Norovirus at 10 year high

[ziggyuk]

You would think that with all the recent precautions that Norovirus would be rare, especially as it spread by touch and easily controlled through washing and cleanliness.
But no, it's at a 10 year high.
https://www.forbes.com/sites/brucelee/2023/07/14/norovirus-outbreaks-on-ships-already-reach-10-year-high-in-2023/

[BirdTravels]

On our last cruise in May, there were limited washy washy people at the buffet entrance when we went in. Cost Cutting. The buffet was still changing serving utensils and wiping counters every 15 minutes to minimize the spread of germs. 

[ggTexasGal]

18 minutes ago, ziggyuk said:

You would think that with all the recent precautions that Norovirus would be rare, especially as it spread by touch and easily controlled through washing and cleanliness.
But no, it's at a 10 year high.
https://www.forbes.com/sites/brucelee/2023/07/14/norovirus-outbreaks-on-ships-already-reach-10-year-high-in-2023/

Agree!!!

It is amazing that there are still people who go into the restrooms and leave without washing their hands. I don't care if it's to brush their hair, or whatever else, hand washing absolutely should take place before walking out of the restroom!  DH says things are the same in the men's restroom!

[ziggyuk]

15 minutes ago, BirdTravels said:

On our last cruise in May, there were limited washy washy people at the buffet entrance when we went in. Cost Cutting. The buffet was still changing serving utensils and wiping counters every 15 minutes to minimize the spread of germs. 

 

Yes, I have noticed on recent cruises there are no longer washy washy people.

[ziggyuk]

5 minutes ago, ggTexasGal said:

Agree!!!

It is amazing that there are still people who go into the restrooms and leave without washing their hands. I don't care if it's to brush their hair, or whatever else, hand washing absolutely should take place before walking out of the restroom!  DH says things are the same in the men's restroom!

 

I won't even touch the door handle without tissue.
That said the covid thread that has just been shut claims a lack of soap in the washrooms.

[Karaboudjan]

Quite a sensationalistic 'article' from someone touting their public health credentials.  A lot if it reads like it could have come from a cruise ship comedian's monologue.  So there have been 13 outbreaks this year.  What does that mean?  Is 13 out of the thousands of sailings statistically meaningful?  According to the CDC there are over 5 million cases per year of Noro in the US, so is 13 outbreaks on cruise ships really bad or is it good compared to the overall incidence?

[RocketMan275]

1 hour ago, ziggyuk said:

You would think that with all the recent precautions that Norovirus would be rare, especially as it spread by touch and easily controlled through washing and cleanliness.
But no, it's at a 10 year high.

Not at all surprising.  The biggest spreaders of Noro are school kids.  School is out and the kids are at sea.

[RocketMan275]

50 minutes ago, ggTexasGal said:

Agree!!!

It is amazing that there are still people who go into the restrooms and leave without washing their hands. I don't care if it's to brush their hair, or whatever else, hand washing absolutely should take place before walking out of the restroom!  DH says things are the same in the men's restroom!

Noro is transmitted primarily through the faecal-oral route, either by consumption of contaminated food or water, or by spreading directly from person to person. Vomiting creates effectively aerosols with high content of virus particles, which enter the oral mucosa or contaminate surfaces. 

 

Probably more useful to wash after leaving the bathroom.

Edited July 27, 2023 by RocketMan275

[MJSailors]

Just a heads up. My DH and I were on a Celebrity Summit cruise to Bermuda in early June.

Early Thursday morning of the cruise I experienced intestinal  upset that lasted for three hours.

I felt nauseous for the remainder of the cruise. When we got home, I tested positive for Covid.

What I thought was Noro was something else.

Our family doctor said the C virus is showing up as intestinal symptoms.

Those cases of Noro may be really Covid.. It is still out there!

MJ

[ggTexasGal]

2 hours ago, RocketMan275 said:

Probably more useful to wash after leaving the bathroom.

Totally agree! I always wash before leaving, and after leaving (or use lots of hand sanitizer).

[ziggyuk]

1 hour ago, ggTexasGal said:

Totally agree! I always wash before leaving, and after leaving (or use lots of hand sanitizer).

 

I agree but there are very few hand sanitizers that work against Norovirus, I use one that does but most do not.

[julig22]

5 hours ago, ziggyuk said:

You would think that with all the recent precautions that Norovirus would be rare, especially as it spread by touch and easily controlled through washing and cleanliness.
But no, it's at a 10 year high.

The same people who didn't wash their hands before the pandemic probably aren't doing it now either, so no reason to believe that anything is going to be different.  Same with those who won't isolate or take additional precautions if they are sick.

[njhorseman]

2 hours ago, MJSailors said:

Just a heads up. My DH and I were on a Celebrity Summit cruise to Bermuda in early June.

Early Thursday morning of the cruise I experienced intestinal  upset that lasted for three hours.

I felt nauseous for the remainder of the cruise. When we got home, I tested positive for Covid.

What I thought was Noro was something else.

Our family doctor said the C virus is showing up as intestinal symptoms.

Those cases of Noro may be really Covid.. It is still out there!

MJ

Testing is done in an attempt to pinpoint the cause of cruise ship GI outbreaks...when we fell ill a few years ago on a cruise the ship's medical center asked us to provide stool samples for testing. 

 

If you look at the cruise ship outbreak data  published by the CDC at https://www.cdc.gov/nceh/vsp/surv/gilist.htm you'll see that all 13 reportable outbreaks in 2023, including one on your ship not long before you cruised, have been identified as being caused by norovirus. Noro can linger on the ship and at times the same ship will have reportable outbreaks on consecutive cruises as is the case this year on the 3/11 and 3/23 sailings of the Enchantment of the Seas.

 

BTW, the fact that you tested positive for COVID after returning home doesn't preclude the possibility of your having had norovirus on the ship, particularly because there had been a recent outbreak on that ship.

[HowardK]

6 hours ago, ggTexasGal said:

Agree!!!

It is amazing that there are still people who go into the restrooms and leave without washing their hands. I don't care if it's to brush their hair, or whatever else, hand washing absolutely should take place before walking out of the restroom!  DH says things are the same in the men's restroom!

not only do I wash my hands, I also make sure to travel with anti bacterial hand wipes- and clorox wipes for whatever room I will stay in

[Panhandle Couple]

1 hour ago, njhorseman said:

Testing is done in an attempt to pinpoint the cause of cruise ship GI outbreaks...when we fell ill a few years ago on a cruise the ship's medical center asked us to provide stool samples for testing. 

 

If you look at the cruise ship outbreak data  published by the CDC at https://www.cdc.gov/nceh/vsp/surv/gilist.htm you'll see that all 13 reportable outbreaks in 2023, including one on your ship not long before you cruised, have been identified as being caused by norovirus. Noro can linger on the ship and at times the same ship will have reportable outbreaks on consecutive cruises as is the case this year on the 3/11 and 3/23 sailings of the Enchantment of the Seas.

 

BTW, the fact that you tested positive for COVID after returning home doesn't preclude the possibility of your having had norovirus on the ship, particularly because there had been a recent outbreak on that ship.

RCL = 4

Princess = 3

Celebrity = 3

Viking = 1

Holland America = 1

P&O = 1

 

NCL = 0

Carnival = 0

Disney = 0

 

Just saying....

[Panhandle Couple]

Looking at the CDC data closer;

  Prior to 2019, for large ships (over 1,500 passengers) the highest affected is 8%, but the average (eyeballing it) is 3.5% to 4%.

 

For 2023 (you need to click on each ships link) the ships with outbreaks were in the 2,000 to 2,800 passenger range.  No ships with larger passenger base reported cases.  Hmmm.

[drneal]

Great.

just when I thought it was safe to go back in the water.  This is my first post COVID era cruise.  
I asked my internal medicine doctor who is also an infectious disease specialist and my wife who is a pediatrician and has a masters degree in public health….both say not an issue. 
As for me I ride the NYC subway daily and go to the gym…..but I’m not going near any pool on a cruise ship. 🤢

[CathyGo7280]

Disclaimer: I'm not a doctor and I haven't cruised in quite some time.

What I'm seeing on ship videos is a bunch of purell hand sanitizer stations.

Norovirus isn't killed by alcohol based hand sanitizer!
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3168661/

Ships need to be providing hand washing stations and emphasizing that hand sanitizer does not kill noro. Of course, that's much more expensive so probably not going to happen unless big fines start being handed out. And we'll just ignore the fact that outbreaks outside of cruise ships are commonly traced to a food service worker with bad hygiene habits. 😉 It's much simpler to blame the passenger but if the food or water is contaminated the passenger can't do much about it. When a large number all get sick at the same time you can be pretty sure it's a worker who doesn't wash properly. Remember having a separate large prep kitchen is common so even if people ate at different locations they may still be eating food prepped by the same worker.

Also, most surface sanitizers have a longer contact time than people actually let the product sit on there for. If the product takes 60 seconds to kill noro it needs to be on the surface and wet for 60 seconds. 30 seconds is about the lowest you'll see. Bleach is actually a 10-20 minute contact time to kill noro. Spraying and then immediately wiping is insufficient and may actually be spreading the virus to more surfaces.
 

Edited July 28, 2023 by CathyGo7280

[CathyGo7280]

6 hours ago, ziggyuk said:

 

I agree but there are very few hand sanitizers that work against Norovirus, I use one that does but most do not.

Which hand sanitizer are you using?

[CathyGo7280]

I'm going to have to correct myself here and say that most alcohol based sanitizers don't kill noro. Purell and research directly paid for by Purell suggests that some of their products like VF Plus do kill noro. Unfortunately other studies that are not funded by Purell have not had as good results so you'll have to make your own decision on that. I'm sure they work better than the standard alcohol sanitizers but still should take a back seat to hand washing.

[ziggyuk]

1 hour ago, CathyGo7280 said:

Which hand sanitizer are you using?

 

This is the one I use, the first picture is one I had saved on my CC images from a few years ago, they have removed the "Effective against Norovirus" from the current packaging so I checked their website and it does still say it works against Norovirus (see second image below).

https://ecohydra.com/collections/foams/products/foam-hand-sanitiser-50ml?variant=35801602195609

 

[luv2kroooz]

15 hours ago, ziggyuk said:

 

I won't even touch the door handle without tissue.
That said the covid thread that has just been shut claims a lack of soap in the washrooms.

So often, we can't get the soap dispensers to even dispense soap. Those touchless dispensers they have are a great idea, but if the sensor doesn't work, it is a problem. We also regularly observe a lack of hot water in most restroom sinks.

[ziggyuk]

16 minutes ago, luv2kroooz said:

So often, we can't get the soap dispensers to even dispense soap. Those touchless dispensers they have are a great idea, but if the sensor doesn't work, it is a problem. We also regularly observe a lack of hot water in most restroom sinks.

 

Those automatic systems are a real bugbear of mine, the worst are those that everything is over the sink and you have to wave your hands in the right place for soap and another spot for water and a third for air. They are so tricky to get right and a real example of tech for tech's sake.

[LandlockedCruiser01]

3 hours ago, ziggyuk said:

They are so tricky to get right and a real example of tech for tech's sake.

 

'Nuff said! 😄

 

[DCGuy64]

3 hours ago, ziggyuk said:

 

Those automatic systems are a real bugbear of mine, the worst are those that everything is over the sink and you have to wave your hands in the right place for soap and another spot for water and a third for air. They are so tricky to get right and a real example of tech for tech's sake.

I hate those things, too. They're so finicky, if you don't position your hands exactly right, they won't turn on. Give me the old-fashioned handles back! This is an unusual scenario, I admit, but: last Friday, I went to a restaurant where the power went out while I was there, due to a huge thunderstorm. I had to go to the bathroom, but was unable to wash my hands or dry them because both the faucet and hand dryer were electric! Grrr......