Zuiderdam - still has awful toilet issues!!

[mainelycruising]

I think this is a big problem for HAL as they try to position themselves a step above the mass market lines "A Signature of Excellence". As said other lines are spending lots to upgrade their ships while HAL isn't even fixing them. They can only ride on a smiling crew so long. I wonder why Carnival is letting this brand go to pot?

.

 

As a past cruiser, I receive offers from HAL in which the lowest cruise price is less than $100 a day. Ten, even fifteen years ago it was rare to see one offering a cruise at less than $200 a day. That does not take inflation into account. Can anyone not see why investment in ships, and in quality on board, has fallen?

 

I expect the answer to your last question is that HAL (as we know and love it) no longer fits into any category that produces the profits over investment that CCL demands. CCL has been running the line based upon its name and reputation without investing much into the 'concept'. What it has invested in seems to differ from the elegance that HAL was known for. In addition, there are now other cruise lines in direct competition after what had been HAL's bread and butter clientele. HAL has (or is it now 'had'?) the highest percentage of repeat cruisers of any line. If that market turns elsewhere, I do not see where HAL will find enough of a new market to cause CCL to invest in it. There are too many competitors.

 

Someone replied to my earlier post, raising issue with my referral to the Prinsendam as 'an anomaly'. I meant by that comment that, as an older ship with great elegance and charm, she is outside the mold of the 'pack 'em in' Vista class. She is almost a 'line within a line'. Perhaps she is a harbinger of HAL's future - like Oceania, have fewer - yet more elegant and traditional - and smaller - ships in the fleet, carry fewer passengers in more luxurious surroundings; then charge accordingly, and make HAL the most traditional, intimate and -dare I say it - expensive line in its fleet. HAL is not, and never will be, mass market. Instead, CCL bean clounters should look back to the traditions of the old Rotterdam, the Grande Dame of the Seas. Elegant. Exclusive. On a human scale. It is what the legacy of HAL deserves, and it would be financially viable. A line for the 1%ers. There is nothing wrong with that. But do it before the brand is besmirched beyond redemption.

Edited May 14, 2012 by mainelycruising

[iancal]

Cruise Master...my sister and BIL were on a Celebrity cruise though the Panama canal. San Diego-Ft. Lauderdale. They just disembarked on April 25.

 

Not certain what ship they were on but they had no issues with A/C or plumbing. Maybe cruisers on that ship kept their balcony doors closed.....or maybe the ship they were on was properly maintained.

 

It came down to Princess, HAL, and Celebrity for them. They went with the best deal and from the reports from the Zuiderdam it seems that they selected the 'right' ship. No doubt Princess would have been fine as well.

[iancal]

Cruise Master...we have exactly the same attitude as you toward vacation money and vacation time.

 

Unlike others on this board, we are not 'married' to any cruise line-we select based on ship and itinerary.

 

I think some of the folks on the recent Z cruise had a much better than 1 percent chance of having a bad cabin since it has been reported that at one point all the toilets on three decks were out.

 

But it really does not matter and why anyone would have any interest in influencing you on how to spend YOUR vacation time and YOUR money is beyond me.

 

And, if the one percent rule is there....why even take a chance. Just one reason why we would never sail on Veendam, let alone the Z as we see no reason to take any risks with our vacation when there are plenty of other good alternatives out there.

 

Now, if HAL were to put either of these ships in extended dry dock to resolve known issues then we would certainly consider them.

Edited May 14, 2012 by iancal

[hypercafe]

When I booked my trip it was down to HAL and Princess as both do RT panama canal from FL. I chose the Zuiderdam based on my previous HAL trips and their hype. I spent 7 grand on the ship. I wish I had taken Princess!!! I will not make this mistake again. I bet HAL loves to hear how much the cheerleaders love them but I bet they would rather have my money. They better change their plan cause there ships are to small to go head to head with the rest of the mass market lines.

[janisutx]

Hi Portas, we missed you after you left... we got very noisy neighbours for the 4 days:( I hear you about some of the comments - amazed that some here think we were all lying:eek: One of our roll call is heading down to Seattle tomorrow to deal with them in person, and he is definitely not a happy cruiser! Maybe after this cruise they will finally do something to fix the problems once and for all, given the number of incidents and complaints. The ship needs to be dry-docked for an extended period and not just getting band-aid fixes.

 

Thanks to all of you who posted about the plumbing and AC problems on the Zuiderdam. It is a big help to other CC members even if some want to deny reality. As long as too many just take it and keep booking poorly maintained ships, HAL won't change.

[iancal]

To the contrary. We have never had a bad cruise.

 

Our last three cruise have been on Equinox, Constellation, and Millennium. They were all last minute cruises.

 

We were thrilled with all three, most especially the Equinox. We find the Solstice class ships to be among the nicest that we have been on (to our taste).

 

Also very much enjoyed Westerdam, Spirit, Sun Princess, NCL Sun, Star Princess, Crystal Symphony. The list goes on.

 

With careful research and an attitude that makes us open to any cruise line we have been able to avoid the 'duds' and have some wonderful cruises. Best value for our travelling dollar.

 

It is just that we can recognize a 'dud' when we see or hear about it. We do not feel that we need to make excuses simply to justify going on a particular cruise line.

 

Fortunately, no one on any of these lines ever seemed to leave their balcony doors open...well perhaps they did but we never experienced any A/C issues. Or plumbing issues for that matter.

[3rdGenCunarder]

.

 

<snip>

 

Someone replied to my earlier post, raising issue with my referral to the Prinsendam as 'an anomaly'. I meant by that comment that, as an older ship with great elegance and charm, she is outside the mold of the 'pack 'em in' Vista class. She is almost a 'line within a line'. Perhaps she is a harbinger of HAL's future - like Oceania, have fewer - yet more elegant and traditional - and smaller - ships in the fleet, carry fewer passengers in more luxurious surroundings; then charge accordingly, and make HAL the most traditional, intimate and -dare I say it - expensive line in its fleet. HAL is not, and never will be, mass market. Instead, CCL bean clounters should look back to the traditions of the old Rotterdam, the Grande Dame of the Seas. Elegant. Exclusive. On a human scale. It is what the legacy of HAL deserves, and it would be financially viable. A line for the 1%ers. There is nothing wrong with that. But do it before the brand is besmirched beyond redemption.

 

That doesn't seem likely. When friends were on Veendam last summer, the captain told the people at the mariner brunch that HAL did intend to build more ships, but not mega ships. Sadly, also not as small as Veendam. He said anything they build in the near future will be in the 2000 passenger neighborhood. to me that says Vista or something on that scale.

[hypercafe]

When is the last time you sat on a toilet that was used but not flushed, that is a bad smell. When you do think "Signature of Excellence" and maybe the smell will go away!!!

[iancal]

We are far from being anti-HAL.

 

Or is that the only statement that you can make about someone who chooses not to sail on certain HAL ships?

 

Not everyone who detracts from a HAL ship or specific HAL cruise is anti-HAL, an out and out liar, a know nothing, or a world traveler who has no issue in not getting what one pays for.

 

If that is your measure then we are also anti Princess, anti Celebrity, anti Carnival, and anti NCL. Because there are one or two ships on each of those cruise lines that we prefer not to sail on for various reasons. On the other hand, there are several ships in each of those cruise lines that we would sail on in a minute.

 

We are in fact watching pricing on Noordam and Eurodam. Two HAL ships that are at the top of our list...Noordam in particular. It just comes down to a competitive price/value for a verandah and the scheduling of an add on land tour around it so we get the most from the hassle of air travel and the cost of air travel.

 

Our view is that, based on prior experience, HAL has some great ships and wonderful itineraries. The trick is picking the right ship that meets our preferences and has no ongoing reports of failures impacting cabin comfort. It is really a very straightforward choice for us.

Edited May 14, 2012 by iancal

[Wakepatrol]

Resolving A/C and plumbing issues will take much longer than a 7-10 day drydock. What the staff told you was correct. Therein lies the real issue. HAL is probably not prepared to take the ships out of revenue service for a longer period.

 

They will do some band aid work, then budget for some additonal OBC credits to be handed out to the poor souls who end up in the flood zones or the no A/C areas and who complain loud enough.

 

Are you privy to all the inner workings of a ship being drydocked and how long it takes to fix a problem? How would you know this? Perhaps the toilet snafu needs a $1.89 gasket they just can't get to without a drydock. If we go with your theory,why bother drydocking the ship? just keep putting a band-aid on and keep sailing.

 

Too many know it alls... too few craftsmen

[hypercafe]

I bet if a HAL ship sank some would say that those lousy pas. Opened the sea cocks and let the water in. Maybe it's best if they sail empty.

[localady]

I find it interesting and actually quite puzzling that HAL is willingly continuing to sail the ship with such widespread mechanical/sanitation/comfort issues. This is a time when direct competitors are taking ships out of service for long drydocks to perform major upgrades and overhauls. Celebrity, Royal Caribbean, and Carnival are currently all in a multi-year process of upgrading their fleets. There may be others as well, but those are the lines I know about without doing any research.:o At some point cruisers are going to decide even the greatest itinerary isn't enough to risk major plumbing or A/C issues on a cruise and look elsewhere.

 

If you look carefully at the upgrades/rebuilds going on through out the fleets, they are all aimed at adding more revenue generating space, whether it be more cabins or additional (for pay) restaurants and venues.

The fixes that HAL needs are NOT revenue generating thus I am sure they are performed only as necessary with the least expense, especially the a/c and plumbing. You can see that from a "Bean Counters" perspective in a revenue driven environment.:rolleyes:

I do believe that these fixes are critical to the healthy running of a vessel as there are vessels I won't return to because of prior bad mechanical system experiences.

[janisutx]

i bet if a hal ship sank some would say that those lousy pas. Opened the sea cocks and let the water in. Maybe it's best if they sail empty.

 

lol

Edited May 14, 2012 by janisutx

[Wakepatrol]

I bet if a HAL ship sank some would say that those lousy pas. Opened the sea cocks and let the water in. Maybe it's best if they sail empty.

 

 

I recently read on here that an anchor hanging half way down going out an inlet was used for steering:eek:

[Responder]

When is the last time you sat on a toilet that was used but not flushed, that is a bad smell. When you do think "Signature of Excellence" and maybe the smell will go away!!!

 

I believe the "Signature of Excellence" has gone away but certainly not the smell..we had it on the last Veendam cruise and hope it is not too bad on the upcoming Maasdam. :rolleyes:

[Cindy]

I bet if a HAL ship sank some would say that those lousy pas. Opened the sea cocks and let the water in. Maybe it's best if they sail empty.

 

Good one, hypercafe!:D

 

 

Those "few disgruntled people".... hmm, well I guess I am one of them even though I made it clear again and again that I had a fantastic cruise.... but I digress - those few were probably the majority of the ship during Grand Turk day and the total plumbing shutdown. But those who had ongoing problems will likely make things much better for future cruisers after making their complaints known.

 

I wonder what those of you who have discounted our reports think we have to gain by posting about the issues. It must be quite the conspiracy, so many unconnected people posting about the same events and breakdowns on the same ship.

 

I think there are many, many believers startwin! I appreciate what you've done to make future cruisers aware of the situation so they can make informed decisions about whether to keep a booking on the Zuiderdam or choose another ship.

Perhaps if HAL has enough people "jump ship" they will find that an unplanned and lengthy drydock is cheaper in the long run than continuing to ignore the problems. Cruise Critic menbers are just a very small percentage of those who cruise, but eventually word of the problems will get out through other sources.

[luxurysailer]

We are repeat cruisers with HAL and have a cruise scheduled for March 2013. But, based upon our experience sailing once on Zuiderdam and the multiple comments we've read on CC, we will never sail on Zuiderdam again. No ifs, ands, or buts.

[puli]

Just canceled our March 2013 partial Panama Canal on the Zuiderdam.

 

Was referred by HAL over the weekend to contact Ship's Services today to see how extensive the Non.30 to Dec.10 2012 dry docking would be. I was by ship's Services that they never know what will be done until after the ship returns to service. It is hard to believe they have no idea and that HAL reservations would not know what the response would be. It was the waste of a call.

 

the Panama Canal area is no place to be with the possibility of no A/C and /or working toilet!

[kazu]

I am what some might call a HAL cheerleader but there was nothing about the problems people were encountering all over the ship to cheer about this time. I went on the cruise determined to overlook the wear and tear, which I did for the most part. Toilets and AC were big topics of discussion when meeting new passengers.

 

The ship has major issues. Period.

The staff are wonderful and made us feel very welcome. We were well looked after in that respect. The food was delicious and I have the extra pounds to prove it. There was a very large CC representation on this cruise which made for lots of interaction.

We had a fantastic cruise except for the truly miserable day when the air was shut down. The temperature in our cabin was 85 degrees and it was uninhabitable. We were preparing to sleep on deck where it was also sweltering when the announcement came that air was restored.

The toilet system failure day was no walk in the park either. People are not lying about what happened.

 

I really could not recommend that a friend sail on the Zuiderdam unless they were ready to roll the dice on AC and toilets.

 

The Zuiderdam is a lovely ship and the crew work hard at cleaning and polishing, but I would be less than honest if I said there were no major issues. People pay a lot of money for their cruises and they don't want to put up with less than they paid for.

 

Sapper - first of all welcome home:)

 

We really appreciate (or at least I do) the time and money it took to post on the conditions on the ship. I can't believe that some people are making claims of ulterior motives:eek:

 

We were on this ship two years ago and it was glorious. It is so sad that it has denigrated to this.

 

Appreciate yours and startwins frankness and honesty and based on what you have faced - we can all make our own conclusions - but I think to choose wisely - until they fix the problem and actually address it - this is a ship to skip. Sad but true.

 

Thanks to both of you for sharing and again - welcome home:):)

[startwin]

I am what some might call a HAL cheerleader but there was nothing about the problems people were encountering all over the ship to cheer about this time. I went on the cruise determined to overlook the wear and tear, which I did for the most part. Toilets and AC were big topics of discussion when meeting new passengers.

 

The ship has major issues. Period.

The staff are wonderful and made us feel very welcome. We were well looked after in that respect. The food was delicious and I have the extra pounds to prove it. There was a very large CC representation on this cruise which made for lots of interaction.

We had a fantastic cruise except for the truly miserable day when the air was shut down. The temperature in our cabin was 85 degrees and it was uninhabitable. We were preparing to sleep on deck where it was also sweltering when the announcement came that air was restored.

The toilet system failure day was no walk in the park either. People are not lying about what happened.

 

I really could not recommend that a friend sail on the Zuiderdam unless they were ready to roll the dice on AC and toilets.

 

The Zuiderdam is a lovely ship and the crew work hard at cleaning and polishing, but I would be less than honest if I said there were no major issues. People pay a lot of money for their cruises and they don't want to put up with less than they paid for.

 

Hey Sapper, glad to see you got home safely - done all the laundry yet? LOL! It's so hard getting back to reality, and we really enjoyed our time with you and your DH. So many good memories (ahhh, Margaritaville!)

 

I second everything you said about the crew - they were amazing - and let's face it, they sure had a lot of unhappy pax to deal with, but they kept on smiling - and cleaning, and polishing, and fixing..... and heck, I even ended up liking most of the front office staff too!

[serendipity1499]

There was a time when HAL was incomparable..........a traditional cruise line with an illustrious heritage. Then, it was bought by Carnival and, for a while, it maintained that heritage. But the advent of Vista Class ships began the decline we see today..........evidence that the profit motive has overwhelmed any semblance of tradition and quality. The staff continue to impress despite the ships and materials with which they have to work. We now have four Statendam ships that are tired and nearing the end of their lives as 'premium' ships; three anomalies (Prinsendam, Amsterdam and Rotterdam) which too are dated, and the Vistas, which appear to have been poorly built and/or poorly maintained. HAL has a problem and I hope it does not spread to another CCL company, Cunard.

 

CCL runs good cheap 'pile 'em high/price 'em cheap' cruises, and whatever it claims, it ultimately brings all of its products to that standard. :cool:

 

I'm certainly not a HAL cheerleader but disagree with your post..

 

How many of your cruises have been on ships you believe to be poorly built or out-dated?

Carnival Cruise Lines purchased HAL in 1989, 23 years ago..What in heavens name does Carnival Corp. have to do with what you call "pile them high price them cheap" cruises..All ships/boats which are in sea water/air 24/7 will deteriorate much faster than a ship/boat which is not in constant service.. Salt air & Salt water contribute to parts deterioration & breakdowns.. Any Seaman will confirm this..That's why ships/boats must be constantly monitored & maintained..We live on Salt water & our home air has to be checked for deterioration every 6 months..We even had to replace our air cond. unit twice in 23 years..We spent thousands of $$$ on our boat maintenance even though it was on a lift & DH painted it yearly & did most of the work himself...

HAL was always & still is an autonomous company.. They are the ones who are responsible for the bad press not Carnival..You also have to remember that Cruise Critic is a fairly new company, compared to HAL & most other cruise lines..As more Psgrs become Internet savvy, problems will be reported faster & more often..It will be up to HAL, not Carnival, to handle the bad press..

We have been cruising on HAL since 1998 & are soon to embark on our 14th cruise on the Prinsendam..All of our cruises have been wonderful up to now, but now I'm becoming concerned about the AC & toilet problems which have been reported by CC members..Prior to this we've occasionally had AC & plumbing problems on several different cruise lines, but so far they have always been repaired in a timely manner..IMO saying that the Vista ships were poorly built & the Prinsendam, Rotterdam & Amsterdam are outdated is pure nonsense..Do you know how many years other cruise lines have their ships in service or are you a Maritime Engineer/Shipbuilder?

Betty

[iancal]

Seabourn and Cunard are both owned by Carnival. I do not think either of these cruise lines could be described as 'pile 'em high/keep 'em cheap lines even though they are in the Carnival Corp. family of cruise lines.

 

HAL was essentially insolvent when Carnival acquired them. They were going out of business fast-did not have the credit to build or buy new ships.

 

Carnival may have made changes to HAL, but on the other hand HAL has had 23 more years that they would not have had if Carnival had not rescued them. Just another way of looking at things!

Edited May 15, 2012 by iancal

[twinkletoes4445]

Those "few disgruntled people".... hmm, well I guess I am one of them even though I made it clear again and again that I had a fantastic cruise.... but I digress - those few were probably the majority of the ship during Grand Turk day and the total plumbing shutdown. But those who had ongoing problems will likely make things much better for future cruisers after making their complaints known.

 

I wonder what those of you who have discounted our reports think we have to gain by posting about the issues. It must be quite the conspiracy, so many unconnected people posting about the same events and breakdowns on the same ship.

 

This is exactly why I almost didn't say anything about our issues. I know exactly how you feel. Too many people saying the same thing over and over.

[Tampa Girl]

Seriously, I really doubt she would.

 

What, possibly, gives you the basis for making such a statement?

[sapper1]

Hey Sapper, glad to see you got home safely - done all the laundry yet? LOL! It's so hard getting back to reality, and we really enjoyed our time with you and your DH. So many good memories (ahhh, Margaritaville!)

 

I second everything you said about the crew - they were amazing - and let's face it, they sure had a lot of unhappy pax to deal with, but they kept on smiling - and cleaning, and polishing, and fixing..... and heck, I even ended up liking most of the front office staff too!

 

We got in at 1:30 AM---half dead. Laundry is piled up to the ceiling.

When we got in the door we found that the furnace was stuck on. We had to throw the breaker switch at the main panel to shut it down. Then I had to open windows to cool the bedroom off enough to sleep. I thought we were back on the Zuiderdam but there was no front desk to call.

 

We did have fun didn't we?