Booking with air miles

[NCteacherlovescruising]

We have a couple AAdvantage credit cards. We will be cruising from Barcelona to Rome June 2024. Looking at flights for the same time this summer, premium economy is over 200,000 miles and first class is over 500,000.  Is that typical for a multicity flight (Charlotte on both ends) over the summer or is it higher now because it’s so close?

[Gardyloo]

Most airlines including AA have gone to "dynamic" pricing on award flights, meaning that the price in miles/points varies according to demand.  The redemption requirement can vary from day to day, indeed from flight to flight.  

 

In the case of AA and flying from CLT, it's complicated by the fact that AA generally relies on connecting flights using British Airways out of London, which exposes you to BA's user fees and surcharges, which added to the mileage requirement turns "award" flights into pretty poor value.  

 

Regardless, booking now for June 2024 is impossible, so I would cool it until sometime this autumn or winter, when things will be bookable and hopefully more predictable.  

[CruiserBruce]

Getting an idea of what "regular" pricing is, by looking now, is a good idea, but yes, unless they are really having problems selling the award seats, they will be at full price or higher this close to current flight dates.

 

I don't know AA's procedures, but I know UA's mileage rates seem to move around  a lot in the first 20 or so days after releasing the seats. So, in your case, if you are going to fly, for example, June 25th of next year, start looking at the rates on say, for May 25th, and watch what the rates do for that day for a couple of weeks after release to get an idea how they might vary. I know for a flight I was trying to book, I found that 10-12 days after release seemed to be the "magic window". It may be different on AA. 

 

Another tactic to help on this front... if AA has a "see the whole month" feature, (called "I am flexible" or "flexible dates" on United) where you can see the mileage rate for an entire month, you might find every Tuesday (an example) has cheaper rates. Or connecting on a different partner might be cheaper rates. So, flying in a day or two earlier might save you a bunch. 

 

[FlyerTalker]

13 hours ago, NCteacherlovescruising said:

We have a couple AAdvantage credit cards. We will be cruising from Barcelona to Rome June 2024. Looking at flights for the same time this summer, premium economy is over 200,000 miles and first class is over 500,000.  Is that typical for a multicity flight (Charlotte on both ends) over the summer or is it higher now because it’s so close?

 

12 hours ago, CruiserBruce said:

Getting an idea of what "regular" pricing is, by looking now, is a good idea, but yes, unless they are really having problems selling the award seats, they will be at full price or higher this close to current flight dates.

 

Looking now at June pricing is not going to give you a picture of what you might pay for 2024 seats.  All of the "bargain" redemptions are long gone for summer travel across the Atlantic, so you are finding the higher dynamic pricing when demand is strong and supply is reduced.

 

One small tip:  If you are flying from a fortress hub like CLT, you may find better pricing from a nearby "other city" than from the hub itself.  When it comes time for inventory to become available (after July of this year), check out pricing from Greensboro, Raleigh, and even Atlanta.  It may be worth driving there, or taking a positioning flight, especially if saving tens of thousands of miles.

 

 

 

[NMTraveller]

Way too expensive...

 

I book when the flights first come available (330 days out or better).  Then I book an exit row seat.  Or upgrade to a better seat with points.

Edited May 20, 2023 by NMTraveller

[taxatty]

On 5/12/2023 at 3:10 AM, FlyerTalker said:

 

 

Looking now at June pricing is not going to give you a picture of what you might pay for 2024 seats.  All of the "bargain" redemptions are long gone for summer travel across the Atlantic, so you are finding the higher dynamic pricing when demand is strong and supply is reduced.

 

One small tip:  If you are flying from a fortress hub like CLT, you may find better pricing from a nearby "other city" than from the hub itself.  When it comes time for inventory to become available (after July of this year), check out pricing from Greensboro, Raleigh, and even Atlanta.  It may be worth driving there, or taking a positioning flight, especially if saving tens of thousands of miles.

 

 

 

Good advice--add Asheville and Greenville, SC to the list as they're closer to you and have lots of AA flights between them and CLT . As an example, It was cheaper for us to fly to Dublin as AVL-CLT-DUB-CLT-AVL than CLT-DUB-CLT--go figure.

[LibertyBella]

A few caveats based on experience--even if you score very low mileage seats far in advance, by the time the actual travel date comes closer, the flights may have changed and morphed so much (non-stop into multiple connections, changed times), that you will simply cancel them, and then buy better flights with cash.

 

Also, be wary of connections within a foreign country--if one of the partner flights is cancelled or changed, you could potentially be stranded in that country as no other FF seats or flights may be available or affordable last minute (then you just have to buy a connecting flight on a completely different airline with cash and say, thank goodness for travel insurance that will reimburse that unexpected flight cost, and glad I have an extra credit card with unused credit.).

[NCteacherlovescruising]

On 5/20/2023 at 12:06 PM, NMTraveller said:

Way too expensive...

 

I book when the flights first come available (330 days out or better).  Then I book an exit row seat.  Or upgrade to a better seat with points.

So you think the cheapest time to buy is when they first come out?  I didn’t realize we could upgrade with points. 
 

On 5/20/2023 at 10:25 PM, taxatty said:

Good advice--add Asheville and Greenville, SC to the list as they're closer to you and have lots of AA flights between them and CLT . As an example, It was cheaper for us to fly to Dublin as AVL-CLT-DUB-CLT-AVL than CLT-DUB-CLT--go figure.

 

I’d have to save a lot of money to drive away from here before a long flight. 
 

On 5/22/2023 at 10:50 PM, LibertyBella said:

A few caveats based on experience--even if you score very low mileage seats far in advance, by the time the actual travel date comes closer, the flights may have changed and morphed so much (non-stop into multiple connections, changed times), that you will simply cancel them, and then buy better flights with cash.

 

Also, be wary of connections within a foreign country--if one of the partner flights is cancelled or changed, you could potentially be stranded in that country as no other FF seats or flights may be available or affordable last minute (then you just have to buy a connecting flight on a completely different airline with cash and say, thank goodness for travel insurance that will reimburse that unexpected flight cost, and glad I have an extra credit card with unused credit.).

I didn’t realize they could change a nonstop flight to a connecting flights after they sold tickets, especially since you pay a premium for the non-stop flights. 

[NMTraveller]

31 minutes ago, NCteacherlovescruising said:

So you think the cheapest time to buy is when they first come out?  I didn’t realize we could upgrade with points. 
 

 

The points redemptions seem to thin out or require a large number of points if you wait too long. 

Delta will let you upgrade seats with points.

[NCteacherlovescruising]

3 minutes ago, NMTraveller said:

The points redemptions seem to thin out or require a large number of points if you wait too long. 

Delta will let you upgrade seats with points.

We have AAdvantage. 

[FlyerTalker]

36 minutes ago, NMTraveller said:

Delta will let you upgrade seats with points.

 

At an absolutely LOUSY redemption rate for those SkyPesos.  Last time I checked, the offer to move up cost miles at the redemption value of less than a penny a point.

 

Plus, those point upgrades are very capacity controlled.

 

One reason I am no longer a Deltaholic.

 

 

[6rugrats]

1 hour ago, NCteacherlovescruising said:
 

I didn’t realize they could change a nonstop flight to a connecting flights after they sold tickets, especially since you pay a premium for the non-stop flights. 

Yes, happens all the time as schedules change.

[CruiserBruce]

2 hours ago, NCteacherlovescruising said:

So you think the cheapest time to buy is when they first come out?  I didn’t realize we could upgrade with points. 
 

 

I’d have to save a lot of money to drive away from here before a long flight. 
 

I didn’t realize they could change a nonstop flight to a connecting flights after they sold tickets, especially since you pay a premium for the non-stop flights. 

Absolutely, they can, and do. And usually,  this results in a significant change in the itinerary, you could refuse it and get a full refund. 

[Gardyloo]

On 5/20/2023 at 9:06 AM, NMTraveller said:

Way too expensive...

 

I book when the flights first come available (330 days out or better).  Then I book an exit row seat.  Or upgrade to a better seat with points.

 

I think there's some misunderstanding of how things work on both pricing and award availability.  

 

Airlines use very sophisticated (and very secret) algorithms to determine how much to charge for a given flight, and when (or if) to release seats for that flight into award inventory (including upgrades.)  While sales open at 330 days out (or 360, or fewer) depending on the airline, it's seldom the case that the cheapest fares will be offered then.  Look at it from the airline's point of view.  What will the price of fuel be in 11 months' time?  What if there's a contract with baggage handlers that will expire in month 5?  What if the economy threatens to tank because of a war someplace, on and on...

 

So they hedge by setting fares high enough to cover those uncertainties, or at least minimize the potential downside.  Later in the booking window, as things become more certain (fuel prices stabilize, strikes averted, etc.) the robots may be able to project that all the economy or business class seats on flight X aren't likely to sell between today and the flight date, so they'll release one or two into award or upgrade inventory.  At the same time, the robots can bump the price (in miles/points) for those upgrade seats.  This happens throughout the 330 (or whatever) booking period.  In fact, it's often the case that the best award availability turns up a couple of weeks before the flight as the robots have decided that nobody is likely to turn up and pay thousands of dollars/pounds/euros for that flight.  Sell them for miles and take those miles out of the contingent liability column on the books.  Of course, waiting until the last minute doesn't work well for cruisers, who can't afford to play chicken with the cruise line.

 

The thing is, these algorithms are working 24/7, and are also taking into account historic sales for the same city pair at the same time of year, how many seats the competition is making available for sale and at what prices for the same dates, operating cost trends, on and on.  Thinking you can outsmart these robots is a fool's gambit.

 

Now some airlines DO make some award seats available at D-330 or whatever.  British Airways is famous for this BECAUSE BA also levies very high service charges for "award" seats, often totaling into the thousands of dollars, in addition to the miles/points/Avios needed.  When you assign a nominal value to the points (say a penny a mile) and add that to the cash surcharge, you'll find that the "free" flight is actually not that far off the price you'd pay out of pocket for the same flight.  So in that case the availability of the seats on Day 1 makes sense - YOU'RE paying the hedge cost. 

 

The same advice still holds. By all means get a sense of what the airfare might be and budget on the high end, just for safety's sake.  But when it's time to fish or cut bait, and you see a fare you can live with, go for it and don't look back.  

 

 

[waterbug123]

On 5/22/2023 at 10:50 PM, LibertyBella said:

Also, be wary of connections within a foreign country--if one of the partner flights is cancelled or changed, you could potentially be stranded in that country as no other FF seats or flights may be available or affordable last minute (then you just have to buy a connecting flight on a completely different airline with cash and say, thank goodness for travel insurance that will reimburse that unexpected flight cost, and glad I have an extra credit card with unused credit.).

Generally, if the airline cancels a flight mid-travel, they are obligated to get you to your destination without charging you anything additional.  And if you're traveling in Europe, EU261 may come into play and get you additional compensation to boot.

[zdcatc12]

On 5/25/2023 at 9:52 PM, CruiserBruce said:

Absolutely, they can, and do. And usually,  this results in a significant change in the itinerary, you could refuse it and get a full refund. 

Or you could change it to an itinerary of your liking that possibly cost a lot more points or cash when initially booked. This is the case if the times change a fair amount, usually two hours either side or sometimes even with a change in aircraft type

[Globaliser]

1 hour ago, waterbug123 said:

Generally, if the airline cancels a flight mid-travel, they are obligated to get you to your destination without charging you anything additional.  And if you're traveling in Europe, EU261 may come into play and get you additional compensation to boot.

 

If the airline cancels a flight mid-travel and the travel is within the scope of Regulation 261/2004, it comes into play regardless of whether compensation is payable. 261/2004 is not only about paying compensation. It's actually principally about more important things than that, including an obligation to get you to your destination (if you still want to go there), and to make sure that you're fed, watered and housed in the interim.

 

Too many people think that 261/2004 is just about paying out lottery wins.

[NMTraveller]

On 5/25/2023 at 6:08 PM, FlyerTalker said:

 

At an absolutely LOUSY redemption rate for those SkyPesos.  Last time I checked, the offer to move up cost miles at the redemption value of less than a penny a point.

 

Plus, those point upgrades are very capacity controlled.

 

One reason I am no longer a Deltaholic.

 

 

I upgraded from economy to Delta One on one of my overseas segments for a reasonable number of points.  I do get the value of Delta points is not as much as the other airlines.

 

I try to pick the airlines with the shortest/best flights and use the miles on that airline.

Edited June 10, 2023 by NMTraveller

[SelectSys]

On 5/25/2023 at 5:31 PM, NCteacherlovescruising said:

We have AAdvantage. 

AA permits booking up to 331 days in advance.  While it is still too early for you to book, flights at the limit of the booking time window are 40k and $109.00 in premium economy right to Barcelona.   The return from FCO is 49k and $56.00 per ticket.

 

Personally I think you can find yourself a deal if you are a bit flexible on routing and dates. Since AA also permits you to cancel reward reservation at anytime without penalty, I might consider locking something in early and then see if you can beat your deal over time.

 

As an example, below is a screen print of the "search by calendar" function for reward ticket availability for your proposed outbound leg by for schedulable dates in May.

 

Good luck booking your tickets!

 

Edited June 12, 2023 by SelectSys

[NCteacherlovescruising]

10 hours ago, SelectSys said:

AA permits booking up to 331 days in advance.  While it is still too early for you to book, flights at the limit of the booking time window are 40k and $109.00 in premium economy right to Barcelona.   The return from FCO is 49k and $56.00 per ticket.

 

Personally I think you can find yourself a deal if you are a bit flexible on routing and dates. Since AA also permits you to cancel reward reservation at anytime without penalty, I might consider locking something in early and then see if you can beat your deal over time.

 

As an example, below is a screen print of the "search by calendar" function for reward ticket availability for your proposed outbound leg by for schedulable dates in May.

 

Good luck booking your tickets!

 

Thank you!  My husband has the Barclays card and I have Citi.  It looks like we only have enough for one leg on each card.  Hopefully we could book one ticket with each card and still get seats together.  Or maybe pay cash for one category and upgrade with points/cash.  Any idea how many points it is to upgrade from premium economy to business or from coach to PE?

[taxatty]

https://www.aa.com/i18n/aadvantage-program/miles/redeem/award-travel/upgrade-with-miles.jsp

[SelectSys]

4 hours ago, NCteacherlovescruising said:

Hopefully we could book one ticket with each card and still get seats together.

I think you'll be able to accomplish this.  Just book the tickets at the same time and you should be able to work it out.  If the website doesn't work, I will bet someone in their call center will help you out if you explain the situation.

[NCteacherlovescruising]

2 hours ago, taxatty said:

https://www.aa.com/i18n/aadvantage-program/miles/redeem/award-travel/upgrade-with-miles.jsp

I’ve seen this before. I don’t see an option to upgrade from premium economy to business or am I missing something?

[FlyerTalker]

4 minutes ago, NCteacherlovescruising said:

I’ve seen this before. I don’t see an option to upgrade from premium economy to business or am I missing something?

 

See where it says "Upgrades are valid to the next cabin of service"

 

 

[NCteacherlovescruising]

5 minutes ago, FlyerTalker said:

 

See where it says "Upgrades are valid to the next cabin of service"

 

 

Yes, but it also says, “

    The following eligible fare types can be upgraded:

• Discount Economy with published fares booked in H,K,M,L,V,G,Q,N,O,S and Military or Government fares booked in Y
• Full-Fare Economy with published fares booked in Y 
• Discount Premium Economy with published fares booked in P
• Full-Fare Premium Economy with published fares booked in W
• Discount Business with published fares booked in I
• Full-Fare Business with published fares booked in J, D or R”

 

I don’t see premium economy to business listed here.