Large Charter caused dining problems

[Karennella]

That is funny! Without wanting to get into a big off-topic discussion of legal drinking ages, it reminded me of when we were in Italy and asked my husband's cousins what the legal age was there. They did not even know because, as you probably are aware, Italy has a very civilised drinking culture and it used to start off by giving children a little wine in their water as a pleasant drink.

Are these charters more prevalent in Alaska? I am starting to research there but I certainly wouldn't want to be with a group like that.

[Shih-tzu]

The cruise lines insist that privacy rules do not allow them to disclose groups.

 

Oh, I knew that.....what I meant was it should be a regulation or something that they have to, or if they choose not to, then they are required to pay compensation to other pax who are greatly inconvenienced. (however I suppose they know that their other bookings might slide).

 

The knitting, quilting groups etc are not a problem....but when an entire sitting of a dining room is off limits, several venues during the day can't be enjoyed by anyone except the exclusive group, and other passengers are treated with disdain as if they have the plague for drinking what's available, then there's a problem.

 

I'm sure that special accommodation for such groups has been pre-arranged by their agencies through the cruise companies, and in those cases then I think it's their (cruise lines) moral obligation to notify fellow shipmates (i.e. their dining times won't be honoured, areas of the ship will not be accessible, etc.)

[Boytjie]

Are these charters more prevalent in Alaska? I am starting to research there but I certainly wouldn't want to be with a group like that.

 

 

I took a quick look at the website and saw Caribbean cruises too. There may be others.

 

 

 

Sent from my iPhone using Forums mobile app

[Daisyloo]

At the very least, they should have been told that they could not control other passengers' legal activities, including disrupting dining. If they don't want to be around alcohol, they should charter an entire ship. JMO.

 

(Sorry, simultaneous post.)

 

Agreed.

[RocketMan275]

Another cruise departed this week with a large contingent of square dancers who supposedly have booked the crows nest for the entire cruise. We will have to wait until next week to learn how that turned out.

 

http://boards.cruisecritic.com/showthread.php?t=2366697&highlight=alaska+charter

[RocketMan275]

Oh, I knew that.....what I meant was it should be a regulation or something that they have to, or if they choose not to, then they are required to pay compensation to other pax who are greatly inconvenienced. (however I suppose they know that their other bookings might slide).

 

 

Personally, I think Privacy is just an excuse HAL, and other cruise lines, use to avoid disclosure. They know people won't book when there is a large group on board so they refuse to release that information using Privacy as an excuse.

[kazu]

Thanks for the link to Inspiration Cruises. I was thinking about the Eurodam to Alaska in September, 2017, but not with this group.

"Unforgettable Christian Cruise to Alaska with Jim Franklin"

 

I think some of these cruises are missing from the awesome charters and groups thread.....

 

That thread that CJCruzer kindly keeps is a voluntary one.

 

She relies on information. If she doesn't get it, she can't add it.

 

If you are aware of additional sailings, then please post on the awesome charters thread so they can be added.

 

I know many will appreciate it :)

[RocketMan275]

Rocketman, I got a chuckle out of your joke about taking a Baptist preacher fishing. Funny, because it's true.

 

When I first moved to Nashville, I was involved in planning the office's Christmas party. Yikes! Didn't realize that holding a party after work hours at a restaurant that served alcohol would create such a furor. Drinking was going to be an individual choice at each person's expense. No dice. Growing up as a Catholic in Pittsburgh, this was culture shock.

 

Roz

 

I can joke about the Baptists. I was born Baptist and raised Baptist. They're good people but many of their rules are absurd. To be truthful, the Baptists don't forbid drinking alcohol. Their doctrine holds that it is dangerous and should be avoided but it is not forbidden.

 

It can be fun asking them questions. If drinking is so bad, why did Jesus change the water into wine? Answer: the wine back in Biblical Times wasn't alcoholic. Question; then why does the Bible warn about getting drunk drinking non-alcoholic wine. That's usually the end of the conversation.

[navybankerteacher]

Since this is an issue with groups rather than full ship charters, I think the size of HAL ships don't really have that much to do with it. They can have a group of 900 people on pretty much any size cruise ship.

 

The size of the ships could be more of a factor with full ship charters than groups because charters have to take on the risk of selling out the whole ship to their customers. I don't think it is that easy for charters to sell out ships the size of Oasis/Allure/Anthem of the Seas; even Atlantis doesn't always sell them out (even though they keep chartering them).

 

The point is: a group of 900 on a ship carrying just 1,800 represents a major block which comes close to having effective control. That same 900 on a ship carrying 3,600 would simply be an annoying minority which could be advised that they should co-operate rather than dictate.

[kevingastreich]

We have just been on our first HAL cruise on the Nieuw Amsterdam on 25th June to Alaska. Whilst we enjoyed the cruise generally and the ship, we and others experienced problems due to the fact that HAL had decided to accept a booking from a christian religious group of over 900 on a cruise of just over 2000 passengers.

This group held a prayer gathering every evening, and also initially objected to sharing a dining room with anyone consuming alcohol (we were told by a staff member they insisted on having a physical barrier between them and others if this was the case). The result was that anyone who had requested late dining was bumped onto early dining, so this group could occupy the whole of the dining room at 8.00pm. We had requested anytime dining (usually up till 9.30) but were told we had to dine by 6.45. In practice even that was impossible, as the tables would not be free for the group at 8.00pm, so we found that other passengers were asked to queue, sometimes up to 20 groups at a time, whilst tables were kept empty for this group so they could be seated at 8.00pm.

We felt very sorry for the staff who had to deal with large numbers of unhappy passengers. We paid to eat in Tamarind on the first night when it became clear we could not access the MDR. We spoke to others who had eaten at the Lido all week (not out of choice).

Later in the week when by pressure of numbers they were forced to eat at the same time as us it made for an uncomfortable atmosphere, as instead of the usual cheery 'good evening', they would cast their eyes down when they saw a glass or bottle of wine on an adjacent table. We were in a lift carrying drinks between evening venues when one woman came in and actually turned her back on us and faced the wall. How rude. They also insisted in taking over the show lounge for a morning meeting which meant when we assembled for tours we had to meet in the nightclub which was crowded with no seating.

The group was booked by a company called Inspiration Christian Travel. I would certainly not travel on any cruise on which such a group was booked again.

The staff were happy to log all complaints, as they told us 'Head Office' had accepted this booking and they needed to know it had caused problems. Whilst we made the best of it, it made for a very difficult week for them. I would be interested to know if anyone has had similar problems, as it has caused us to think again about booking another cruise with HAL, despite the features we enjoyed.

 

I'm surprised a cruise line would even want this kind of business considering how much profit they make from alcohol sales. 50% or more of passengers not buying alcohol must really cut into profits.

[Johnny B]

I guess that "Christian" group wouldn't welcome Jesus unless he promised not to do that silly "water into wine" miracle.

[Boytjie]

I'm surprised a cruise line would even want this kind of business considering how much profit they make from alcohol sales. 50% or more of passengers not buying alcohol must really cut into profits.

 

 

I wonder if these groups pay a premium to offset the loss of revenue?

 

I am sure some full ship charters make up for this! ;)

 

 

Sent from my iPhone using Forums mobile app

Edited July 5, 2016 by Boytjie

[RuthC]

I wonder if these groups pay a premium to offset the loss of revenue?

I wouldn't be a bit surprised. That premium, plus the sure sale of almost half the cabins right off the bat, meaning fewer cabins for a fire sale closer to sailing, would look pretty good to a bean-counter's eye.

[geoherb]

I'm surprised a cruise line would even want this kind of business considering how much profit they make from alcohol sales. 50% or more of passengers not buying alcohol must really cut into profits.

I've looked at the prices of a few group cruises. They're always top dollar. How much the cruise line gets and how much the group gets for its special events are unknown except between the organizers and the cruise line.

 

So far, we've been lucky that the groups cruising with us have not disrupted our normal activities, such as taking over late traditional dining.

[pris993]

Sorry that this happened to you.

That Group was listed on the dry docks, charter thread at this link:

http://boards.cruisecritic.com/showthread.php?t=2354486&highlight=dry+docks

 

Glad to know there is the thread that list charters.

 

A few years back we ran into a medical seminar charter on the Eurodam....most of the week it was quiet nice, i.e., MDR was pretty empty and peaceful, but the last night it was a night mare when the seminar was over, with people standing and talking to each at tables through the MDR... if we had known we would have skipped dinner in the MDR that evening. I would prefer to avoid charters.

[Boytjie]

The point is: a group of 900 on a ship carrying just 1,800 represents a major block which comes close to having effective control. That same 900 on a ship carrying 3,600 would simply be an annoying minority which could be advised that they should co-operate rather than dictate.

 

I can agree with the impact groups can have as percentage of all passengers. But MY point was that groups could be on any size ship so HAL's relatively smaller ships is likely not a big factor for groups selecting ships while it surely is a big factor for full ship charters: it's easier to sell a 2,000 passenger charter than a 5,500 passenger charter.

Edited July 5, 2016 by Boytjie

[janmcn]

Yes, we, too, were on that cruise and I will never again cruise with that group on HAL. I will make sure to always check before. They definitely took over the ship, arrived en masse at breakfast, lunch, dinner, etc...took over the Crows Nest at times, etc....NOT a pleasant time when they were around. (It did make more room in the bars, and dance floor, however!)

 

That kind of group that does not mix well with the overall population on a cruise needs to charter an entire ship.

 

We will never cruise with that group!

[Karen13]

Karen, did you have any issues of the large group taking over any of the other public room? I'm on Saturday's cruise with a large group and wondering if I'll be spending extra time on my balcony.

 

Sent from my LGLS991 using Tapatalk

 

Not really, it was mainly a problem in he MDR in our experience. We did not use the Lido much so can't comment on that, but it always looked busy. As Insaid, for one excursion we had to congregate in the nightclub because they had taken over the show lounge for a morning meeting. The Piano bar was off limits a couple of times during the day but I'm not sure who was using it.

 

The speciality restaurants were not affected and were well worth the extra cost.

 

Thanks to all who have posted messages of support. I do appreciate knowing that we are not alone in being annoyed at this. One thing that was particularly annoying is that even though they made such a fuss about alcohol in the MDR it did not prevent them attending the shows where there were people drinking at the next table, or in the Lido which could not be segregated.

 

Although it is not something I would usually do, I think I may write to complain. As I said, I was more sorry for the staff who were clearly upset they could not give all the passengers the cruise experience they wanted. They all agreed with our comments that this was unacceptable, and suggested several times that we 'take it up with head office'. One remarked to us at the end of the week that they were glad the week was nealy over and they could 'return to normal.

[Karennella]

I can joke about the Baptists. I was born Baptist and raised Baptist. They're good people but many of their rules are absurd. To be truthful, the Baptists don't forbid drinking alcohol. Their doctrine holds that it is dangerous and should be avoided but it is not forbidden.

 

It can be fun asking them questions. If drinking is so bad, why did Jesus change the water into wine? Answer: the wine back in Biblical Times wasn't alcoholic. Question; then why does the Bible warn about getting drunk drinking non-alcoholic wine. That's usually the end of the conversation.

 

No they don't forbid alcohol and many here drink. We were out one New Years Eve and a local Baptist minister, his wife and friends were all happily drinking. But his assistant was Canadian and he didn't drink.

Gosh my kids have friends who are Turkish and Pakistani Muslims and they all drink!

Must be our convict heritage being assimilated by our new settlers!!

[Jade13]

:( IMO a group like that should be required to take over an entire smaller ship (e.g. Veendam or Maasdam), not half of a large ship.

 

 

Agree. The worst possible group. I remember stories a number of years ago of a similar (maybe same) group who went around trying to get passengers to convert.

 

I would be writing a letter to HAL especially regarding facts such as those boarding who believed they had fixed main dining only to be told they have to eat earlier and wait for a table. What if those who need to eat earlier for medical reasons are told they have to eat layer (or go to the lido). And the fact this group expected to have the entire dining room to themselves....

Edited July 5, 2016 by Jade13

[taxmantoo]

Ugh. I've known for awhile that "Mercy Me" Inspirations group will be on the 2nd half of our Koningsdam Caribbean cruise in January.

 

Unfortunately we can't change our plans....Tamarind is a good idea. Hopefully they don't take that over too. :( On a Maasdam cruise we never were able to have lunch in the Pinnacle because groups onboard had it reserved. And they weren't extra-large groups either.

 

We are also on that January 8 cruise for 2 weeks. We had the unfortunate bad luck of being on one of their cruises back in January 2013 on the Eurodam. The Dining Room situation was a mess from embarkation to the end of the cruise. We were insistent enough with the Guest Services Manager that we had been guaranteed 8 pm main seating (Neptune Suite, 4 stars, Dietary Reasons) that she comped us in Pinnacle Grill for the first 3 nights and then magically found a table for us in main seating. She was very nice but was put in a very bad situation caused by a decision made miles way in Seattle. They, after the cruise and responding to our complaints, compensated us with a Navigator Wine Package on our next booking.

 

I've just written to Guest Services and asked them to confirm our reservation for this cruise. I let them know that if they cannot do that in writing, which proof we would bring on the ship, then we will cancel our cruise.

 

I will let everyone on our roll call know how they reply, if and when they do.

[latsyrc]

I live in the Southern US, and we have several large denominations that don't drink alcohol (at least in public :D).

 

Roz

 

Funny! Ocean City, NJ was founded as a camp meeting and didn't allow alcohol (at least they didn't 50 years ago). My mother reveled at the sight of all the liquor/beer bottles floating out from under the houses during storm surges.

[Windsailer]

That thread that CJCruzer kindly keeps is a voluntary one.

 

She relies on information. If she doesn't get it, she can't add it.

 

If you are aware of additional sailings, then please post on the awesome charters thread so they can be added.

 

I know many will appreciate it :)

 

I added the following to that thread - I just did the Alaska cruises - will do more later.

 

NA July 15-22, 2017 Dr. David Jeremiah and Turning Point Ministries

 

Amsterdam July 16-23, 2017 Christian Cruise to Alaska with WAY-FM

 

Amsterdam August 6-13, 2017 Gaither Homecoming

 

Eurodam July 8-15, 2017 Calvary Albuquerque

 

Eurodam August 12-19, 2017 Lifeshape

 

Eurodam September 9-16, 2017 Christian Cruise to Alaska with Jim Franklin

 

Due to the size of the Amsterdam I'd be very concerned about groups on her.

[Roz]

I didn't know that about Ocean City - interesting. I have beer in my refrigerator right now that belongs to one of my neighbors. Her religiously conservative parents pop in every once in awhile, and she doesn't want them to know she indulges in sinful behavior from time to time.

 

Roz

[kazu]

I added the following to that thread - I just did the Alaska cruises - will do more later.

 

NA July 15-22, 2017 Dr. David Jeremiah and Turning Point Ministries

 

Amsterdam July 16-23, 2017 Christian Cruise to Alaska with WAY-FM

 

Amsterdam August 6-13, 2017 Gaither Homecoming

 

Eurodam July 8-15, 2017 Calvary Albuquerque

 

Eurodam August 12-19, 2017 Lifeshape

 

Eurodam September 9-16, 2017 Christian Cruise to Alaska with Jim Franklin

 

Due to the size of the Amsterdam I'd be very concerned about groups on her.

 

Awesome!! Thank you :)

 

That is a huge help to anyone who is checking that thread.

 

I know it is appreciated :)

 

I agree with you on the Amsterdam. I too would be concerned if I were sailing on her with a large group.

Edited July 5, 2016 by kazu