NCL: A Contrarian View

[Dr. Cocktail]

I have been reading ( and reading …. )(and reading ….) all of the negative rants/reviews/posts/threads/threats about the changes occurring at NCL over the past few months.

 

As some background, my partner and I are just slightly on the wrong side of 50 and have been lucky and fortunate enough in life to travel around a lot of the world on many different ships and many different lines over the past 20+ years. We have sailed on everything from inside cabins on Chandris Fantasy (look it up) up to and including Oceania, Celebrity Xpedition, Travel Dynamics, Ponant, Azamara and The Haven.

 

We used to be complete Celebrity addicts until about two years ago when after three cruises in a row that drove us slightly crazy, we decided that we would become “free agents”. This is, we wouldn’t be slaves to loyalty programs with their free drinks and internet and see what else was out there.

 

We returned to NCL last year and were hooked. However, in the past two years we have also sailed on HAL, RCI, Celebrity, Oceania and Azamara.

 

People … you have NO clue how good you have it on NCL and the spectacular value that is provided. To all those who say they are cancelling their reservations and going somewhere else, I say: “Off you go”!

 

Go on Royal Caribbean and go to the buffet where fried starchy food goes to die, where the varieties of fresh fruit can be counted on four fingers, where smoked salmon doesn’t swim, where roast “turkey” is a strange compressed protinaceous turkoid blob and have the privilege of paying a premium over NCL.

 

Go on Celebrity (where I’ve sailed about 250 nights) and return to the ship at 3:30 and try to get a decent snack without standing in a buffet line serviced by, oh, one server manning the pasta station and one person doing … well, I’m not sure what she was doing. Enjoy the evening “entertainment” and after you’ve woken up, go back to your cabin for a proper sleep.

 

Look at what you’re paying for what you’re getting. I paid $700 for an inside cabin on Celebrity’s Zenith in 1992 and couldn't understand how they could make ANY money providing what they did. That’s about $1400 in 2015 dollars for an inside cabin. Celebrity actually didn’t make any money and that’s why they were ultimately acquired by RCI. Could you imagine paying $1400 for an inside cabin today?! I’d be laughed and ridiculed off of these boards.

 

NCL is cutting back wherever they can … and so is everyone else. Trust me. I’ve been on everyone else and many of them recently. The same economic realities are faced by all of the cruise lines - it’s a fine line between keeping everyone happy while providing shareholder value.

 

Perhaps NCL made a fatal error in actually telling people that they were cutting back as opposed to Royal Caribbean/Celebrity where the on board product was noticeably worse each time you sailed on them without them actually announcing the cutbacks. (As an FYI, Celebrity cut back their entertainment staff to one or two people - trivia, hosts, ambassadors - all gone for the most part - again, look it up)(oh, and by the way, most of their specialty restaurants are now $50(!!!) per person cover charge.

 

Those brand spanking new ships cost a LOT of money and have to be paid for. While it’s fantastic they we’ve all been spoiled and have frankly received more than our dollar’s worth in the past, those days are over. My room at the Hilton before my last Breakaway cruise cost $330 a night with nothing included, or $2300 for the week before meals. What did you spend for the last dinner you went out for at home and how does that compare to per diem that you are paying for a night on a ship that included your room, meals and entertainment?

 

People have to be realistic … it truly is a privilege to have the means, ability and health to go on a cruise but ultimately, it’s still a business that has to make money.

[LMaxwell]

That's a lot of effort expended to convince absolutely no one but the zealots.

 

NCL took my money and then weekly, and now DAILY, are increasing charges. That's the long and short of it.

[vanchelle]

Appreciate this post! Thanks

[fstuff1]

I think ncl's biggest problem right now is communication, or lack there of.

 

how about an explanation for all these CONSTANT increases in the past 5 months?

Edited July 18, 2015 by fstuff1

[DCT61]

<LIKE> no.....<LOVE>

Edited July 18, 2015 by DCT61

[jeffregpuck]

I have been reading ( and reading …. )(and reading ….) all of the negative rants/reviews/posts/threads/threats about the changes occurring at NCL over the past few months.

 

As some background, my partner and I are just slightly on the wrong side of 50 and have been lucky and fortunate enough in life to travel around a lot of the world on many different ships and many different lines over the past 20+ years. We have sailed on everything from inside cabins on Chandris Fantasy (look it up) up to and including Oceania, Celebrity Xpedition, Travel Dynamics, Ponant, Azamara and The Haven.

 

We used to be complete Celebrity addicts until about two years ago when after three cruises in a row that drove us slightly crazy, we decided that we would become “free agents”. This is, we wouldn’t be slaves to loyalty programs with their free drinks and internet and see what else was out there.

 

We returned to NCL last year and were hooked. However, in the past two years we have also sailed on HAL, RCI, Celebrity, Oceania and Azamara.

 

People … you have NO clue how good you have it on NCL and the spectacular value that is provided. To all those who say they are cancelling their reservations and going somewhere else, I say: “Off you go”!

 

Go on Royal Caribbean and go to the buffet where fried starchy food goes to die, where the varieties of fresh fruit can be counted on four fingers, where smoked salmon doesn’t swim, where roast “turkey” is a strange compressed protinaceous turkoid blob and have the privilege of paying a premium over NCL.

 

Go on Celebrity (where I’ve sailed about 250 nights) and return to the ship at 3:30 and try to get a decent snack without standing in a buffet line serviced by, oh, one server manning the pasta station and one person doing … well, I’m not sure what she was doing. Enjoy the evening “entertainment” and after you’ve woken up, go back to your cabin for a proper sleep.

 

Look at what you’re paying for what you’re getting. I paid $700 for an inside cabin on Celebrity’s Zenith in 1992 and couldn't understand how they could make ANY money providing what they did. That’s about $1400 in 2015 dollars for an inside cabin. Celebrity actually didn’t make any money and that’s why they were ultimately acquired by RCI. Could you imagine paying $1400 for an inside cabin today?! I’d be laughed and ridiculed off of these boards.

 

NCL is cutting back wherever they can … and so is everyone else. Trust me. I’ve been on everyone else and many of them recently. The same economic realities are faced by all of the cruise lines - it’s a fine line between keeping everyone happy while providing shareholder value.

 

Perhaps NCL made a fatal error in actually telling people that they were cutting back as opposed to Royal Caribbean/Celebrity where the on board product was noticeably worse each time you sailed on them without them actually announcing the cutbacks. (As an FYI, Celebrity cut back their entertainment staff to one or two people - trivia, hosts, ambassadors - all gone for the most part - again, look it up)(oh, and by the way, most of their specialty restaurants are now $50(!!!) per person cover charge.

 

Those brand spanking new ships cost a LOT of money and have to be paid for. While it’s fantastic they we’ve all been spoiled and have frankly received more than our dollar’s worth in the past, those days are over. My room at the Hilton before my last Breakaway cruise cost $330 a night with nothing included, or $2300 for the week before meals. What did you spend for the last dinner you went out for at home and how does that compare to per diem that you are paying for a night on a ship that included your room, meals and entertainment?

 

People have to be realistic … it truly is a privilege to have the means, ability and health to go on a cruise but ultimately, it’s still a business that has to make money.

 

I don't have quite the cruising experience you do....but I've done quite a few (NCL, Carnival, Holland America, The Big Red Boat --yes I said it!! Ha Ha)

 

I wholeheartedly agree with the majority of your post. While it does make me a little nervous about so many changes in a quick amount of time.....I'm not fussed just yet. The "changes" might cost me and DH a grand total of $200-300 in the grand scheme of things, so it is worth that to have a floating hotel, smiling crew, and a new view every morning.

[TheDougOut]

Nice perspective... thanks for sharing.

[CPT Trips]

The issue/problem is that I sign up and pay, then NCL unilaterally changes the pricing.

[Dr. Cocktail]

Thanks for everyone's responses (both pro and con) and a special "hey" to jeffregpuck .... LOVED the Big Red Boat! (one of their ships is in my signature) ... crazy value! (and did you know that they were owned by Dial Soap?!)

 

To the contrarians about my post, I say that you have missed the nuance of my original post. That is, EVERY cruise line is changing constantly - it's just that it may not be as obvious as NCL's changes. Celebrity now becoming partially inclusive, Royal Caribbean announcing and unannouncing Dynamic Dining, HAL removing deck space for The Retreat and so on. These are all changes that one way or another may change the amount that you spend on a daily basis for a cruise.

 

There are basically no more small live combo's on Celebrity nor are there piano players. Was it announced? No. Did you possibly book that Celebrity cruise expecting live pool music and a piano player? Maybe. Does it save the line money and alter your cruise experience? Yes. It's just that some changes/charges are more obvious than others.

 

Off to bed ... see what people say tomorrow!

Edited July 18, 2015 by Dr. Cocktail

[DMH15]

NCL is still a good value for me. Platinum and cruise in suites. I have always tipped well so a measly increase or two don't upset me.

[cruzsnooze]

IMHO Royal Caribbean and Celebrity have much better food and buffets. NCL and the other mass market lines are very similar, more alike then different. NCL is greedy and deceptive with their new fees because if you believe they are going to the staff you're nieve.

NCL is nothing special, just a mass market cruise line. If the price, time frame and cost work then I'l book a suite. I always check other cruises too. You cannot compare NCL to all inclusive like Azamara or Xpedition which are very different ( I've sailed on both).

[Demonyte]

OPs posts show how different people's expectations can be - Celebrity is currently my preferred cruise line and the "negatives" OP listed are things I just don't care about.

 

Yes, specialities cost more than they did on NCL before but the MDR food is a lot better than NCL's, so we're very happy with it. Celebrity's buffet also a lot better. Sure, maybe not that much live music, doesn't bother us at all. No trivia? Never attended, don't care. We go to see "entertainment" very rarely anyway, we like to socialize with our friends more.

 

And for me personally the greatest difference between NCL and X: nicer adults only venues and less kids overall or the ones that there are, are generally behaving better than the ones seen on NCL. (Not saying that there aren't exceptions everywhere but that was my overall impression.) At 36 I'm not feeling the elderly vibe just yet but rowdy kids are not my cup of tea either. :)

 

And to end this, of course all lines make changes - as stated earlier in this thread the changes are still quite small in grand scheme of things.

 

For me it's about how things are communicated to the customers and how the company still shows that it wants to keep my business and that they are still worth having it. With that area NCL has failed miserably.

[BritChickBN1]

IMHO Royal Caribbean and Celebrity have much better food and buffets. NCL and the other mass market lines are very similar, more alike then different. NCL is greedy and deceptive with their new fees because if you believe they are going to the staff you're nieve.

 

NCL is nothing special, just a mass market cruise line. If the price, time frame and cost work then I'l book a suite. I always check other cruises too. You cannot compare NCL to all inclusive like Azamara or Xpedition which are very different ( I've sailed on both).

 

 

And you think RCI and Celebrity are NOT mass market?!

 

And it's naive,btw. [emoji5]️

[BritChickBN1]

Agree with DMH15. Changes are really no big deal in the grand scheme and they are communicated. Although to be fair very poorly.

[Demonyte]

Agree with DMH15. Changes are really no big deal in the grand scheme and they are communicated. Although to be fair very poorly.

 

 

Not all recent changes were even communicated, we here learned about the changes as someone posted directly from a ship and reported things they learned onboard.

[TOMTOMRN331]

I have been reading ( and reading …. )(and reading ….) all of the negative rants/reviews/posts/threads/threats about the changes occurring at NCL over the past few months.

 

As some background, my partner and I are just slightly on the wrong side of 50 and have been lucky and fortunate enough in life to travel around a lot of the world on many different ships and many different lines over the past 20+ years. We have sailed on everything from inside cabins on Chandris Fantasy (look it up) up to and including Oceania, Celebrity Xpedition, Travel Dynamics, Ponant, Azamara and The Haven.

 

We used to be complete Celebrity addicts until about two years ago when after three cruises in a row that drove us slightly crazy, we decided that we would become “free agents”. This is, we wouldn’t be slaves to loyalty programs with their free drinks and internet and see what else was out there.

 

We returned to NCL last year and were hooked. However, in the past two years we have also sailed on HAL, RCI, Celebrity, Oceania and Azamara.

 

People … you have NO clue how good you have it on NCL and the spectacular value that is provided. To all those who say they are cancelling their reservations and going somewhere else, I say: “Off you go”!

 

Go on Royal Caribbean and go to the buffet where fried starchy food goes to die, where the varieties of fresh fruit can be counted on four fingers, where smoked salmon doesn’t swim, where roast “turkey” is a strange compressed protinaceous turkoid blob and have the privilege of paying a premium over NCL.

 

Go on Celebrity (where I’ve sailed about 250 nights) and return to the ship at 3:30 and try to get a decent snack without standing in a buffet line serviced by, oh, one server manning the pasta station and one person doing … well, I’m not sure what she was doing. Enjoy the evening “entertainment” and after you’ve woken up, go back to your cabin for a proper sleep.

 

Look at what you’re paying for what you’re getting. I paid $700 for an inside cabin on Celebrity’s Zenith in 1992 and couldn't understand how they could make ANY money providing what they did. That’s about $1400 in 2015 dollars for an inside cabin. Celebrity actually didn’t make any money and that’s why they were ultimately acquired by RCI. Could you imagine paying $1400 for an inside cabin today?! I’d be laughed and ridiculed off of these boards.

 

NCL is cutting back wherever they can … and so is everyone else. Trust me. I’ve been on everyone else and many of them recently. The same economic realities are faced by all of the cruise lines - it’s a fine line between keeping everyone happy while providing shareholder value.

 

Perhaps NCL made a fatal error in actually telling people that they were cutting back as opposed to Royal Caribbean/Celebrity where the on board product was noticeably worse each time you sailed on them without them actually announcing the cutbacks. (As an FYI, Celebrity cut back their entertainment staff to one or two people - trivia, hosts, ambassadors - all gone for the most part - again, look it up)(oh, and by the way, most of their specialty restaurants are now $50(!!!) per person cover charge.

 

Those brand spanking new ships cost a LOT of money and have to be paid for. While it’s fantastic they we’ve all been spoiled and have frankly received more than our dollar’s worth in the past, those days are over. My room at the Hilton before my last Breakaway cruise cost $330 a night with nothing included, or $2300 for the week before meals. What did you spend for the last dinner you went out for at home and how does that compare to per diem that you are paying for a night on a ship that included your room, meals and entertainment?

 

People have to be realistic … it truly is a privilege to have the means, ability and health to go on a cruise but ultimately, it’s still a business that has to make money.

 

Thank you for your post and your thoughts. I agree with your stance that for your money, cruising is a good value. While myself and partner have not cruised as much as your, we too have been able to enjoy traveling around the US and international travel.

 

When compared to DIY travel, cruising still offers the best value in terms of lodging and food costs. Remember, you do not have to attend every a la carte area on the ship.

 

I plan to stay with NCL now and in the future. PLUS we are almost Gold.

[SwissLe]

I think you've made an excellent point. There is no perfect cruise line or a one size fits all, that's the beautiful thing about all these different white tubs floating around - you can choose which one to go on.

 

I'm from a cruising family - my father is dedicated to one line and that line can do no right; he remembers when a gin & tonic was 25pence and there was fruit carving on the cheese board in the MDR. Yet despite these moans he still frequents their ships seven to eight cruises per year.

 

I have seen these changes too, I remember as a kid very rarely having a private bathroom and never being able to visit the main dining room to eat with my parents as there was a night nursery and junior tea times. There wasn't a buffet and when it opened it certainly wasn't 24hours. I recall the excitement of finding a hottub on a ship opposed to one dark, deep and small salty pool.

 

I am now also an avid cruiser - I hold top tier status on two lines and 3rd tier on another 3. I enjoy the differences between them - the awe inspiring ships of RCI and the relaxed, great value of NCL. The quality of food on Cunard and the quality of bars on Celebrity. The sheer opulence of Silversea and the traditional values of P&O.

 

There is no loyalty scheme worth putting all your chips in one casino IMO. I'll buy you a box of chocolates and some sparkling wine onshore for $5 if you'll try another line to see if you like it more - that's the Tom guarantee.

[pokerpro5]

That's a lot of effort expended to convince absolutely no one but the zealots.

 

NCL took my money and then weekly, and now DAILY, are increasing charges. That's the long and short of it.

 

^^^ Realest of real talk right here.

 

I still think NCL is the best mid-level line out there, and can be a great value if you understand how they work.

 

But the new management team has a lot to learn regarding nickel and diming, as well as silly, customer-hostile policies which don't bring in much revenue.

 

Rules against bringing food to your cabin? And then they retracted these rules, leaving egg all over their faces? Did they never hear of market research?

 

TWO separate increases to the DSC in 4 months, with a refusal to grandfather existing bookings unless people prepay the DSC?

 

And now this a la carte nonsense.

 

I have no issue with NCL finding new ways to profit, but it seems right now they just randomly change a policy, wait to see how angry everyone gets, and go from there.

 

Where did these people go to school?

[jpcello]

Thanks for this thread. This is my first NCL cruise. I've cruised exclusively on RCL and Celebrity (I may have done a short Carnival cruise years ago but I blocked it from my mind). Reading the NCL board has been very interesting and dealing with NCL is the same. My sister and I have been regular cruisers for the past 6 years. Unfortunately we are always limited in cabin choice because we require a handicapped accessible cabin. Giving up the loyalty program perks has been hard.

 

My expectations right now are pretty low but I hope that changed. We took the UDP for our upcoming cruise to Bermuda. Disappointed that we have to pay a corkage fee for wine we bring onboard (Royal lets you bring 2 bottles per cabin at no charge). Also surprised that some of the entertainment costs extra. I remember reading that new NCL passengers tend to feel "nickel and dimed", which BTW I do :)

 

I'll continue to read the boards and learn more about NCL.

[sparks1093]

OP, it's not about cutbacks. With NCL we used to be made to feel like family and as valued customers. Now we feel like sheep to be shorn and a captive audience from whom $4 or $5 more per day can be milked. I haven't sworn off NCL yet but Del Rio has managed to lose the goodwill NCL had built up with me so if they want to get me onboard it will have to be with the cruise fare itself. As an example we were looking at the possibility of booking a 3 day cruise to replace the 2 day CTN that was canceled. The Sky (which we've been on twice and greatly enjoyed) was priced $250 more than either RCI or CCL. Yes, I know that right not the Sky is offering inclusive drinks, but I doubt that DW and I could drink $250 in 3 days and even if we could I'd rather wait until I was onboard to pay that rather than 75 days before the cruise.

 

As I've said before I have no interest in sailing on Oceania lite.

[legion3]

My favorite NCL view (s):

 

 

 

 

 

Nothing contrarian, some lack of focus and sharpness though. :cool:

[lanceholt]

I couldn't agree more with the OP. Cruising remains the best value out there and NCL, especially in Europe, remains the very best. We have been traveling to Europe yearly, taking an NCL cruise and tacking on days on land before or after. We started cruising because of the exchange rate, the high prices in Europe, and the ease of unpacking once (or twice depending on how long our post cruise stay is). Nothing ever stays the same price, look at hotels, stores, rental cars, airline tickets (even though oil is at an all time low). We don't get personally affronted, we just decide if we still want that product or not.

 

We have never had a bad cruise. We only cruise NCL as our days of "dressing up" are done, and we value flexibility and choice over everything. These days we mostly cruise in suites and are Platinum. We always pay the full service charge, and tip well on top of that. We take very few ship excursions, we eat at the extra charge restaurants only as part of our Platinum freebies or a special deal. We don't drink or gamble. BTW, we can afford to do these things, we choose not to as the value is not there in those areas.

 

Hard to understand the rage here on these boards. If you don't like it, don't book it. If you don't like an increase, then cancel before final payment. This is a business transaction. NCL is not family, friends, nor a charity. It is a corporation with stockholders and offers a product. We happen to like that product but YMMV. Life is too short to spend it in a rage on an internet forum.

[Cruise4Real]

Hard to understand the rage here on these boards. If you don't like it, don't book it. If you don't like an increase, then cancel before final payment. This is a business transaction. NCL is not family, friends, nor a charity. It is a corporation with stockholders and offers a product. We happen to like that product but YMMV. Life is too short to spend it in a rage on an internet forum.

 

I'm glad for you that life has treated you so well. But for the vast bulk of Americans, not so much. We've surely all heard that 99 percent of the wealth creation since the 2008 crash has gone to the top 1 percent, etc. Point being that most people, including most cruisers, simply DO have to watch the pennies.

 

So think about those people, those poor slobs and their kids, who boarded BA or GA back in March, only to find that one of the complimentary dining choices had been taken away, without an iota of notice. That was during a prime school vacation period so there were a lot of kids. Anybody who's cruised with tweens or teens KNOWS how big a "selling point" free room service is to that "demographic." I wasn't on board during that period but I can use my imagination to know the kind of friction that put on families: "But Dad you PROMISED me I could have room service whenever I wanted!" etc.

 

That wasn't a "mistake." That was deliberately planned. For me there is no better signal of the thinking of NCL's top leadership, and their lack of any kind of "virtue."

[rhblake]

In one of FDR's first talks, if I recall correctly, he said he wanted an additionl $5.00 pp/pd. He is working on getting it. Remember he is new and is now trying to prove to the Board of Directors that he can and will increase NCL's revenues. New management, new rules. I don't think we have seen the end of new or increased revenue generating ideas. Maybe, in the future, a mandatory DSC will be required to be paid with our final payments, just like taxes and fees.

[lanceholt]

I'm glad for you that life has treated you so well. But for the vast bulk of Americans, not so much. We've surely all heard that 99 percent of the wealth creation since the 2008 crash has gone to the top 1 percent, etc. Point being that most people, including most cruisers, simply DO have to watch the pennies.

 

So think about those people, those poor slobs and their kids, who boarded BA or GA back in March, only to find that one of the complimentary dining choices had been taken away, without an iota of notice. That was during a prime school vacation period so there were a lot of kids. Anybody who's cruised with tweens or teens KNOWS how big a "selling point" free room service is to that "demographic." I wasn't on board during that period but I can use my imagination to know the kind of friction that put on families: "But Dad you PROMISED me I could have room service whenever I wanted!" etc.

 

That wasn't a "mistake." That was deliberately planned. For me there is no better signal of the thinking of NCL's top leadership, and their lack of any kind of "virtue."

 

We are certainly not of the 1% unfortunately and we have worked for anything and everything we have. We grew up as children of coal miners so use your imagination. Friction on families because their spoiled children can't have room service anytime they want, how about that?! We watch our pennies and continue to do so in retirement, that is why we were able to retire at the age of 66 both of us. If these kids worst experience of doing without is no room service, welcome to the real world, deal with it.