This Thread Is To Be Used For All Discussions About HAL's On Board Smoking Policies

[jtl513]

Exactly. If there have been HAL ships that prohibited outdoor smoking in Glacier Bay, it certainly is not a company wide policy because as proven in my picture, it wasn't the case on Zuiderdam.

I've read before that cigarette smoking was banned in GB. Could it be a NPS rule that the Zuiderdam was not enforcing rather than a HAL policy or rule? I'd like to hear what one of my two favorite authorities on all things cruising, BruceMuzz or chengkp75, has to say about this.

[kennicott]

http://www.cnn.com/2015/11/17/health/smoking-rate-decline/

I disagree that HAL is "heavily" dependent on smokers. If no other line was, it stands to reason that HAL also is not.

 

I agree that many other lines weren't once dependent on courting smokers as guests, however, that was back during the days when smoking was allowed all over ships, including, on many, on balconies and within staterooms.

 

The problem began after the majors within the industry all began reduction policies of on board smoking. After they all, with the exception of HAL and Costa, eliminated balcony smoking there was a migration of smokers over to HAL.

 

Judging from previous discussions on this thread it appears logical that on HAL ships only about 8% of their guests once smoked. That percentage has obviously increased, as to what extent is a good question.

 

However, today, HAL, when considering banning balcony smoking, is faced with the dilemma of altering a business model where a significant percentage of their guests are smokers. To undertake a policy alteration of such magnitude could have disastrous economic consequences in the form of decimated revenues if a migration in the opposite direction should then take place.

 

That is why many here believe, as a minimum, HAL will have to install dedicated and exclusive smoker lounges in all their ships before they tackle this. And, they do not appear inclined to provide such lounges at this point in time.

Edited August 16, 2016 by kennicott

[kazu]

We will be cruising on Nieuw Amsterdam 10/23 with our older son who smokes and I have several questions.

 

Do the ships sell cigarettes by the pack? I have seen the large duty free packages but never paid attention to sold by the pack since we do not smoke.

 

Does anyone know how much a pack of cigarettes cost on the ship?

 

I have found what he can bring back duty free, including cigarettes. I know about designated smoking locations, they have a veranda cabin.

 

Anything else that maybe helpful to him, thanks. Linda

 

They sell packs of cigarettes in the bars. LImited choice. Duty free is a better option (and cheaper) for choice as he can take it back to his cabin.

 

I'm not sure but I think a pack was around $7?

 

I am trying to remember the prices I saw for the duty free and I could be in error but I think that cartons were something like 2 for $66? That has probably changed and my memory is very short.

 

hope this helps a bit.

 

totally up to your son, but I made arrangements with our neighbours so that we could both enjoy our balconies. It was easy to do and I can't tell you how much better it makes the balcony for everyone ;)

[Aquahound]

I've read before that cigarette smoking was banned in GB. Could it be a NPS rule that the Zuiderdam was not enforcing rather than a HAL policy or rule? I'd like to hear what one of my two favorite authorities on all things cruising, BruceMuzz or chengkp75, has to say about this.

 

The Country Inn lodge in Glacier Bay allows smoking outdoors, so it's not a NPS rule.

 

A friend of mine just returned from a Princess cruise to Alaska. There were no smoking restrictions in Glacier Bay for them either.

[Heartgrove]

The Country Inn lodge in Glacier Bay allows smoking outdoors, so it's not a NPS rule.

 

 

Sorry but the inn is on private property that is outside of Glacier Bay National Park.

 

The NPS DO#50D is the order. It is rather broad in scope but does allow for individual circumstances by the Superintendent. Further research will probably reveal the specific order related to Glacier Bay. "No Smoking" was announced on the Niew Amsterdam in June. Of course, not feeding the local animal life was as well.

[Lizzie68]

Sorry but the inn is on private property that is outside of Glacier Bay National Park.

 

The NPS DO#50D is the order. It is rather broad in scope but does allow for individual circumstances by the Superintendent. Further research will probably reveal the specific order related to Glacier Bay. "No Smoking" was announced on the Niew Amsterdam in June. Of course, not feeding the local animal life was as well.

 

No smoking in Glacier Bay plus a stern warning to idiots feeding gulls off an aft balcony on the NA earlier this year. Plus, no smoking in Glacier Bay on each ship I have been on previously.

[Cruzaholic41]

July 2015 - Westerdam - outdoor smoking was permitted in Glacier Bay, as it was on all my cruises there on 2 different cruise lines.

 

Just another Cruise Critic rule that is in contrast to reality.

[innlady1]

Omgosh, seriously, lizzie? On any cruise we've been on, there have been stern warnings not to feed the wildlife.

[retdon]

They sell packs of cigarettes in the bars. LImited choice. Duty free is a better option (and cheaper) for choice as he can take it back to his cabin.

 

I'm not sure but I think a pack was around $7?

 

I am trying to remember the prices I saw for the duty free and I could be in error but I think that cartons were something like 2 for $66? That has probably changed and my memory is very short.

 

hope this helps a bit.

 

totally up to your son, but I made arrangements with our neighbours so that we could both enjoy our balconies. It was easy to do and I can't tell you how much better it makes the balcony for everyone ;)

 

Thanks K......

We have 10 veranda cabins in a row (our Hialeah High group) so he will be next to a classmate of mine. Not sure if there will be any other smokers as 2 couples are friends of classmates. He is next to elevator with the group on the other side so no unhappy cruisers next to him.

 

I did not know they could bring the duty free back to cabin, thought it was just like duty free liquor. I know I can always count on my CC friends for answers, thanks, Linda

[kennicott]

Sorry but the inn is on private property that is outside of Glacier Bay National Park.

 

The NPS DO#50D is the order. It is rather broad in scope but does allow for individual circumstances by the Superintendent. Further research will probably reveal the specific order related to Glacier Bay. "No Smoking" was announced on the Niew Amsterdam in June. Of course, not feeding the local animal life was as well.

 

That is correct, for many years I have spent my summers in the middle of the Nation's largest National Park and Preserve in Alaska. As a general rule no NPS regulations are applicable on private property inholdings.

 

There are a few exceptions, but those are debatable and subject to scrutiny. In Glacier Bay one might argue that cruise ships are "private property", however access to the Bay is highly regulated and access is contingent on a permit only basis. Compliance with all NPS rules is a stipulation in the permit I believe. In the past, lines have been penalized for non-compliance with permit provisions by being barred from entering the Bay for extended periods of time.

[kazu]

Thanks K......

We have 10 veranda cabins in a row (our Hialeah High group) so he will be next to a classmate of mine. Not sure if there will be any other smokers as 2 couples are friends of classmates. He is next to elevator with the group on the other side so no unhappy cruisers next to him.

 

I did not know they could bring the duty free back to cabin, thought it was just like duty free liquor. I know I can always count on my CC friends for answers, thanks, Linda

 

You are very welcome. Smart on the cabins too :)

 

As far as duty free goes,anything you buy there is brought back to your cabin EXCEPT liquor (at least to the best of my knowledge). We've made a few purchases there over time and the only thing held until the last night has been the alcoholic beverages.

[kevingastreich]

You might want to look up (if you can see past your halo) and look at those large rounds things sticking out of the top of the ship belching soot and other nasties out. They are pushing out way more crap than a few cigarettes.

 

Do you think the ship suddenly stops polluting when it goes into your 'sacred piece of heaven'?

 

HeHe Good one. P.S. are the native Inuits not allowed to smoke there either?

[PrincessPete]

We have been on dozens of cruises but never on Holland America. I am a bit of a “ship nut” and go on lots of ship visits and have been over Eurodam, Rotterdam, Prinsendam and a couple of others whose names escape me – they are lovely ships and I am sure the product is excellent.

 

There are 10 of us, 5 couples, and we fell in love with a Greek Isles itinerary on Westerdam in September 2017, all intending to travel in fairly high class accommodation – the total expenditure on the cruise fares would have been around £30,000 for the 5 cabins /10 passengers.

 

I had at the back of my mind though that Holland America were one of the few lines where smoking is still allowed on balconies – a quick brochure check confirmed this and an email response from Customer Services suggested the policy is not going to be reviewed in the near future.

 

We therefore cannot book as we all love spending time on the balcony and that would be impossible for all of us, but particularly 3 of the couples, if anyone was smoking on an adjacent balcony. (we will be in different grades of accommodation so could not block book 5 cabins to minimise the risk!).

 

Clearly anyone who smokes on the balconies on the ship is absolutely entitled to in accordance with Holland America’s rules.

 

My query though is can Holland America afford to lose the £30,000 they have now done which has gone to Royal Caribbean (on one of their smaller ships not the mega ones) for a lovely cruise with a similar itinerary plus 3 days stay in Lake Garda. It will be a different cruise but we will at least be in comfort on our balcony where we do love spending time.

 

I guess the answer is they CAN afford to lose our business and the cabins will all sell – I wonder if they will sell them at the original price that we were prepared to pay though or whether it will be discounted.

 

I doubt smokers would be put off cruising with Holland America if the rules were changed provided there was still a smoking area. For us at present though it is a deal breaker.

 

Please accept I am not trying to be controversial and have no arguments with Holland America passengers who smoke on balconies – my argument is with the Line itself as to why they do not follow the lead taken by nearly every other Cruise company. And why do Carnival allow one of their Lines (two actually as I think Costa have the same policy) when it is out of synch with the rest of their Corporation and those outside it?

Edited August 22, 2016 by PrincessPete

[emilygrace]

Think of it this way.....they are GAINING business from cruisers who do smoke and don't like the more restrictive smoking policies on all the other cruise lines. Believe me, they are not losing any business over this.

[OlsSalt]

Used to live on Lake Garda - Rivotella. Where will you be visiting?

[alwaysfrantic]

I hate their policy as well but for you and your 8 friends who choose to leave, 10 smokers or friends with smokers, or people who don't care will book the cabins at the same fare you were willing to pay.

[blizzardboy]

We have been on dozens of cruises but never on Holland America. I am a bit of a “ship nut” and go on lots of ship visits and have been over Eurodam, Rotterdam, Prinsendam and a couple of others whose names escape me – they are lovely ships and I am sure the product is excellent.

 

There are 10 of us, 5 couples, and we fell in love with a Greek Isles itinerary on Westerdam in September 2017, all intending to travel in fairly high class accommodation – the total expenditure on the cruise fares would have been around £30,000 for the 5 cabins /10 passengers.

 

I had at the back of my mind though that Holland America were one of the few lines where smoking is still allowed on balconies – a quick brochure check confirmed this and an email response from Customer Services suggested the policy is not going to be reviewed in the near future.

 

We therefore cannot book as we all love spending time on the balcony and that would be impossible for all of us, but particularly 3 of the couples, if anyone was smoking on an adjacent balcony. (we will be in different grades of accommodation so could not block book 5 cabins to minimise the risk!).

 

Clearly anyone who smokes on the balconies on the ship is absolutely entitled to in accordance with Holland America’s rules.

 

My query though is can Holland America afford to lose the £30,000 they have now done which has gone to Royal Caribbean (on one of their smaller ships not the mega ones) for a lovely cruise with a similar itinerary plus 3 days stay in Lake Garda. It will be a different cruise but we will at least be in comfort on our balcony where we do love spending time.

 

I guess the answer is they CAN afford to lose our business and the cabins will all sell – I wonder if they will sell them at the original price that we were prepared to pay though or whether it will be discounted.

 

I doubt smokers would be put off cruising with Holland America if the rules were changed provided there was still a smoking area. For us at present though it is a deal breaker.

 

Please accept I am not trying to be controversial and have no arguments with Holland America passengers who smoke on balconies – my argument is with the Line itself as to why they do not follow the lead taken by nearly every other Cruise company. And why do Carnival allow one of their Lines (two actually as I think Costa have the same policy) when it is out of synch with the rest of their Corporation and those outside it?

We've never had a problem with smoke bothering us on our verandas. I've noticed it a bit in the casino, but they have a pretty stout exhaust system and it hasn't been a problem for us.

[blizzardboy]

We therefore cannot book as we all love spending time on the balcony and that would be impossible for all of us, but particularly 3 of the couples, if anyone was smoking on an adjacent balcony. (we will be in different grades of accommodation so could not block book 5 cabins to minimise the risk!).

 

We've never had a problem with smoke bothering us on our verandas. We've noticed it a bit in the casino, but they have a pretty stout exhaust system and it didn't affect us.

[OlsSalt]

We have been bothered far more by cell phone use (shouting messages to mom, kids and fishing buddies back home at every port). On both sides. (Bang, bang on partition walls?) :mad:

 

There is a lot of air movement on balconies while underway so any short-term tobacco smell has never intruded our balcony use either.

Edited August 22, 2016 by OlsSalt

[sammiedawg]

To the OP- there are many cruise lines doing the itinerary you wanted to book. Please look around if you want to do this trip.

Holland America was an excellent mass market line ten to fifteen years ago but cutbacks have taken a toll. It can still be a good value depending on price and itinerary but it hardly the only game in town.

Smoking is a big issue on the ship, especially on port intensive trips. Even when the ship is at sea the wind blows in many different directions and may well blow smoke right into your face. Smoking odors linger and the stink doesn't go away because someone puts out a cigarette Out.

[iancal]

It my seem odd but HAL does not make it's business and policy decisions based upon your specific cruise preferences.

 

This is not difficult. Simply select another cruise line. Why all the fuss and consternation? It is not all about you.

 

We do not like HAl's policy in this regard either. Not a big issue though since there are often other options. But we understand why HAL has this policy and we assume that they believe it yields more revenue for them..notwithstanding your 30K GBP.

[OlsSalt]

Very rough conjecture here: Let's say average passenger pays $3000 a cruise times 2000 passengers = HAL brings in $6 million per cruise.

 

Can they afford to put $30K at risk to meet the demands of one group of passengers and potentially alienate even more?

 

Though I have to admit as more cruise ships ban smoking, this does mean they will concentrate more on HAL ships. That could be a problem ultimately.

[PrincessPete]

Thanks for the replies to date. I can only agree that HAL will indeed gain more business through smokers opting for their less restrictive rules than other lines.

I was amused by IanCal’s response – I quote, “It may seem odd but HAL does not make it's business and policy decisions based upon your specific cruise preferences. This is not difficult. Simply select another cruise line. Why all the fuss and consternation? It is not all about you.”

Thank you IanCal for showing why I do not bother to post here too often as one can always guarantee an acerbic reply such as yours – and indeed one that entirely misses the point, again like yours.

If you had actually read my posting you will see we HAVE already selected another cruise line!

I am devastated that they did not ring me before making “their business and policy decisions based on my preferences”, ha ha. What a pathetic comment, compounded by the “Its not all about you” further on.

I was merely raising an issue for discussion although it appears you agree with me!

Oh dear!

[navybankerteacher]

That 30,000 GBP for five in "fairly high class accommodations" really is not that big a deal. HAL will sell the cabins OP's group will not buy. I agree that I do not like second hand smoke, and I would prefer that HAL banned smoking altogether --- that said, we regularly sail HAL and have never had our balconies made unacceptable by others smoking ---- while I suppose it can happen, I am willing to take the chance because I find everything else on HAL to be sufficiently superior to that offered by their competition.

[fatcat04]

This post belongs on the "all smoking discussions" thread:

http://boards.cruisecritic.com/showthread.php?t=2084364

 

Bingo! Send this thread to the smoking section. ;)