellation if one of the following people tests positive for COVID: you, your relative, a member of your household, travelling companion, or person that were due to stay with.

And finally, I can confirm that our underwriter’s stance on passengers being forced to disembark against the advice of the insurer’s medical assistance teams has not changed since our discussions earlier this year.