INSIGNIA to be long-term chartered to Hapag-Lloyd

[mringenoldus]

Let's hope it's nothing like the Titanic :eek:

Seriously, I am sure it will be just fine.

 

OK...you got me. Pretty funny :)

[Jancruz]

Just wondering if O will keep Regatta on the West Coast for the 2012 summer season. DW & I were looking forward to Alaska again, assuming O will continue up there. Probably depends on how well the 2011 itineraries are received.

 

If no more WC sailings, then it's audios O. Will not ever put up with what the TSA does to travelers. DW has to use a wheelchair when we travel, which means a sexual grope. She has said that will never happen to her.

 

I seriously doubt Regatta will be back again to Alaska!

Jancruz1

[umtali]

A number of varied thoughts come to mind..

It is very difficult for any shipping company to absorb the high costs of staff training for a new ship. The logistics alone, of alternating new and old crew members of existing ships, training newcomers to a high standard would be a nightmare.

 

I do feel that Oceania shedding one 'R' class. hopefully for only the short term charter, could have one of two results. One, limit peoples choices on small ship cruising, which for us has been a great attraction to Oceania, whilst trying to fill all berths on the larger ships, which are not as attractive (possibly) to the hardcore Oceania cruisers. I sincerely hope the 'Brand' of Oceania is not damaged in anyway with this move.

 

Another thought, which will always strike a chord, is, I hope that after the 2 year charter to Hapag Lloyd, with their European passengers most of whom are dedicated smokers, the ship is thoroughly steamcleaned on its return to 'our' fleet.

[tak2]

Nobody mentioned the third Marina class ship, which is an option. See Cruisecritic cruise news archives, Aug 3, 2008:While Marina is the Oceania's first "new" ship, debuting in fall 2010, a sister is planned as well, scheduled for a July 30, 2011 launch (and there's an option for a third ship).

 

 

My guess is Insignia will not be back, and the cruise line will run 3 M class and 2 R's ( for those who prefer a smaller ship ) Remember FDR is targetting the suite passengers of X, HAL, Princess, and they are more used to a cabin ( especially bathroom) larger than the PH's and A's of the R ships, and want a show lounge closer to that of mid size ships. See Avidcruiser, March 9, 2010,Q & A with FDR:I believe the majority of our new customers that will come to Marina will not come from Crystal. They’ll come from Holland America, they’ll come from Celebrity, they’ll come from Princess. If you take the upper suites on board Princess, Celebrity, Holland America and Cunard, just the upper suites, do you know what percentage of those customers I need to fill Marina? 1.2 percent. So why bother targeting Crystal? 1.2 percent of the upper suites [on the premium lines] fills Marina.

[potterhill]

" and there's an option for a third ship "

 

I seem to recall that this option was let go.....

 

Not surprised at Jan's comment re Alaska, but sorry to hear it as we are not able to go this summer. The writing has been on the wall for a while re that one, with all the discounts that have come out.

 

 

Mo

[LHT28]

 

I believe the majority of our new customers that will come to Marina will not come from Crystal. They’ll come from Holland America, they’ll come from Celebrity, they’ll come from Princess. If you take the upper suites on board Princess, Celebrity, Holland America and Cunard, just the upper suites, do you know what percentage of those customers I need to fill Marina? 1.2 percent. So why bother targeting Crystal? 1.2 percent of the upper suites [on the premium lines] fills Marina.

 

But will they pay O prices :confused:

[StanandJim]

But will they pay O prices

 

They already do, and more.

 

What do you think that a "top suite" costs on Hal, Princess. Celebrity or Cunard?

[LHT28]

They already do, and more.

 

What do you think that a "top suite" costs on Hal, Princess. Celebrity or Cunard?

 

Cunard maybe

I have no idea Princess & HAL do not show the prices for their top suites & the Mini suites seem to be comparable to PH @ $2000 to $5000 range without air

[GrammieK]

I have booked a "full" suite on Princess and HAL and while the prices may be competitive, there were some "+'s" on the these lines (more so on HAL than on Princess). Of course room size and bathroom size were big bonuses on both. Princess bathrooms are ridiculously large and I would have rathered that the extra space had been allotted to the balcony which was much too small. On HAL, the balcony was larger than on any other ship I've been on and the room was so large it was easy to entertain. Also the Neptune Lounge (but, alas, no butler), the Pinnacle breakfast and the "free" laundry were a great treat. The equalizer for us, however, is the dining plan on "O" So far, no other cruise that we have been on has been as easy or dependable. I think it comes down to "what are YOU looking for?" Of all of the cruises we have been on, our only clunker was Princess. Always a great time on HAL and O.

Kathie

I just remembered another O plus - prices usually include "free" air, not so on HAL. It makes a big difference.

[Bruin Steve]

I just got home from a cruise...

Saw this and was a little surprised...but not really...

Seems to be a way to ramp up by only 600 new passengers per cruise over the next couple of years (After already ramping up by 1200 with the introduction of Marina) rather than by 1200...Makes some sense...I am certain Oceania has been watching the economy and their selling trends and know how many new passengers to expect to accommodate...

 

I also expect those passengers to come, for the most part, from Celebrity or HAL rather than from the more expensive lines--especially with the capacity now more tilted to 1250 passenger ships rather than 680...

 

First, the numbers are just far greater on that side of the equation...Second, with the ships being a little larger, it's more likely to attract those accustomed to larger ships rather than those who want very small capacity ships...

 

I am one of those who generally sails on a variety of lines and, from my experience, I can tell you that Oceania is a bit more expensive...but not by all that much...within reason that someone who cruises on Celebrity or HAL would consider it...This is exactly what we've done when we've cruised on Oceania...When we see an "O" itinerary we really like, that difference in price becomes secondary...

 

I just priced some Norwegian Fjord itineraries for a cousin and, using this as an example, an 18 night Norwegian/Arctic cruise on Insignia, June 2011, starts at $7800 per person for a balcony cabin while a similar 18 night cruise on Princess (also an "R" ship) runs, for the same cabin, $5400...But the O price includes round trip air...so, absorb the air cost into the $2400 difference (I'm in Los Angeles and can tell you that this time of year this past summer, we paid about $1500 pp for a RT LAX to Heathrow) and the cost of the two is only about $900 pp apart...really not all that much...

 

Oceania also has a 12 nighter where a balcony cabin runs $6200 including air...

A Celebrity cruise, also 12 nights, around the same time, on Century, runs $3369 plus taxes and fees, without air...Add about $200 in taxes and $1500 for air and your are at about $5069...so, about an $1100 price difference from Oceania...

 

Wherever I do the comparison...with Celebrity, with HAL, with Princess, the price premium to go with Oceania rather than those lines is somewhere around $1000 pp give or take a little...

 

I will not knock those cruise lines and just assumes that everyone is convinced Oceania is obviously better and instantly justifies that $1000 premium (even though most on this board likely do)...What one likes or dislikes in a cruise is a matter of personal preferences and opinion...I believe it is a good bet that a majority of those who are satisfied with one of those lines will not find it attractive to pay extra to jump to Oceania...

 

But, Oceania doesn't need a majority of those cruisers..just some of them...

And some cruisers will look at a $1000 premium as minor...They might find a particular quirk in the itinerary as reason enough to jump...or perhaps just the opportunity to try Oceania...some, rather than pay a premium to jump, may just step down a category...maybe it's an equal jump from a Celebrity Sky Suite to an ordinary balcony on Oceania or from a HAL balcony to an "O" oceanview...

 

It is really not all that big a stretch to see Oceania pulling enough passengers from these other lines to fill the new cabins...especially if the "O" reputation offers what some of these passengers want...Some may be moderately unhappy with changes they experience on other lines and want to try something they hope will be better...

 

It's not like trying to get Carnival regulars to jump to Seabourne or Silverseas...it's not passengers that typically cruise on a 4,000 passenger party ship for $699 per person suddenly stretching to pay $6,000 a week...

 

But, the question in this economy is can you grow the passenger list by 1,200 per cruise...or is it more prudent to expect 600? And that seems to be what Oceania has decided...In two years, they can know that they have the option to pull Insignia back in and grow by another 680 passenger spaces...or they can charter her out again if the segment doesn't grow...

 

Where there is a risk is in decreasing the capacity on SMALL ships in favor of slightly larger ships...It looks like they feel confident that their public will like the 1250 passenger ships...

 

It also does sound like the Alaska/Pacific experiment will be just a one year thing...4 ships in Europe, we ARE just talking Summers starting 2012...So Australia, South AMerica, etc are still likely WINTER destinations...but Alaska does appear out...

[sitraveler]

I'm almost sorry I've booked Marina's repo in Mar 2012 over Insignia's last Oceania voyage, but I've got to try the bigger ship. Really, REALLY spoiled by the care and attention on the smaller ships.

[wripro]

I agree with Jan re: REgatta in Alaska. don't think the sales have been spectacular.

[Leonid]

1. As much as I don't want to believe that Jan is right, Alaska will probably be a one year adventure. Too much competition. Glad we've got an OS for the Aug. sailing.

 

2. Regarding O's summer 2012 itineraries, does someone have a crystal ball or insider information? I haven't seen or received any info. to date. Could this be a PIROOMA ? (figure it out...not to hard) :D

[MightyQuinn]

Nobody mentioned the third Marina class ship, which is an option.

As Potterhill mentioned, Oceania declined to exercise their option with Fincantieri for a 3rd new-build.

http://travelweekly.com/cruise/article3_ektid223764.aspx

[gillianrose]

1. As much as I don't want to believe that Jan is right, Alaska will probably be a one year adventure. Too much competition. Glad we've got an OS for the Aug. sailing.

 

You have a great stateroom, but will you have the best staff to serve you, not just in your stateroom, but all over the ship?

 

That's the concern I have from posts I have been reading.

[RJB]

Well, if they keep getting rid of the small ships, which we love it will be the end of us on O. the new ships are just tooo big. We will switch to silver sea or Seaborne. :(

[Leonid]

You have a great stateroom, but will you have the best staff to serve you, not just in your stateroom, but all over the ship?

 

That's the concern I have from posts I have been reading.

 

Firmly believe that this sailing will be no different than our previous five. Expect great service, food and accommodations. FDR will not let O slip. Don't believe the naysayers.

[vaitape]

Well, if they keep getting rid of the small ships, which we love it will be the end of us on O. the new ships are just tooo big. We will switch to silver sea or Seaborne. :(

 

Ditto for us...we don't mind the size of the stateroom or even the bathroom (which is admittedly small but very efficient). We've been on Nautica for a b2b total of 39 days (from Thailand to China to Hong Kong in March/April) so you can imagine the variety of clothes we needed to cover all the climates and we had plenty of room for all our gear.

We love that there are 700 people on the ship.....plenty to share a port (or the pool!) with rather than almost twice as many. Just our preference but no more big ships for us.

[Rickey 88]

The two year lease of the Insignia to Hapag-Lloyd makes some sense. With the Riviera launching in April of 2014, the leasing takes effect at the same time - net result to Oceania is 400 new berths, which should be easier to fill in this economy, compared to taking on 1,200 new berths - a task in slow times.

 

The only concern I have is that if you have not sailed on a German ship, you will not have any idea of the odor of smoke left around. Germans are heavy smokers, including cigars, and there did not appear to be any restrictions to any passenger.

 

I can only hope the Oceania plans to take the Insignia back in 2016 and immediately dip it into a solution of deodorant and cleanser - for at least a week!! :rolleyes:

[gbucky]

We are booked on the Insignia for Jan3, 2012 and I am concerned about quality. Might we be left with crew that feels it doesn't matter anymore. Have a call in to my TA about this.

[StanandJim]

We are booked on the Insignia for Jan3, 2012 and I am concerned about quality. Might we be left with crew that feels it doesn't matter anymore. Have a call in to my TA about this.

 

 

I think that you may wind up being better served. The Insignia staff will all be vying for positions on the Riviera, which is due to debut in April of 2012.

Working on the Marina class is seen as a plum job, because they have superior crew accommodations and facilities.

[Oceans&Rivers]

The two year lease of the Insignia to Hapag-Lloyd makes some sense. With the Riviera launching in April of 2014, the leasing takes effect at the same time - net result to Oceania is 400 new berths, which should be easier to fill in this economy, compared to taking on 1,200 new berths - a task in slow times.

 

The only concern I have is that if you have not sailed on a German ship, you will not have any idea of the odor of smoke left around. Germans are heavy smokers, including cigars, and there did not appear to be any restrictions to any passenger.

 

I can only hope the Oceania plans to take the Insignia back in 2016 and immediately dip it into a solution of deodorant and cleanser - for at least a week!! :rolleyes:

 

Change has come to German ships, too. According to Hapag-Lloyd's own website, the following is the current policy:

 

"SMOKING

All public spaces, the restaurant, Palmgarten and lounge are non-smoking areas with the exception of the bar section of the lounge and the portside of the wine bar as well as designated areas at the pool.

 

All of the cabins are non-smoking cabins."

 

Yes, that's not as good as Azamara or Oceania or Celebrity, but certainly better than many other lines.

[2kiwis]

No doubt the new ships will be beautiful and staterooms more comfortable but it will be interesting to see if the wonderful Oceania atmosphere generated on the smaller ships can be re-created on new ships with double the capacity.

 

We have always cruised with Oceania because of the smaller ship size and are a bit dismayed to hear that (for whatever reason) they are dropping one of the smaller ships. Will this become a new trend so that we will have to look elsewhere for smaller ship cruising?

 

If it comes down to atmosphere or flasher ships - give us atmosphere every time.

[Rickey 88]

2kiwis - I would suggest that it is far too premature to proclaim the demise of the smaller "O" ships.

 

What Oceania is doing is leasing the Insignia to Hapag-Lloyd for a period of two years only. Then the ship will be returned to the fleet. In the intervening period, the Riviera will be launched, lessening the impact of new berths a bit. By 2014, hopefully the need for additional passenger space will be filled by the Insignia's return.

[wripro]

2kiwis,

 

As a veteran Seabourn cruiser I can pretty much tell you that the atmosphere aboard a larger ship will be different from the smaller ones. I'm not saying one is better than the other, though I have my personal opinion, but it is different on the two larger ships than on the small ones. I suspect the same will hold true on O. I look forward to my experience on the Marina in March/April to find out. Again, I'm not saying either will be better than the other but a 68000 ton ship with 1250 passengers HAS to be different from a 30000 ton ship with 684.