Ebola making a difference in your next cruise?

[sail7seas]

Downplaying the issue is not happening. Bringing people back to reality from full blown hysteria is. And getting it into perspective. It is a serious issue - one person has died in the US. Not sure how many others are affected (2 nurses currently) and some others in isolation just in case. Currently I am more concerned about the enterovirus which is spreading much more rapidly and affecting kids, and those with compromised respiratory system.

 

Which post in this thread or any other on HAL CC would you call full blown hysteria? I must have missed it/them but would be very interested for you to direct us to it/them.

Edited October 18, 2014 by sail7seas

[Lizzie68]

Which post in this thread or any other on HAL CC would you call full blown hysteria? I must have missed it/them but would be very interested for you to direct us to it/them.

 

Your play by plays of news items didn't help, for one.

 

The full blown hysteria is not just referenced from this board but from the way the population and the media are spinning it.

[jbhcw]

There are so many really kind people who post on this forum and posts like these are so appreciated. When someone goes out of their way to be considerate and understanding vs. nasty and biting, it stands out all the more. Nothing is gained by an outright attempt to hurt someone with a sharp mouth that does nothing useful to advance the conversation. What could motivate such ugliness?

 

I have never been an hysterical or high drama person, however, this Ebola outbreak is concerning me. Perhaps because I will be traveling solo for the first time, it worries me should I become ill, I'd be on my own after 47 years to manage .... or not.

 

Ebola just made me (and maybe some others) give deep thought to possibilities and realities of getting care for any illness we may experience while traveling. Even if traveling with a partner, such a serious infectious disease makes for profound reality check. In the past, I made sure we had medical insurance but thankfully neither of us never had a medical emergency away from home. Having medical coverage was just something on my travel check list. I am now thinking in terms of possibly really needing to use it.

 

Discussing this Ebola outbreak with fellow travelers who face the same risks has been useful for many of us. Sharing information and considerations is a good thing. Anyone who thinks it not useful or ridiculous is very free to say so but how about doing so without attack and judgment? Those who brush it off as remote risks to them, GREAT. All the more power to you but please be understanding of those of us who, for whatever reason, feel less secure about it.

 

The kind posts here help a lot as they are said with obvious good will and I thank you sincerely. They do help many of us direct our thinking in certain ways and add a note of confirmation others may be thinking the same way.

 

Good post Sail...and I so agree...I just traveled by myself on an airline I was unfamiliar with to Vancouver...with a bum right shoulder...so no lifting...etc. I was terribly apprehensive about the the whole thing...everything turned out fine..and I cruised with cousin..brother and sil and had a great time.

 

We have nothing planned now until next October...and while I am sad about that I am also wondering what the coming months will bring...reading this thread has been helpful to me...to see so many different opinions...and also to see there are people like me that do have some apprehension about travel during turbulent times...and we are in turbulent times...I traveled about three weeks after 9-11 to the west coast and still remember seeing the National Guard in full gear and assault rifles at our airport...remember going down to Baja which was deserted due to people being afraid to travel...we all make our own decisions...I am older now...more health problems and my perspective has changed about many things....all in all this is a great thread..

[sail7seas]

Your play by plays of news items didn't help, for one.

 

The full blown hysteria is not just referenced from this board but from the way the population and the media are spinning it.

 

Just trying to determine your definition of hysteria and am appreciative you responded that the accurate posting of news reported by at least three sources to be hysteria. That gives me a fuller picture of what you mean and understand I think of hysteria quite differently.

 

I cannot comment about what other hysteria you are seeing or hearing elsewhere. I only know that information which we are both reading here.

Edited October 18, 2014 by sail7seas

[chrispb]

I agree. Although, when she says this is making a mountain out of a molehill and we shouldn't be concerned since ebola has not reached our shores yet, and probably won't, I would have to say that downplaying the issue is just plain wrong. Since this virus has indeed reached frightening levels in other countries, even though they are far away, it's fair to say that there is, in fact, a danger to any country.

 

It's the hysteria that some of us are objecting to. If cancelling/changing cruises a year out isn't hysteria then I don't know what is.

 

I've no idea what the population of US stands at currently - and you have 2 people diagnosed with the disease??? Come on, keep a sense of proportion.

[sail7seas]

Good post Sail...and I so agree...I just traveled by myself on an airline I was unfamiliar with to Vancouver...with a bum right shoulder...so no lifting...etc. I was terribly apprehensive about the the whole thing...everything turned out fine..and I cruised with cousin..brother and sil and had a great time.

 

We have nothing planned now until next October...and while I am sad about that I am also wondering what the coming months will bring...reading this thread has been helpful to me...to see so many different opinions...and also to see there are people like me that do have some apprehension about travel during turbulent times...and we are in turbulent times...I traveled about three weeks after 9-11 to the west coast and still remember seeing the National Guard in full gear and assault rifles at our airport...remember going down to Baja which was deserted due to people being afraid to travel...we all make our own decisions...I am older now...more health problems and my perspective has changed about many things....all in all this is a great thread..

 

 

 

Janet, I am so happy to read this thread has been helpful to a number of us. When you consider how many read here but do not post, we cannot know how many are benefitting (or snearing) at what is written. I cannot see how a civil conversation directly related to travel and specifically cruise travel can be out of place here.

 

We traveled from Boston to FLL weeks after 9-11 to board Zaandam (I think that was the ship) and I vividly recall the National Guard with weapons and our State Police at every corner of the airport. It was a frightening experience. Maybe that is the point....... we did it then, we experienced that fear and concern, we kept traveling and are still traveling. It think that says we are not completely 'hide under the bed' sorts of people. :)

 

Edited October 18, 2014 by sail7seas

[Dr. Cocktail]

I have posted on this thread before but feel so strongly on the subject that I'm going to post again ....

 

Name calling, Democrat versus Republican and vice verso rants and self-indulgent fears accomplish nothing. People seem to be forgetting that hundreds of thousands of Africans who did nothing wrong but have the misfortune to be born in Africa are dying and suffering of a plague of biblical proportions. Imagine if it was one of your family in a distant State or Province.

 

We are sitting in our living rooms (with electricity and running water) pontificating about how our cruises are going to be affected.

 

Even though I'm in Canada, I totally agree that the government both here and the States have been disorganized and useless. Nearly ALL the care provided in Africa has been by one volunteer organization (look it up ... it's true) Doctors Without Borders who get most of their funding from US, ordinary people.

 

For the cost of a couple of ship board cocktails, wouldn't today be a good day to donate a few dollars?

Edited October 18, 2014 by Dr. Cocktail

[sail7seas]

It's the hysteria that some of us are objecting to. If cancelling/changing cruises a year out isn't hysteria then I don't know what is.

 

I've no idea what the population of US stands at currently - and you have 2 people diagnosed with the disease??? Come on, keep a sense of proportion.

 

I have no intent to be argumentative by asking if you call it hysteria for those of us facing final payment within weeks to be discussing whether we will make that payment? We are NOT talking about something a year away.

 

Edited October 18, 2014 by sail7seas

[CowPrincess]

Your play by plays of news items didn't help, for one.

 

The full blown hysteria is not just referenced from this board but from the way the population and the media are spinning it.

 

 

I agree with you Lizzie. There is SO MUCH coverage of the Ebola issue in the media that people are not using their common sense. If someone is relying on the info on the HAL CC board for updates, enough of the sensationalism is leaking in to this thread that many will have their perceptions skewed to "the sky is falling".

 

I am very glad that I'm not packing for a cruise, and that Monday is not final payment date for my cruise.

 

Sail, why don't you just get "cancel for any reason" insurance? Then you are covered if a clear, careful evaluation of the personal risk at the time of your cruise has you choosing to not cruise, right? Insurance will probably give you more peace of mind than anything you will read in this or other, similar threads.

Edited October 18, 2014 by CowPrincess

[chrispb]

A little bit of good news - the WHO declared the Ebola outbreak was over in Senegal, which recorded its first and only case of Ebola at the end of August and has effectively contained the virus since then.

 

If Senegal can do it then so can other countries.

[SoCal Cruiser78]

In following this thread, it strikes me that what one person considers concern is what another person considers hysteria. We all have different risk tolerances for various reasons. It sounds as though the thread has been helpful for some, and not helpful for others. All the latter have to do is "unsubscribe".

Edited October 18, 2014 by Ryndam2002
spelling

[chrispb]

I have no intent to be argumentative by asking if you call it hysteria for those of us facing final payment within weeks to be discussing whether we will make that payment? We are NOT talking about something a year away.

 

 

Where did I mention those facing final payment? Please stop twisting words.

[mamaofami]

I am amazed and disappointed in the way this thread has been going.

 

We each have our own concerns, fears, reactions, and we are each entitled to feel however we wish. That also means being accepting of how the other person feels.

 

No one can make someone else hysterical unless you choose to become so.

[pv girl]

I am amazed and disappointed in the way this thread has been going.

 

We each have our own concerns, fears, reactions, and we are each entitled to feel however we wish. That also means being accepting of how the other person feels.

 

No one can make someone else hysterical unless you choose to become so.

 

Well said. It has taken a mean turn from an initial post about travel plans.

[WpgCruise]

I think some actual "News" on the thread subject might be appreciated, or if not appreciated at least in order.

 

It isn't drama, it isn't hyperbole, it isn't a 30 second political sound bite, just the result of some pretty capable people working to solve the problem.

 

http://www.winnipegfreepress.com/arts-and-life/life/health/canadian-made-ebola-vaccine-to-start-clinical-trials-in-healthy-humans-279010931.html

 

http://www.winnipegfreepress.com/canada/canada-to-start-shipping-experimental-ebola-vaccine-on-monday-government-says-279663382.html?cx_navSource=d-tiles-2

Edited October 18, 2014 by WpgCruise

[Seago2]

There are so many really kind people who post on this forum and posts like these are so appreciated. When someone goes out of their way to be considerate and understanding vs. nasty and biting, it stands out all the more. Nothing is gained by an outright attempt to hurt someone with a sharp mouth that does nothing useful to advance the conversation. What could motivate such ugliness?

 

I have never been an hysterical or high drama person, however, this Ebola outbreak is concerning me. Perhaps because I will be traveling solo for the first time, it worries me should I become ill, I'd be on my own after 47 years to manage .... or not.

 

Ebola just made me (and maybe some others) give deep thought to possibilities and realities of getting care for any illness we may experience while traveling. Even if traveling with a partner, such a serious infectious disease makes for profound reality check. In the past, I made sure we had medical insurance but thankfully neither of us never had a medical emergency away from home. Having medical coverage was just something on my travel check list. I am now thinking in terms of possibly really needing to use it.

 

Discussing this Ebola outbreak with fellow travelers who face the same risks has been useful for many of us. Sharing information and considerations is a good thing. Anyone who thinks it not useful or ridiculous is very free to say so but how about doing so without attack and judgment? Those who brush it off as remote risks to them, GREAT. All the more power to you but please be understanding of those of us who, for whatever reason, feel less secure about it.

 

The kind posts here help a lot as they are said with obvious good will and I thank you sincerely. They do help many of us direct our thinking in certain ways and add a note of confirmation others may be thinking the same way.

 

Agree wholeheartedly. Considering that the first thing I see on the news this morning is the Carnival Magic- and the coast guard went out and took a blood sample yesterday, and they missed a port- we all know the story- how can anyone on this thread say anyone is overreacting? There's your travel interruption right there- just turn on the news.

 

Two male strippers and a missionary have self quarantined while two health care workers got on two planes and a cruise ship. To anyone on this thread thinking people are overreacting: does that sound like someone is in charge of this?

 

It's not a matter of looking around right now and gauging the "risks" of travel. It's projecting out in time and assessing what the possibilities are.

 

To people who are condemning anyone for hysteria: respectfully, those who are considering the potential impact of this on cruising and our personal plans are finding it helpful to have a discussion. Sail is the LEAST likely to overreact in any time of crisis. I've watched her posts during 9/11 and the Boston bombing as well as the myriad other things that pop up as issues on this board.

 

I'm not trying to inflame anyone or project hysteria. I am preparing myself for the possibility that Ebola could come again into this country via "travel" and for what that would mean for me personally and for society in general.

 

Oh look, there's the Magic again.

[Sam.Seattle]

FROM:

 

http://www.cnn.com/2014/10/19/health/us-ebola/

 

There is good news

There are hopeful signs that some of the Ebola contagion scare in the United States could be winding down. Of the four patients currently being treated, at least two appear to be making a recovery.

And the monitoring of 48 people who came into contact with Duncan should draw to a close soon.

Duncan was admitted to Texas Health Presbyterian on September 28, when he went there the second time. That was the last day the monitored people could have had contact with him.

The maximum incubation period for Ebola is 21 days. That period runs out on Monday.

Contrast that with West Africa, where the disease continues to spread exponentially, as the international response remains anemic.

With predictions that Ebola could infect an additional 5,000 to 10,000 people there per week by December, and given the mobility of world travel, the whirlwind of angst surrounding Duncan's case might not be the last.

Edited October 19, 2014 by Sam.Seattle

[Sow There]

I found this post on the Celebrity board and it states beautifully how I feel about this whole situation. The unidentified nurse is entitled to hero treatment, not vilification.

 

Here's a link to the post: http://boards.cruisecritic.com/showthread.php?p=44475336#post44475336

 

I'm not hysterical about Ebola at all. This woman is selfish and stupid. She was directed to self-check herself for THREE weeks and decided at TWO weeks to board a cruise ship where practically NOTHING can be done medically speaking IF the need arose. That's the point. I'm not cancelling any travel plans or freaking out over ebola. But I don't understand people actually defending this womans stupidity.

I am disturbed by comments like this.

 

These nurses risked their lives, as all health care workers do every day, using the best evidence based practices available to them at the point in time.

 

The nurse with the temp of 99.5 called the contact she was given at the CDC and told she could travel. She did NOT disobey directions to take her temperature twice a day, and did notify the contact she was given of a low elevation (not fever). She did exactly as she was told by the people who we as a nation trust to protect us.

 

The lab tech was also told that she should take her temp twice a day and report elevations, which she never had, but did inform Carnival personnel when she heard about the nurse who had travelled. She and her husband also self isolated.

She also was tested before the ship docked and results should be available today, which is also the last day of the incubation period - if she was infected she would have symptoms by now. If the world's medical personnel are correct, without symptoms she was never a danger to others. She did everything in her power to protect others.

 

Instead of uninformed statements vilifying these people we should be treating them like the firefighters on 9/11. They willingly put themselves in positions of danger to try to save lives. They used the information available at THAT point in time to try to save lives.

The fact that in retrospect the information they had was inadequate does not make them culpable for the after effects.

Edited October 19, 2014 by Sow There

[Folk Singer]

It's the hysteria that some of us are objecting to. If cancelling/changing cruises a year out isn't hysteria then I don't know what is.

 

I've no idea what the population of US stands at currently - and you have 2 people diagnosed with the disease??? Come on, keep a sense of proportion.

 

 

Good point. But as it has also been pointed out that we have to be a little more cautious, and really thank our front line health care workers as well.

Edited October 19, 2014 by Folk Singer

[sail7seas]

I found this post on the Celebrity board and it states beautifully how I feel about this whole situation. The unidentified nurse is entitled to hero treatment, not vilification.

 

Here's a link to the post: http://boards.cruisecritic.com/showthread.php?p=44475336#post44475336

 

 

 

Here, here,,,,,

 

It sure sounds to me that Lab Supervisor meticulously followed the instructions she was given by those who are supposed to be the best informed. I applaud her and her DH (I've heard travel companion used and DH so am not sure which) for being so responsible and doing everything they could to assure safety for all. They deserve our praises and a free cruise :), at the least!

 

Edited October 19, 2014 by sail7seas

[footer6]

In following this thread, it strikes me that what one person considers concern is what another person considers hysteria. We all have different risk tolerances for various reasons. It sounds as though the thread has been helpful for some, and not helpful for others. All the latter have to do is "unsubscribe".

 

I agree with this sentiment. Given the constant media reports, normal concern can become hysteria. Each individual has his or her own comfort level. In reality, the odds of coming into contact with an Ebola infected person outside of West Africa are extraordinarily low. As far as cancelling a vacation, unless you are quarantining yourself in your home, the hypothetical Ebola carrier is as likely to be near where you live as where you are planning to travel. As for me, I'm leaving on the Westerdam on Saturday. No worries.

[Sam.Seattle]

Certainly not trying to say anyone has all the answers, but on the other hand, there is a lot of paranoia and plenty of things are known about the virus. Reading information directly from the WHO and CDC and medical journals is likely to get one closer to actual correct information than television or newspaper reports quoting people who are quite often overnight "experts".

 

Ebola is not infectious until people begin to show symptoms such as fever. So if someone has no fever, the chance that he/she is infectious is very, very, very small. Hence the reason for testing for fever. Is it foolproof? Of course not. And if you are on a 15-hour flight, the person next to you could go from being afebrile to having a fever. There are no 100% guarantees in life (other than death and taxes, I guess....:cool:)

 

Also, while there is always a chance of someone coughing or sneezing on you, coughing and sneezing are not part of the symptoms of Ebola.

 

As you said in an earlier post, everyone has a different perception of risk. Some people find a new disease to be very scary, even if the absolute risk of infection is tiny. Others, like myself, look more comparatively at the risks. If the risk is comparatively small, I am not going to worry about it.

Are you still committed to that position? And, not going to worry?

 

And... it does appear that you can contract Ebloa from someone not showing any symptoms.

 

Also... respectfully.... do you have a medical degree?

 

Lastly.... Ebola was first diagnosed in 1976 - Not really new.

Edited October 19, 2014 by Sam.Seattle

[Lizzie68]

I haven't watched CNN in a few days..... how many confirmed cases now? How many suspected?

 

I did see a news report online where parents at a Maine school pulled their kids out because the Principal had been to Kenya during the summer break.

Edited October 19, 2014 by Lizzie68

[AACJ]

I was just double checking our documents on our booking, which is in 3 weeks BTW, and saw a notice on the HAL website. In bright red lettering it says "Important information about Ebola." I clicked on the link and it took me to this:

 

"At Holland America Line the safety and health of our guests and crew is our top priority. We understand that media coverage of the Ebola virus and related cases may raise questions among those with upcoming travel plans.

 

 

Holland America Line does not have any ships calling in any countries with Level 3 Centers for Disease Control (CDC) Travel Health Notices and none of our crew members are from these areas. We are screening for any passengers or crew who have visited or traveled through Liberia, Sierra Leone and Guinea within 21 days of a cruise departure date and they will be denied boarding. We are also monitoring bookings for any guests coming from these countries.

 

 

Currently all embarking guests and ship visitors must complete a mandatory general health screening questionnaire upon embarkation and, if deemed necessary, will be asked to submit to further medical screening prior to being allowed to board. Additionally we will deny boarding to any guest who has had physical contact with or helped care for a person suspected of having Ebola or diagnosed as having Ebola within a minimum of 21 days before embarkation until further notice. We have robust medical protocols that are consistent with public health recommendations. Our medical staff is fully engaged and monitoring the situation.

 

 

Holland America Line is monitoring the situation closely, along with our colleagues in the rest of the travel industry. The cruise industry is in close, frequent contact with the U.S. Centers for Disease Control and Prevention (CDC) and the World Health Organization (WHO) for updates and guidance.

 

 

Guests seeking more information on Ebola can visit the World Health Organization’s website at http://www.who.int; or the CDC site at http://www.cdc.gov."

 

I am happy to see they are actively screening for those from the stricken countries. I also hope those that work with infected individuals in the US will be honest when they answer the questionnaire.

[RuthC]

I did see a news report online where parents at a Maine school pulled their kids out because the Principal had been to Kenya during the summer break.

Kenya? Summer break?

Sounds like a good example of the "hysteria" you referred to earlier.