Princesss fined $40 million for pollution

[sfaaa]

Hi All

 

(As part of the plea deal, cruise ships from eight Carnival lines will remain under supervised probation for five years, subject to independent audits and monitoring.)

 

Lets hope they do enforce the rules.

 

yours Shogun

 

Of course they will. Carnival is now on a short leash.

[balf]

 

To me, this incident is the second worst environmental and criminal conspiracy-- only surpassed by Volkswagen's diesel discharge cheating. I personally would be happy if VW was fined in to oblivion, causing the dissolution of the company. I don't wish that same fate on Princess.

 

.

 

Nice attitude given that VW are a European company and CCL American.

 

DAVID.

[Pushka]

I wonder if it will affect Glacier Bay permits?

[chengkp75]

Since the US investigated and imposed the fine (and I assume keeps the $$$ from the fine), can every other country that is a signatory to MARPOL also decide to impose their own fine on Princess?

 

Not for the violations mentioned in the DOJ settlement. Any port state can however, inspect the ship at any time, and if violations are found start their own case.

[chengkp75]

Hi All

 

(As part of the plea deal, cruise ships from eight Carnival lines will remain under supervised probation for five years, subject to independent audits and monitoring.)

 

Lets hope they do enforce the rules.

 

yours Shogun

 

Having worked for two companies that were under DOJ probation for similar violations, I can say that there will be strict compliance. Part of the settlement will hold existing corporate officers criminally responsible for any further violations while under probation, with jail time and personal fines.

[chengkp75]

Not entirely.

 

A more fitting analogy would be: A person, after changing the oil in their vehicle, opting to dipose of it in a stormdrain rather than taking it to a facility where it can be properly processed.

 

The underlying morality of this crime is what is most disturbing. Princess touts themselves as environmentally friendly. They proudly declare it every time we as passengers assemble for the muster drill.

 

This revelation is a blatant betrayal of trust to both patrons and shareholders.

 

"Prefer a loss to a dishonest gain; the one brings pain at the moment, the other for all time."

 

-Chilon

 

I completely agree with you, and have not been trying in any way to downplay the seriousness of this or Princess' culpability in it. In fact, my point, which I must have seriously mangled, was that it especially surprises me that a cruise line would do this today, since as a whole they are far and away better than most cargo ship operators in environmental compliance.

[Musky Ike]

I suspect that the increase in the cost of oil due to the supposed upcoming OPEC agreement on cutbacks is what is responsible for the stock price falling.

 

Higher oil prices = reduced profits for cruise lines

 

Yup, I was not aware of that issue when I posted. But this will not help either.:(

[thinfool]

CCL American.

 

DAVID.

 

Sorta true, headquarters are in the US.

 

CCL is chartered in Panama, RCL is chartered in Liberia, cannot remember about NCL.

[M&PGermany]

I am absolutely disgusted by their procedures. They should be banned from European ports and those responsible (not the guys that executed it but the ones in the executive offices) should go to prison! SHAME ON PRINCESS!!

[antsp]

I am absolutely disgusted by their procedures. They should be banned from European ports and those responsible (not the guys that executed it but the ones in the executive offices) should go to prison! SHAME ON PRINCESS!!

 

Have any VW execs gone to prison

[M&PGermany]

Have any VW execs gone to prison

 

No. That's the point ! They SHOULD !

[greenie082756]

From one of the cited articles on this thread:

 

In the factual statement, Princess also admitted to the following:

 

A perceived motive for the crimes was financial – the chief engineer that ordered the dumping off the coast of England told subordinate engineers that it cost too much to properly offload the waste in port and that the shore-side superintendent who he reported to would not want to pay the expense.

 

The pressure to KEEP COSTS IN LINE starts all the way at the top... above Princess Executives ... all the way to the parent company.

 

And while it is highly unlikely that ANYONE at a corporate level DIRECTLY or in any way indirectly ordered this criminal activity, that doesn't proclaim their innocence. The current CEO has apologize for "lack of oversight"

 

In line-item comparative financial analysis a keen eye would have spotted larger than normal variances for port-side oily waste disposal expenses between "compliant" ships and the "criminal" ships. Senior financial staff should have been asking: "What are these few ships doing to keep their cost so low?" -or- "Why is the cost so high on these ships?" At the very least, raising those questions should have prompted discussion and perhaps an investigation into operations.

 

 

QUOTE]

 

Numbers and $$ do not lie. Someone had to ask why? I say high corporate had to have knowledge.

[batuceper]

Thank you for sharing that link. As a loyal Princess cruiser, I think that this is sickening. The original news stories mentioned the Caribbean Princess, our least favorite ship in the fleet. But the shenanigans apparently extended to other ships as well. I hope they truly make the necessary changes both to the ships and the mindset of the employees who committed these crimes against the environment.

 

The fact that they are now subjected to onboard supervision on 78 out of their 101 vessels tell us something about the extent of this practice.....looks like profits were (are?) paramount.

 

I suspect this practice extends to other cruise lines as well...

 

For the record:

 

Carnival owns Princess, HAL, Cunard, Carnival, Costa, Seabourn, P&O etc.;

Royal owns RCCL, Celebrity, Azamara, Pullmantur etc.

NCL owns Norwegian, Oceania, Regent, Crystal etc.

 

So three corporations own most of the world's ocean cruise lines.

 

Disney appears to be the odd one out.

[Packard]

No. That's the point ! They SHOULD !

 

My understanding is that the head of VW stepped down because of it! Your turn Jan!

[batuceper]

This may be completely alarmist, but I am wondering if there is another shoe to drop....

 

Are cruise lines adhering strictly to health (food and hygiene) practices on board? Any history of cruise lines fined?

[Shogun]

Hi chenkp75

 

Thanks for your detailed postings,

 

 

yours Shogun

[SargassoPirate]

Having conducted hundreds of safety and environmental audits of large and small organizations over the years, I can tell you that a corrupt culture allows such things to happen because the responsible perpetrators are comfortable in not being caught and/or punished. If the culture has made it clear, from the top down, that such misbehaviors will not be tolerated, things like this are less likely to happen.

 

When I would find improper or illegal environmental practices, I could tell a lot about the culture above by the reactions of those immediately responsible as well as those up the management food chain.

 

This whole thing smacks of a culture of deceit at Princess. The question is just how far up it went.

 

In the meantime, what can we as individual cruisers do? Vote with our feet, that's what. I was ready to buy a diesel Volkswagen, but changed my mind when that corrupt corporate culture was disclosed. I had four Princess cruises in my watch list for 2017 and 2018. I just deleted them.

[SargassoPirate]

This may be completely alarmist, but I am wondering if there is another shoe to drop....

 

Are cruise lines adhering strictly to health (food and hygiene) practices on board? Any history of cruise lines fined?

 

I have observed sub-standard food handling practices on Princess more so that Royal Caribbean. I always report them first to the area supervisor and if nothing changes, work my way up to the hotel supervisor.

 

On one cruise several years ago, I observed the Horizon Court staff take a used cloth napkin to wipe down a table and reset it. I saw the coffee cups and juice glasses placed upside down with the rims resting on the table. I saw there were no hand washing facilities at the dirty dish stations and saw the same staff clear dirty dishes and then grab clean utensils to reset the tables. I saw food handlers wearing plastic/rubber gloves touching soiled and then clean surfaces without changing the gloves. In a 17 day cruise I saw no corrective actions, so I reported my observations to corporate.

[A&L_Ont]

In the meantime, what can we as individual cruisers do? Vote with our feet, that's what. I was ready to buy a diesel Volkswagen, but changed my mind when that corrupt corporate culture was disclosed. I had four Princess cruises in my watch list for 2017 and 2018. I just deleted them.

 

I think that this is apt to happen at some point with all major cruise lines. I think the only way to really drive the point home is to stop cruising or find a true environmentally sensitive line that practices and holds true to what they preach. I believe Windstar even uses generators for propulsion.

 

In all honesty it is a luxury that isn't good for the environment. However, the vast majority of us are happy to go knowing the "normal" side effects such as the obvious exhaust pollution. This event though is far from a normal occurrence (hopefully).

 

Edit: I honestly appreciate what you are trying to do and your standards of what is right and wrong. Please don't misinterpret my comments above. :)

Edited December 2, 2016 by A&L_Ont

[cruisemom42]

I am no engineering expert, but as an average consumer I find the news sickening. :(

 

I am a long-time Princess cruiser dating back to Sitmar days. I haven't cruised Princess as much in recent years, but had booked a New Years cruise on Regal to try out the newest ship.

 

It's too late to cancel now, but I wish that we had not booked with Princess. I feel like it will be a long time (if ever) before I will want to "come back" again...

[e2011]

Very disappointed to hear this. The seas are their bread and butter. Makes me wonder too, have other lines tried to do the same thing?

 

Exactly. Its time the USA adds another penalty... if your cruise line is found guilty of pollution discharge into the ocean, your line will be banned forever from doing business in the USA as well as banned from ALL US ports. Also step up funding for the Coast Guard to do more random inspections and surveillance. I would like to see part of the billions that go to drug interdiction be funneled to protecting the sea.

Edited December 2, 2016 by e2011

[chengkp75]

This may be completely alarmist, but I am wondering if there is another shoe to drop....

 

Are cruise lines adhering strictly to health (food and hygiene) practices on board? Any history of cruise lines fined?

 

Whether the ships are adhering to USPH sanitation requirements at all times is a difficult question to answer. The USPH attempts to inspect every foreign flag cruise ship that calls at the US twice each year. Inspections are unannounced, and usually last 6-8 hours, with 2-3 inspectors, and cover nearly every aspect of ship operation, from a sanitation standpoint, not just food safety. One aspect of a USPH inspection is that a meal service is required to be completed during the inspection. This places the staff under the daily stress of meal prep and service, and the inspectors watch to see if the staff maintain the required standards during their normal duties, or whether the inspectors are getting "canned" answers from the staff that they have been trained to say.

 

USPH does not have the authority to fine a cruise ship for violations. Ships scoring less than 85 out of 100 points on their inspections are required to submit corrective action reports with followup reports as corrections are completed. Typically, a failing score will result in a second inspection within a couple of months to see about progress. If problems are egregious enough, or repetitive, USPH can block the ship from boarding passengers until problems are corrected. In extreme cases, USPH can revoke a ship's certificate to board passengers in US ports, either temporarily or permanently.

[Fred the ferret lover]

Somebody needs to be made an example out of! I hope they get it and get it good!

[Griller]

Whether the ships are adhering to USPH sanitation requirements at all times is a difficult question to answer. The USPH attempts to inspect every foreign flag cruise ship that calls at the US twice each year. Inspections are unannounced, and usually last 6-8 hours, with 2-3 inspectors, and cover nearly every aspect of ship operation, from a sanitation standpoint, not just food safety. One aspect of a USPH inspection is that a meal service is required to be completed during the inspection. This places the staff under the daily stress of meal prep and service, and the inspectors watch to see if the staff maintain the required standards during their normal duties, or whether the inspectors are getting "canned" answers from the staff that they have been trained to say.

 

USPH does not have the authority to fine a cruise ship for violations. Ships scoring less than 85 out of 100 points on their inspections are required to submit corrective action reports with followup reports as corrections are completed. Typically, a failing score will result in a second inspection within a couple of months to see about progress. If problems are egregious enough, or repetitive, USPH can block the ship from boarding passengers until problems are corrected. In extreme cases, USPH can revoke a ship's certificate to board passengers in US ports, either temporarily or permanently.

 

When I was on Regal transatlantic this year as we were about to have a sanitation inspection at 8am all the coffeemakers in the HC were out of service with a sanitizing cycle going on and placards marked do not use hung on them.

Crew said the machines were a favorite target for inspection and often failed so they rendered them inoperable.

Edited December 2, 2016 by Griller

[delliemd]

This news is devastating. It will certainly harm the cruise industry and so it should. We hear all about the environment safety concerns, on and on....... We have cruised 30 times on Princess and feel as guilty as hell. I think of all the wonderful pristine waters we sailed on the 2016 World cruise, I pray we were not polluting the waters with oil then. Our 2018 world cruise is with HAL hopefully they will have better standards. Totally unbelievable.

 

wondering how we all will be affected(too late for the ocean) cruising on Princess in a few weeks ,it has always been my favorite.Disappointed in the people who thought their actions were ok,heads are rolling.