Changes in buffet hours - when did this happen?

[eileeshb]

Afaik the breakaway+ class ships should have snacks in the observation lounge pretty much all day, it’s just at night that we’re left with The Local/O’Sheehans or room service . 
on the breakaway/Prima/breakaway+ class ships with studios the studio lounge usually has very limited snacks available - fruit(apples or oranges), cookies, or slices of pound cake is the usual range. 

[2bc cruisers]

I’m saddened by this.  One of our fav things is after show dessert and coffee/tea. 
darn you ncl, don’t ruin a great thing.  
I will stock my room with fruit and cookies.  for my convenience of course. 

[omahabob]

5 minutes ago, 2bc cruisers said:

...I will stock my room with fruit and cookies.  for my convenience of course. 

 

And give us your cabin number. 😀

[GORDONCHICK]

6 minutes ago, 2bc cruisers said:

I’m saddened by this.  One of our fav things is after show dessert and coffee/tea. 
darn you ncl, don’t ruin a great thing.  
I will stock my room with fruit and cookies.  for my convenience of course. 

You'll have to hide your stash from your cabin steward so they dont't take it away.  But since they are only servicing cabins once a day, it's not as hard as it used to be!

[BumbleRumble]

On 7/7/2023 at 8:25 PM, BirdTravels said:

While you can do this at home at your own risk, you can't do this on a ship. Once food hits its hold times, it is sent down the grinder. And all food that is not served in the buffet is thrown out and not recycled. That is USDA requirements... I am sure that if NCL could get away with recycled food, they would. 

This statement is wildly incorrect.

 

The USDA, or the United States Department of Agriculture, has nothing to do with setting food safety standards in the US.  The US FDA, CDC, and FSIS are the governing bodies that set these policies.

 

That said, I'm not aware of any regulatory requirement around buffet food and it's management other than required temperatures.  Can you provide any source for your statement?  Any documentation to support the idea that there is some governing standard that requires food destruction after a certain period of time that is universal to all foods?  I'm very curious to be made aware of these regulations.  Outside of food being left out at room temp for two hours, I'm not aware of any such guideline.

 

Looking forward to learning more about the USDA governing how cruise ships operate in international waters.

[omahabob]

It's not that simple. First, it's FDA, not USDA, and they are far from the only regulatory agency. The FDA will have jurisdiction for vessels departing or arriving at US ports, but obviously there are limits to that. There's also the International Health Regulations (2005), the Joint Food and Agriculture Organization of the United Nations and WHO (FAO)/WHO Food Standards Program, the Maritime Labor Convention of 2006, and the Department of Transportation's Maritime Administration (MARAD). Even the Coast Guard can get involved, believe it or not. And there's probably more that I don't know about. Quite frankly, I don't understand how they're even able to keep up with all those standards and requirements. Cruise lines also develop their own individual guidelines. But in a nutshell, cruise lines will generally adhere to the most extreme standards simply to avoid any possible regulatory issues. The real difficulty is in trying to flesh out the individual details. The FDA alone separates it's food regulation into different types of foods, among other categories. This makes it very difficult to find an 'overall' policy that governs everything. And that's just the FDA. Suffice it to say that the matter is extremely complicated. But there is absolutely no doubt whatsoever that cruise ships have to comply with a myriad of food safety standards, even in international waters.

[BirdTravels]

On 7/6/2023 at 12:00 PM, UKstages said:

that’s all well and good… but the issue was: why are buffet hours being reduced?

Cost cutting.

 

Each department received a "quota" of costs cuts that they had to make. Cutting buffet hours reduces staffing, reduces food cooked (galley staff), reduced food thrown overboard.

 

And there are little things like the smoked salmon on the buffet that changed to a smoked salmon mousse pre-pandemic, reappeared as real smoked salmon post-pandemic, changed back to mousse, and now has totally gone away. Little things like the filet mignon breakfast steak in the Haven changed to a NY Strip. Little thing like the Haven Delmonico steak being replaced by a NY Strip. And the removal of Mac & Cheese from the MDR menu (gasp). 

 

You have seen it on endless threads. And the orders are coming from NCLH (Harry). But this is common across the cruise industry right now. Every cruise line is cutting costs. 

 

Housekeeping went from 2 services a day to 1 and reduced the number of room stewards.

Casino (on big ships) is cutting their host staff in half and reducing floor staff. 

Food and Beverage has cut some of the more expensive liquor 

Cruise Director is dropping some of the expensive Broadway shows and brining in cheap guest performers. 

 

[gizfish]

1 hour ago, BumbleRumble said:

This statement is wildly incorrect.

 

The USDA, or the United States Department of Agriculture, has nothing to do with setting food safety standards in the US.  The US FDA, CDC, and FSIS are the governing bodies that set these policies.

 

That said, I'm not aware of any regulatory requirement around buffet food and it's management other than required temperatures.  Can you provide any source for your statement?  Any documentation to support the idea that there is some governing standard that requires food destruction after a certain period of time that is universal to all foods?  I'm very curious to be made aware of these regulations.  Outside of food being left out at room temp for two hours, I'm not aware of any such guideline.

 

Looking forward to learning more about the USDA governing how cruise ships operate in international waters.

Actually it is time as well as temperature that says when food gets discarded.  This is from another topic here. https://boards.cruisecritic.com/topic/2935332-well-this-is-disconcerting…/page/7/#comment-65406577

 

Posted May 19

  On 5/19/2023 at 10:45 AM, KennyFla said:

Also, @chengkp75, I was under the understanding temps were checked on serving lines to keep out of the growth zones.  I could be wrong, the four hours you mentioned I always understood to be  for room temperature.

No, the USPH uses temperature control when food is held/prepared in something where the temperature can be monitored/guaranteed, like a "hot box" warming cabinet, or a reach in refrigerator.  Once it goes out of temperature control, even if a hazardous food goes into the "hazard temperature zones", by discarding at the 4 hour mark, the potential for toxin growth is not great enough to present a hazard.  And, once a food has gone into "time control", even if the food is not placed on the buffet line until just before closing (say 5-10 minutes), it can never go back under temperature control (meaning it has to be discarded, and not put back into a refrigerator or warming box

[omahabob]

USPHS is part of Health and Human Services, and has nine operating agencies;

National Institutes of Health
Food and Drug Administration
Centers for Disease Control and Prevention
Health Resources and Services Administration
Agency for Toxic Substances and Disease Registry
Indian Health Service
Agency for Healthcare Research and Quality
Substance Abuse and Mental Health Services Administration
Administration for Strategic Preparedness and Response

 

Told you it gets complicated. When government is involved, it always gets complicated.

Edited July 9, 2023 by omahabob

[Snate]

5 hours ago, BirdTravels said:

Cost cutting.

 

Each department received a "quota" of costs cuts that they had to make. Cutting buffet hours reduces staffing, reduces food cooked (galley staff), reduced food thrown overboard.

 

And there are little things like the smoked salmon on the buffet that changed to a smoked salmon mousse pre-pandemic, reappeared as real smoked salmon post-pandemic, changed back to mousse, and now has totally gone away. Little things like the filet mignon breakfast steak in the Haven changed to a NY Strip. Little thing like the Haven Delmonico steak being replaced by a NY Strip. And the removal of Mac & Cheese from the MDR menu (gasp). 

 

You have seen it on endless threads. And the orders are coming from NCLH (Harry). But this is common across the cruise industry right now. Every cruise line is cutting costs. 

 

Housekeeping went from 2 services a day to 1 and reduced the number of room stewards.

Casino (on big ships) is cutting their host staff in half and reducing floor staff. 

Food and Beverage has cut some of the more expensive liquor 

Cruise Director is dropping some of the expensive Broadway shows and brining in cheap guest performers. 

 

PSA- just had breakfast at the indulge food hall on Prima since the buffet is pretty crowded.  It was pretty empty so you could grab a table easily.  They have grab and go items but the food was pretty good and I had a bagel and real smoked salmon platter that was quite good.  Wife had a breakfast bowl with eggs, potatoes, chili and cheese. Some bowls of fruit and some pastries and we were good to go. So far I have had no issues with the food and I’m a foodie. Some food has been good and some not so good, the bananas foster was not edible.  Like push away to the middle of the table bad after one bite. Cagney was decent and the main dining room has been decent.

[UKstages]

2 hours ago, Snate said:

They have grab and go items but the food was pretty good and I had a bagel and real smoked salmon platter that was quite good.

the food is very good at the indulge food hall and breakfast is the one time when seats are readily available… you can “grab and stay” if you like.

 

the bagel and lox “platter” at indulge on the prima, however, is not “grab and go.” it has to be requested. in my experience, there is typically nobody behind the counter to assist, so it’s more of a “wait around and go.”
 

once somebody shows up, it’s a total schmoo… a whole production. they have to take a prepared pre-portioned plate out of the fridge, on which sits two extraordinarily thin slices of smoked salmon - just two - plus lettuce, onion and tomato, as well as a ramekin with a thimbleful of cream cheese, barely sufficient to be spread on one half of a bagel. no lemon is available. the bagels are kept separately and have to be located, which often takes a visit to the kitchen. only plain bagels are available and they are essentially flavorless circles of white bread with a hole in them. (even when you’ve just sailed from new york, the bagels look like they’ve come from kansas.) then comes the toasting negotiation, during which you invariably reject the first pass through the toaster because the bagel has not been browned at all. you ask for another trip through the conveyer belt of doom, and the second pass returns a perfectly toasted bagel… or a burnt inedible disk ill-suited for playing frisbee. (it depends largely on whether they’ve adjusted the toaster settings for the second pass.)

 

bottom line: not enough cream cheese, not enough salmon (though it’s of good quality), inedible bagel. but, since you’re assembling it yourself, you can leave off the lettuce that the MDR inexplicably insists on adding to their version of this breakfast favorite.

 

pro tips: bring along a bottle of “everything” seasoning to sprinkle on your bagel… it will liven things up considerably. order two of these, so you have enough cream cheese and lox for one bagel. use the second bagel as a door stop or place on hangers to separate them and stop them from rattling incessantly throughout the night.

Edited July 9, 2023 by UKstages

[DCGuy64]

It is interesting to see from some of the Daily Planners that breakfast opening hours vary from ship to ship. But the basic point remains the same: if you like to sleep late, you might miss breakfast, and that's 100% on you. The onus is on the passenger to read the schedule and plan accordingly. The cruise line isn't required to change its hours to suit you. End of story. As people say over and over on this site with regard to other things, "their ship, their rules."

[MacGuffin3]

50 minutes ago, DCGuy64 said:

if you like to sleep late, you might miss breakfast, and that's 100% on you. The onus is on the passenger to read the schedule and plan accordingly. The cruise line isn't required to change its hours to suit you.

Ok Basil Fawlty.  You sound like a great fit to be a manager in the hospitality industry.

[DCGuy64]

4 minutes ago, MacGuffin3 said:

Ok Basil Fawlty.  You sound like a great fit to be a manager in the hospitality industry.

I LOVE Basil Fawlty. He's my role model, aka "this hotel would be great if it weren't for the guests." LOL

[Cruising Lynne]

1 hour ago, DCGuy64 said:

It is interesting to see from some of the Daily Planners that breakfast opening hours vary from ship to ship. But the basic point remains the same: if you like to sleep late, you might miss breakfast, and that's 100% on you. The onus is on the passenger to read the schedule and plan accordingly. The cruise line isn't required to change its hours to suit you. End of story. As people say over and over on this site with regard to other things, "their ship, their rules."

The problem is that they used to have hours that suited most people.

 

They changed the rules. People can express that they do not like the change. The passengers can complain and hope for change, or cruise on other lines that accommodate passengers better. 

[ChiefMateJRK]

14 minutes ago, Cruising Lynne said:

The problem is that they used to have hours that suited most people.

Have we seen real evidence that NCL has changed the hours in any meaningful way?  I review a lot of the posted dallies and I'm just not seeing it.  We saw one situation where they shifted the breakfast hours earlier due to an early port arrival.  That makes perfect sense.

[JamieLogical]

1 minute ago, ChiefMateJRK said:

Have we seen real evidence that NCL has changed the hours in any meaningful way?  I review a lot of the posted dallies and I'm just not seeing it.  We saw one situation where they shifted the breakfast hours earlier due to an early port arrival.  That makes perfect sense.

 

They have certainly eliminated late night snack hours. It looks like the breakfast hours vary too much between ships and itineraries, so it is harder to say unless someone has dailies from the exact same itinerary on the exact same ship from before this change was allegedly made.

[DCGuy64]

56 minutes ago, Cruising Lynne said:

The problem is that they used to have hours that suited most people.

 

They changed the rules. People can express that they do not like the change. The passengers can complain and hope for change, or cruise on other lines that accommodate passengers better. 

Yes, and other people can say things are fine. Opinions work both ways, you're free to complain and I'm free to disagree. If enough people complain, the cruise line might change things. If most people are happy with the status quo, things won't change because they don't need to. As someone else pointed out, the hours differ depending which ship you're sailing on, so it's sort of a moving target in the first place.

[BirdTravels]

On 7/8/2023 at 7:03 PM, 2bc cruisers said:

I’m saddened by this.  One of our fav things is after show dessert and coffee/tea. 
darn you ncl, don’t ruin a great thing.  
I will stock my room with fruit and cookies.  for my convenience of course. 

Simple. Go to the 24/7 restaurant (The Local/O'Shehan's). No need to hoard cookies. 

[BirdTravels]

1 hour ago, Cruising Lynne said:

The problem is that they used to have hours that suited most people.

No, they used to have hours to suit almost all people. In which case there were periods  like late night where they were expending a lot of money to satisfy very very very small portion of the passengers onboard. Now, NCL has adjusted hours to suit most people, focusing service on the times when people really go to the buffet. 

 

For full disclosure, we are some of those who would go 3 or 4 nights during a cruise to have a piece of pizza just before the late night buffet closed. Not that we were starving or needed it,,,, it was more of a cruise ship tradition (NCL buffet, RCCL Sorentos). We have now sailed 4 times since NCL discontinued the late night buffet late last year and really don't miss it. Once, out of the 4 cruises, we grabbed a dessert at The Local and watched a part of a movie from the balcony around the atrium,,, which was a an o.k. compromise. 

[DCGuy64]

10 minutes ago, BirdTravels said:

No, they used to have hours to suit almost all people. In which case there were periods  like late night where they were expending a lot of money to satisfy very very very small portion of the passengers onboard. Now, NCL has adjusted hours to suit most people, focusing service on the times when people really go to the buffet. 

Excellent, well said.

[LMaxwell]

930 is too early to end breakfast on vacation

[bkrickles1]

6 minutes ago, LMaxwell said:

930 is too early to end breakfast on vacation

THEY ARE NOT ENDING BREAKFAST AT 9:30AM!!!! 

 

LMFAO 😂 😂 😂 😂 😂 

[DCGuy64]

10 minutes ago, LMaxwell said:

930 is too early to end breakfast on vacation

No, it isn't. And there we have it in miniature: you say it's too early, I say it's not. NCL agrees with me. I win! 😂😂😂

[JGmf]

52 minutes ago, BirdTravels said:

Simple. Go to the 24/7 restaurant (The Local/O'Shehan's). No need to hoard cookies.

 

Barf.  I may be the minority, but the food there stinks, esp if you want something that's not meat and not fried....and don't want to wait for table service.