Making sense of PF/taxes

Just noticed a 5 day cruise RT from FLL with stops in Princess Cay and Jamaica has a $101 PF/tax cost. The seven day cruise RT from FLL with stops in Princess Cay, St Maarten, St Thomas, Grand Turk, and Princess Cay has a chg of $116. I can't believe Jamaica has huge fees since they have been losing cruise traffic for years. Makes no sense to me! Go figure!

I looked at both those itineraries and wondered the same thing! We're booked on a 7 day leaving Nov. 8 and thought about adding the 5 day before it. Since we're already going on a 5 day after it, we decided not to. But I checked the port fees and was surprised, especially since the 5 day we're booked on goes to Grand Cayman and Ocho Rios, and port fees and taxes are $97. So why would the other 5 day be more?

I looked at both those itineraries and wondered the same thing! We're booked on a 7 day leaving Nov. 8 and thought about adding the 5 day before it. Since we're already going on a 5 day after it, we decided not to. But I checked the port fees and was surprised, especially since the 5 day we're booked on goes to Grand Cayman and Ocho Rios, and port fees and taxes are $97. So why would the other 5 day be more?

Yes, we are considering the Nov 8th sailing of the Ruby. Hadn't seen the 5 day after. I'm guessing you are looking at changing ships to the Carribean Princess. I agree that trips PF/taxes of $97 which includes Grand Caymen but not Princess Cay really makes it strange. Looks like the Bahamas must have a hefty chg. I guess since Princess has so much invested there, they don't worry about Princess pulling out over this. Enjoy your cruise. Hopefully we will be cruising with you for at least one week. We also want to add at least a 5 day, but probably will need to stay on the same ship since my 90 year old father will be accompanying us.

Yes, we are considering the Nov 8th sailing of the Ruby. Hadn't seen the 5 day after. I'm guessing you are looking at changing ships to the Carribean Princess. I agree that trips PF/taxes of $97 which includes Grand Caymen but not Princess Cay really makes it strange. Looks like the Bahamas must have a hefty chg. I guess since Princess has so much invested there, they don't worry about Princess pulling out over this. Enjoy your cruise. Hopefully we will be cruising with you for at least one week. We also want to add at least a 5 day, but probably will need to stay on the same ship since my 90 year old father will be accompanying us.

Originally we booked the 5-day on the Ruby before the 7-day on Nov. 8th, but we decided it was worth changing ships to go to GC instead of Princess Cays twice. So yes, our 7-day is on the Ruby and 5-day is on the CB.

And since we have to tender to PC, shouldn't it be even less for port fees? Or doesn't that make a difference?

Originally we booked the 5-day on the Ruby before the 7-day on Nov. 8th, but we decided it was worth changing ships to go to GC instead of Princess Cays twice. So yes, our 7-day is on the Ruby and 5-day is on the CB.

 

And since we have to tender to PC, shouldn't it be even less for port fees? Or doesn't that make a difference?

I think the various governments chg what they think they can get away with. usually from my experience the more developed the country, the more they chg. Little islands needs the cruise visits so they usually are cheaper. But who knows!

I have never made sense of port taxes/fees. Last fall, on a small ship with 100 passengers, we paid $475 p/p for "port taxes" and fees. This for a ship off of Costa Rica that anchored at every stop except embark/disembark. Go figure. In May on Pacific Princess in Alaska where we were at dock each day, just over $100 p/p. I am so confused.:D

We're boarding a Carnival ship tomorrow. Five days going to two ports; Ocho Rios and Grand Cayman. Taxes and fees for this one - $99. Everything GC is expensive, not worth the tendering. I don't even get off the ship anymore.

We're boarding a Carnival ship tomorrow. Five days going to two ports; Ocho Rios and Grand Cayman. Taxes and fees for this one - $99. Everything GC is expensive, not worth the tendering. I don't even get off the ship anymore.

Glad to hear you and Mike are out on the seas again. Bon voyage!

Glad to hear you and Mike are out on the seas again. Bon voyage!

Thanks S. Just trying this on for size to see how manageable it is. They offered the right cabin for the right price.

Also, some of those fees are for departure/return ports. I think FLL is about $30-$40 pp RT for example.

I was just curious if you asked Princess to break down the taxes and port fees if they would do it. Has anyone ever asked for the break down?

I have never made sense of port taxes/fees. Last fall, on a small ship with 100 passengers, we paid $475 p/p for "port taxes" and fees. This for a ship off of Costa Rica that anchored at every stop except embark/disembark. Go figure. In May on Pacific Princess in Alaska where we were at dock each day, just over $100 p/p. I am so confused.:D

Jim did you perhaps make a Panamal canal transit. That adds hundreds to PF!

Jim did you perhaps make a Panamal canal transit. That adds hundreds to PF!

Nope. Just Costa Rica. Into and out of Puerto Caldera.

If you'll excuse me, it sounds like everyone is guessing. Does anyone really know what determines these taxes and fees? I sure haven't a clue.

I've seen cruises with lots of ports that have minimal added fees, and others with just a few that have a lot of extra charges. Quick examples are: A Caribbean cruise that hits six islands in seven days with about $70 in fees and East Coast fall trips that have four stops and about $200 in taxes and fees.

What gives? Anybody know?

Jim

I am another one that doesn't understand Port Fees and Taxes but I am not going to spend hours fretting over an extra $10 or $15 on a cruise that is costing thousands....they are what they are.

Over here in Los Angeles we can sail out of Long Beach (Carnival) or San Pedro ( everyone else). For the same itin sailing out of Long Beach is about $10 more.

Every port is issued a big dart board that they use to set their port fees. Just to make life more interesting, sometimes they throw an extra dart to change the fees for some sailings, just to make people on the internet wonder why things are so weird.

I think my baltic cruise was the worst, even higher than panama canal trips.

Port Fees and taxes are very confusing even to those of us who have been in the business for many years.

There are far too many different ways to compute them.

Some are based on the size of the ship.

Some are based on the number of people who are onboard when the ship arrives in port.

Some are based on the capacity of the ship regardless of the number of people onboard.

Some are based on sweetheart deals made with private owners of the piers.

Others are based on sweetheart deals made with the local government that controls the piers.

Some are based on the fact that the cruise line financed and built the pier.

Some are based on the flag the vessel flies on the stern.

Tendering usually results in lower taxes and fees - but not always.

Private islands usually have much lower taxes and fees - but not always.

Just like cruise fares, some times they are lower or higher depending on time of year and demand.

Just like cruise fares, they change frequently (up and down) without warning or explanation.

Often, the total taxes and port fees are calculated on a combination of the factors mentioned above.

We are booked on the ocean princess 35 day cruise in feb.The port taxes are ridiculous $635.00 per person.The insurance is only 325.00p/p are real bargain.

long cruiser

Just noticed a 5 day cruise RT from FLL with stops in Princess Cay and Jamaica has a $101 PF/tax cost. The seven day cruise RT from FLL with stops in Princess Cay, St Maarten, St Thomas, Grand Turk, and Princess Cay has a chg of $116. I can't believe Jamaica has huge fees since they have been losing cruise traffic for years. Makes no sense to me! Go figure!

Funny, I was just wondering the same thing. We're booked on the Nov. 3rd Ruby Princess 5-nt with stops in PC and Ocho Rios and I was astonished to see the $101 addl' fees. I thought it was quite a coincidence that the fees added to the cost for an inside ($199) came to a tidy $300. Do they pull these numbers out of a hat?!!!

$101 for a private island and Jamaica seems pretty outrageous - maybe it's their way of making up for the great fares and incentives? Not complaining really, just perplexed. I wish someone from Princess would respond.

What would Princess tell you? Port fees are set by the port (they can be negotiated). If Jamaica insists on $50 or more per person, that's what the lines have to charge. If you want to find out the specific fees for a port you can try calling the port authority itself.

Much like airline taxes, the ports know they have the power here and charge accordingly. And its competitive information, so they don't make it public easily.

Funny, I was just wondering the same thing. We're booked on the Nov. 3rd Ruby Princess 5-nt with stops in PC and Ocho Rios and I was astonished to see the $101 addl' fees. I thought it was quite a coincidence that the fees added to the cost for an inside ($199) came to a tidy $300. Do they pull these numbers out of a hat?!!!

 

$101 for a private island and Jamaica seems pretty outrageous - maybe it's their way of making up for the great fares and incentives? Not complaining really, just perplexed. I wish someone from Princess would respond.

When the Caribbean Princess skipped Princess Cays last month, we received a refund of the port fees on our account--around $18 per person. We had previously had an adjustment of around $7 per person credited to our onboard accounts, but I'm not sure which port that was for. Between these refunds and our other onboard credits, we ended up breaking even.

Oh one other thing to consider, fees not only vary by method but by date, day and dock.

So for example, a small ship docking on a Tuesday could pay $14/head, but a big ship docking on a sat could pay $25 per head plus a premium to use a larger or closer dock space.

What Carnival Corp, Princess parent, will not tell you is that they have agreements in place with a number of Caribbean island gov'ts to get the tax that we pay rebated back to Carnival corp cruise lines. Percentages rebated back are very high and they are tied to the cruise lines actually delivering a set number of people/tourists to each of those respective islands. Read about this in a book about cruise industry practices.

I'm guessing that a good portion of the charges come from the embarkation/disembarkation ports. The charges for dockage and wharfage for any given port are defined by the Port Tariff, which is typically publicly available. For example, you can find the port tariff for Port Everglades here:

http://www.porteverglades.net/includes/content/docs/media/Tariff-No.-12-entire10012013.pdf

A lot of it is stuff like rules and regulations, but it does also include a list of fees charged by the port for their services. Using the Ruby Princess (representative of the Crown class ships that use the port frequently) as an example, this is what the breakdown of fees would look like:

Dockage fees: 113,000 x 0.2418 = $27,323.40. Basically, every time the ship puills into port it costs them over $27,000 in fees. Divided by 3,080 passengers that comes out to about $8.87 per passenger. For the purposes of this exercise I'm going to assume that passengers would only be charged that once, since the cost would theoretically be shared between disembarking passengers and embarking passengers on any given turnaround day, and would even out.

Wharfage fees: This is a per-passenger fee that the port assesses for each passenger embarking or disembarking the ship or in transit. This means that the passengers will get charged this fee on each end, whether embarking, disembarking or in transit. The port tariff lists this fee as $9.578 per passenger, which will be charged twice on a round trip out of the port, plus once for each leg of a B2B.

Combining dockage and wharfage charges, that comes out to:

($9.58 * 2) + 8.87 = $28.03 per passenger for embarkation and disembarkation at Port Everglades, plus whatever pilotage fees add (I don't believe the Tariff covers those.

Pilotage is a separate fee which would also be included, and is a little trickier to figure out since it requires a formula based on ship's draft and gross registered tonnage. Pilotage rates for Port Everglades can be found here:

http://www.pepilots.com/rates.htm

Based on this formula, I figured out that pilotage for the Ruby Princess would cost $4,235, and would presumably be charged twice since pilots are required for each departure and arrival from the port. Breaking this down on a per-passenger basis, pilotage at Port Everglades would add $2.75 to the fees. Just out of curiosity, I calculated the pilotage fee for the Allure of the Seas, and found that it costs nearly twice as much at $8015.60 each time it goes in or out of the port just for pilotage. In spite of that, on a per-passenger basis it's only slightly more expensive, at $2.96 per passenger on a roundtrip cruise.

Presumably there are quite a few things not being accounted for here (such as the costs of using the cruise terminal, porters, pilots, etc.)

I didn't find a full port tariff for St. Thomas, but the following document indicates a per-passenger wharfage charge of $5.80, plus pilotage fees. It looks like this fee includes both dockage and wharfage, and for a ship with 3,080 passengers the total would come out to $17,864 per docking.

Pilotage: St. Thomas lists pilotage charges as $7.25 per draft foot, plus $0.006 per gross registered ton. For the Ruby Princess this would be:

(7.25 * 27) + (113,000 x 0.006) = $873.75

On a per-passenger basis, that comes out to roughly $0.28.

The document for St. Thomas is here:

http://www.viport.com/documents/Fees_and_Rates/2006_March_01_Amended_%20Effective_2014_April_23.pdf

I'm not going to try to find costs for St. Maarten or Eleuthera (which would be the other stops on a typical Eastern Caribbean cruise) but I suspect the fees would be similar. The port fees for a 7-day caribbean cruise come out to $106, so the Port Everglades fees would account for roughly a third of that, with the other ports contributing lesser portions. I'm also not sure what taxes are involved which would be included, so I'll leave that to someone else to figure out.