NOROVIRUS on the Allure of the Seas right NOW!

[AmazedByCruising]

Agree effective hand washing is always good. When hand washing, how long is the recommended time and water temperature to effectively kill germs? Do the PAX get irritated when waiting in line to use the hand washing stations?

 

On my last cruise, the water in public bathrooms started running automatically and stopped after maybe 8-10 seconds, despite (tiny) labels on the way out telling you to wash for at least 20 seconds.

 

Maybe it would help to show a "traffic sign", that turns red when the water starts running, and stays red for 20 seconds. That's also enough time to read an explanatory message below the light.

 

If the light would be visible by pax behind you they will know that they are waiting because the "slow" passenger is taking care of everyone's health.

 

They would also know when someone walks away too soon, adding just that bit of social pressure that could limit the number of Noro cases to the number of people that went on board already infected.

[wannalottadough]

Thanks to those of you who conveyed their "get healthy" wishes! They are much appreciated. I apologize to those of you who feel I was "misleading"! Here is an update and answer to the various questions. In our cabin only me not my DH came down with Norovirus. Yes, I was officially diagnosed by the ship doctor with Norovirus. Yes, we had a yellow dot on our door. Our luggage for departure was even separated from everyone else's to avoid contamination. I came down with the symptoms Friday on our Cozumel ship sponsored excursion. I have been very sick (trust me you do NOT want those details). I saw the ship doctor on Friday, Saturday, and today (Sunday). On Friday, I received a shot and several anti-diarrhea and anti-vomiting prescriptions in addition to Tylenol for the fever. Blood work was done and stool samples were taken. Unfortunately, I was much worse yesterday (Saturday) and they took me back down to the "infirmary" for IV's for hydration, potassium, and stronger antiemetic medications via the IV's in addition to another shot and more labs. I was NOT the only person down there being treated for Norovirus. RCCL did a great job of taking care of me and for that I am thankful! I am currently in a wheelchair at the airport awaiting our flight's departure taking the meds given to me by the ship doctor this morning for our trip home.

 

So sorry this happened on your cruise, if you're anything like me you look forward to these vacations and that would be so disappointing. Wishing you a quick recovery.

[caanma]

Correct hand washing, sing 1st verse of Mary Had a Little Lamb to yourself as you lather and rub, then rise. After so much exposure at work I have to be careful which hand sanitizers I use as some will lead to my skin peeling like a snake.

[A&L_Ont]

I am on Allure right now. There was no extra mention of hand washing etc... during muster or hand outs in the cabins. If there were a few cases last week it wasn't to the level that they were concerned about this week.

Edited August 29, 2016 by A&L_Ont

[Jenjer]

My understanding and it is related to sailing Quantum with a noro outbreak. Is that at certain percentages they have different protocols.

 

 

 

Like closing all self serve drink stations and having a staff member get your drink. No water, no soda machine. Everything done by a staff member.

 

No getting your own food on the buffet.

 

Everything removed form every table you have to ask for salt pepper and silverware.

 

No hand sanitizer you must wash your hands or not go in.

 

It was weird but as the week wore on we saw a relaxation of these protocols.

 

They wash every surface all day long with a solution that is sticky when dry.

[EatonDoolittle]

 

It was weird but as the week wore on we saw a relaxation of these protocols.

 

 

You saw a relaxation because new people bring the virus on board. Since the contagious period is a few days, they assume that there is a reduced opportunity to spread after that.

 

For that reason Holland America (always used to..I have not sailed them in a few years) maintains an increased monitor level on the first few days of every cruise - no self service, etc.

 

It seemed to cut down on Noro instances. That was their story, they were sticking to it, and made sense to me.

I've won the Noro lottery twice, both times it was a Celebrity ship.

[chengkp75]

On my last cruise, the water in public bathrooms started running automatically and stopped after maybe 8-10 seconds, despite (tiny) labels on the way out telling you to wash for at least 20 seconds.

 

Maybe it would help to show a "traffic sign", that turns red when the water starts running, and stays red for 20 seconds. That's also enough time to read an explanatory message below the light.

 

If the light would be visible by pax behind you they will know that they are waiting because the "slow" passenger is taking care of everyone's health.

 

They would also know when someone walks away too soon, adding just that bit of social pressure that could limit the number of Noro cases to the number of people that went on board already infected.

 

The 20 seconds recommended for hand washing (and 30 seconds is better), does not require water running for that time. What is required is vigorous friction of the hands to loosen the dead skin cells of the outer layer that have the germs on them. The auto faucets are a water saving feature. You wet your hands, water shuts off. You soap your hands and then start singing "Happy Birthday" while scrubbing your hands. You then pass your hands under the faucet and rinse. Repeat rinse if required.

 

"Traffic lights" at the faucets are not going to change a person's personal hygiene habits, built up over a lifetime.

[Langley Cruisers]

That's also enough time to read an explanatory message below the light...

 

It is my experience, on cruise ships and in every aspect of life (!) that people just do not read signs. They don't. They ask questions when the answer is right in front of them. I work in retail and this is a daily occurrence. :(

 

What is required is vigorous friction of the hands to loosen the dead skin cells of the outer layer that have the germs on them....

 

^ This, exactly. Vigorous friction. Get in to all the nooks and crannies, be rough, use a paper towel to turn off the water (if in rest room with manual faucets), and to open the door.

[AmazedByCruising]

The 20 seconds recommended for hand washing (and 30 seconds is better), does not require water running for that time. What is required is vigorous friction of the hands to loosen the dead skin cells of the outer layer that have the germs on them.

 

Thanks once again! So washing your hands only works when you have accumulated enough dead skin cells? In other words, washing them too often is not a good idea either?

 

"Traffic lights" at the faucets are not going to change a person's personal hygiene habits, built up over a lifetime.

 

This would be a nice test for a psychology student. I think people do change their habits when other people (other passengers, crew) are looking and it's obvious that you're breaking a soft "rule" that may affect other passengers. (Similar to "second hand smoke" or picking your nose)

 

It is my experience, on cruise ships and in every aspect of life (!) that people just do not read signs. They don't. They ask questions when the answer is right in front of them. I work in retail and this is a daily occurrence. :(

 

That depends on boredom I think. I've read every sign above the urinals on Celebrity Silhouette.

 

Edited August 29, 2016 by AmazedByCruising

[chengkp75]

Thanks once again! So washing your hands only works when you have accumulated enough dead skin cells? In other words, washing them too often is not a good idea either?

 

No, the outer layer of skin is basically composed of dead cells. This is naturally where the virus is, on the surface. Soap is not a disinfectant of any kind, it is a lubricant. Its job is to break the surface tension either between the virus and the skin, or the outer layer of skin and the next layer of cells, so that the rinse water can flush the virus away. The friction and the lubricant (soap) breaks the virus free from your skin, and then the rinse water takes it down the drain. Hand washing doesn't kill anything, it just removes it from your hands.

[jules815]

And sometimes with all the hand washing, sanitizer gel precautions, don't touch the railings, push the elevator button with your knuckle, etc. you still get it anyway.

 

I hope the OP is finally feeling better. I can't imagine having to board a plane feeling like that.

[laedw]

Harmony also has them.

 

Glad to know this!:D

[YlangYlangF9PB3E]

Ovation too.

 

So does Empress. I loved using it. I never feel clean using hand sanitizer. And I hate the added scent. I don't like to eat bread right after slopping it on my hands.

[jules815]

 

So does Empress. I loved using it. I never feel clean using hand sanitizer. And I hate the added scent. I don't like to eat bread right after slopping it on my hands.

 

So on the ships with sinks at the entrance to the WJ, if you wash your hands with soap and water, you don't have to use the sanitizer?

[FalklandIslander]

So on the ships with sinks at the entrance to the WJ, if you wash your hands with soap and water, you don't have to use the sanitizer?

 

Correct. Using hand sanitizer immediately after washing with soap and water provides no benefit.

[Kingofcool1947]

Correct. Using hand sanitizer immediately after washing with soap and water provides no benefit.

 

Good point.

 

So, how long and temperature of the water is needed to effectively kill germs when washing your hands? And how often? FWIW, I try to avoid using the public restrooms on cruises as much as I can anyway, cause I seen plenty of PAX who don't wash their hands with soap and water, or just run their hands under the water only for a few seconds, after "doing their thing." :eek: I go back to my cabin to wash my hands. Is that too OCD?

 

Some poster in this thread said you cannot contract N.V. , or contracting other kinds of illness, if you avoid puttimg your fingers in your mouth, anyway. That's good to know. :)

 

So, although hand sanitizer like Purell does nothing for killing N.V.. doesn't it kill 99.99% of common germs on your hand with 15 seconds of application? :confused:

 

And anyways, what other germs and illness, can a PAX possibly contract if careful not to touch anything common like elevator buttons, doornobs , put fingers in and eat the bar snacks, or common serving utensils?

Edited August 30, 2016 by Kingofcool1947

[chengkp75]

Good point.

 

So, how long and temperature of the water is needed to effectively kill germs when washing your hands? And how often? FWIW, I try to avoid using the public restrooms on cruises as much as I can anyway, cause I seen plenty of PAX who don't wash their hands with soap and water, or just run their hands under the water only for a few seconds, after "doing their thing." :eek: I go back to my cabin to wash my hands. Is that too OCD?

 

Some poster in this thread said you cannot contract N.V. , or contracting other kinds of illness, if you avoid puttimg your fingers in your mouth, anyway. That's good to know. :)

 

So, although hand sanitizer like Purell does nothing for killing N.V.. doesn't it kill 99.99% of common germs on your hand with 15 seconds of application? :confused:

 

And anyways, what other germs and illness, can a PAX possibly contract if careful not to touch anything common like elevator buttons, doornobs , put fingers in and eat the bar snacks, or common serving utensils?

 

Hand washing does not kill germs. Never has, never will. Read my post above, all hand washing does is remove germs, not kill them.

 

As for not contracting illnesses if you don't put your fingers in your mouth, while that is certainly one way to limit exposure, it is not a complete cure all. Any thing you eat with your fingers, like sandwiches and fries, are just the same as putting your fingers in your mouth.

 

Hand sanitizer claims are one thing, their true effectiveness is another. Each and every bacteria or virus will have a possibly different ingredient and contact time to kill them, so a claim like the 99.99% within 15 seconds is a blanket claim. You would have to look at the EPA's listing of bacteria and viruses and see what active ingredients have been found to be GRASE (generally regarded as safe and effective) against them, and then see if that ingredient, in the required concentration, is present, and what contact time is required.

 

Discounting bacteria and viruses transmitted by contact and ingestion, you still have the aerosol variety like colds, flu, and legionella. Probably many more that I'm forgetting.

[hapster85]

Recent studies have shown that overuse of antibacterial soaps and sanitizers are contributing to resistant bacteria. Not to mention weakening our immune systems through lack of exposure. No real surprise there, it goes hand in hand with the over-prescribing of antibiotics.

 

Just use common sense, wash your hands before handling food, and stop worrying so much.

[Kingofcool1947]

Hand washing does not kill germs. Never has, never will. Read my post above, all hand washing does is remove germs, not kill them.

 

As for not contracting illnesses if you don't put your fingers in your mouth, while that is certainly one way to limit exposure, it is not a complete cure all. Any thing you eat with your fingers, like sandwiches and fries, are just the same as putting your fingers in your mouth.

 

Hand sanitizer claims are one thing, their true effectiveness is another. Each and every bacteria or virus will have a possibly different ingredient and contact time to kill them, so a claim like the 99.99% within 15 seconds is a blanket claim. You would have to look at the EPA's listing of bacteria and viruses and see what active ingredients have been found to be GRASE (generally regarded as safe and effective) against them, and then see if that ingredient, in the required concentration, is present, and what contact time is required.

 

Discounting bacteria and viruses transmitted by contact and ingestion, you still have the aerosol variety like colds, flu, and legionella. Probably many more that I'm forgetting.

 

Thank you!

 

Very clear explanation and helpful. :)

[lakemurraykid]

Thank you!

 

Very clear explanation and helpful. :)

I really appreciate your detailed explanation. I would it say it sums it up very nicely. If, in fact, there was Noro on the Allure, I hope they kill it before I board it this coming Sunday.

 

One thing you can do to maybe help is to use a towel on the bathroom door handle when you leaving the bathroom. You never know who DID NOT wash their hands before leaving it.

[Dr.Kevin]

We had 1/2 of our group of 10 get sick on the Allure of the Seas on the Nov 6-13 Sailing. We could not get any info from RCL also. Heard 28, 200, to over 1000 were sick on our cruise. RCL offered a "Credit" of $130.00 for the day my Wife was quarantined to the room....lousy offer since she lost enjoying the last three days of the cruise and all of us lost enjoying each others company which was the purpose of the cruise. Anyone have any suggestions?

[Ocean Boy]

We had 1/2 of our group of 10 get sick on the Allure of the Seas on the Nov 6-13 Sailing. We could not get any info from RCL also. Heard 28, 200, to over 1000 were sick on our cruise. RCL offered a "Credit" of $130.00 for the day my Wife was quarantined to the room....lousy offer since she lost enjoying the last three days of the cruise and all of us lost enjoying each others company which was the purpose of the cruise. Anyone have any suggestions?

 

Your wife was quarantined for one day but she lost enjoying the last three days of the cruise? I am also unclear as to why you feel RCI should provide the information you seem to be looking for. How does it play any role in your personal loss?:confused:

 

I don't know Dr. Kevin, I suspect that you know all about how viruses and the rest of the microbial world works. It has a tendency to interfere with people's lives. What would you consider adequate compensation?

[bouhunter]

We had 1/2 of our group of 10 get sick on the Allure of the Seas on the Nov 6-13 Sailing. We could not get any info from RCL also. Heard 28, 200, to over 1000 were sick on our cruise. RCL offered a "Credit" of $130.00 for the day my Wife was quarantined to the room....lousy offer since she lost enjoying the last three days of the cruise and all of us lost enjoying each others company which was the purpose of the cruise. Anyone have any suggestions?

 

Yes - move on and forget it. It's irrelevant how many people were sick. And cruiselines can't (nor should) offer more "compensation" than that when people get a highly contagious virus like noro. Life happens.

[ramja96]

Where can I find this in black for formal night?

[atnolan94]

Where can I find this in black for formal night?

 

Love it!!! lol.