Koningsdam MDR disappointment

[ithaca gal]

Yes...yes. Send the anytime diners to the Lido. How dare those peons interrupt our fixed dining experience by invading our dining room as we sit above the masses sipping our glasses of wine!

 

Oh.....perhaps you could throw a few crumbs of bread down from above while we anytime diners wait until we too can devour a few left over morsels of food! Talk about attitude!:rolleyes::rolleyes::rolleyes:

 

I don't really have a dog in this fight, but .... it appears you started it with the "Disruptions be damned" remark. I was taken aback by your self-centered attitude but didn't comment. I'm glad someone did.

 

It is HAL's problem to fix it but a little understanding on the part of the people being trotted in and out during fixed dining would be nice. For years and years and years, people in fixed dining have come to expect a certain experience and having people at your table when you arrive, having other people's wine bottles sitting at your table when you arrive and just have people "scooching" by your table off an on during the meal are not part of that experience.

[Cahpek]

Interesting the comments about quality of food as well as the open fixed dining option. We have mostly been on HAL over the last few years but have also been on Oceania three times, Seabourn and Celebrity. Celebrity we have eliminated completely as having an overly noisy dining room, far worse than our experience on Koningsdam and a mix of meals from very good to poor. Seabourn we were generally happy with though were irritated that you could not have breakfast or lunch in the MDR which is where we usually eat. Oceania was better, or so I thought but on our recent 18 night trip on a portion of their world cruise I was not happy. Three times I asked for my steak to be well done and it was not even close, one time I ordered the poached salmon on the available everyday menu. It looked beautiful on the plate but when you cut into it it was completely raw, only a fine layer of the outer surface was cooked. You are then faced with the choice of sending it back, or going hungry. If it goes back you end up not eating with your partner. This is totally unacceptable particularly on a line that states it has the best food at sea. They even give you a list of the terms of how your steak is cooked, but then do not follow it. I am not the only person to complain on here about this. For a line which claims to be the best food at sea this is unacceptable. Fine if you want a lot of lobster say, which we do not, but otherwise not that brilliant. HAL measures up in many areas and in fact is better on breakfasts, salads and variety of veg. These two cruiselines are the two we will probably continue to cruise on, with HAL being the choice if the route is what we want to do.

 

I know many people will not agree with this, but it is our view. All round we think HAL is good value for money.

 

You would be right to indicate that Oceania Cruises isn't that perfect, no cruise line ever is. However, we noticed that if passengers make enough negative comments or complaints to management, or indirectly via CruiseCritic, they seem to take notice and you may find that they have addressed that issue the next time you cruise. That was our experience with Oceania .

 

However, it is "encouraging" to read that between Oceania and HAL, you would choose HAL to be the first choice if the route is what you want. As we have mentioned, this will be our first cruise with HAL, so we just hope, hope and hope that things (especially meal standards) will not be as mediocre as some have indicated.

[idiebabe]

Careful about claiming what everyone that has sailed on the Koningsdam has commented. ;)

 

I have sailed on her and have not commented about an open/fixed dining issue on our cruise - because we did not have any fixed dining on the cruise! :D

 

I'm not claiming that everyone who has sailed has commented! I was referring to the negative comments by those that have actually sailed and posted! Now, the way you are wording your last sentence "we did not have any fixed dining on the cruise" are you saying there was no Fixed dining on the cruise you were on and it was all Open?

[Florida_gal_50]

I'm not claiming that everyone who has sailed has commented! I was referring to the negative comments by those that have actually sailed and posted! Now, the way you are wording your last sentence "we did not have any fixed dining on the cruise" are you saying there was no Fixed dining on the cruise you were on and it was all Open?

I don't think my posts have been negative about the koningsdam and yes I have sailed on the ship. I think the ship is just beautiful and I didn't notice any more service issues than I have on any other Hal ships. The koningsdam is not my favorite ship but that is based more on some design issues that I don't care for.

[Hlitner]

We think the OP is confusing service (or lack thereof) issues with the dining scheme. Having done more then our share of HAL cruising we always now request Open Dining. The idea of dining when we want, with whom we want, fits our lifestyle on and off ships. I would point out to the OP that most decent land-based restaurants have "Open Seating" and do quite fine. Mixing Open and Fixed on a ship should not be a problem for a properly staffed and managed dining room In fact, most top land based restaurants prefer to staffer reservations so that the cooks are not forced to crank out huge amounts of the same course at the same time and it actually helps the serving staff more efficiently serve the diners

 

Hank

[Florida_gal_50]

We think the OP is confusing service (or lack thereof) issues with the dining scheme. Having done more then our share of HAL cruising we always now request Open Dining. The idea of dining when we want, with whom we want, fits our lifestyle on and off ships. I would point out to the OP that most decent land-based restaurants have "Open Seating" and do quite fine. Mixing Open and Fixed on a ship should not be a problem for a properly staffed and managed dining room In fact, most top land based restaurants prefer to staffer reservations so that the cooks are not forced to crank out huge amounts of the same course at the same time and it actually helps the serving staff more efficiently serve the diners

 

Hank

Good point. I was thinking the same thing. When you are in a land restaurant you will have people coming and going. That doesn't bother me in the least. I'd take that any day over screaming children and babies which thankfully doesn't happen a lot on Hal.

[sammiedawg]

Just saying, but it was the open-seating diner who felt neglected when seated in the fixed dining venue. Please read the original complaint and that it may be a warning of what it can be like if you are given the option to be seated somewhere in the middle of the fixed-dining service delivery schedule.

 

You are missing an important point, most of us follow the directives of the front line crew members. It is not an option or choice. We sit where we are directed for an open table. I have never gotten into an argument about anything while on board a ship or plane.

Most of us go with the flow and the flow is going in the wrong direction, both service and food are shadows of what they used to be.

Agree with another comment many of us do not know which dining room is open and which one is fixed. On Prinsendam we were sent several times to the flowery dining room, we knew little about the ship. Turns out it was fixed. On at least two other HAL ships we were sent upstairs, turned out to be fixed. On all three ships we were mostly ignored and could see the stress on the waiter's face. I don't blame the waiters and didn't on the post cruise survey. But I had harsh words for the head waiters who totally ignored us, even though they were bouncing table to table all around us.

 

The core problem is thin staffing levels in both venues. It is unlikely to change.

[OlsSalt]

You are missing an important point, most of us follow the directives of the front line crew members. It is not an option or choice. We sit where we are directed for an open table. I have never gotten into an argument about anything while on board a ship or plane.

Most of us go with the flow and the flow is going in the wrong direction, both service and food are shadows of what they used to be.

Agree with another comment many of us do not know which dining room is open and which one is fixed. On Prinsendam we were sent several times to the flowery dining room, we knew little about the ship. Turns out it was fixed. On at least two other HAL ships we were sent upstairs, turned out to be fixed. On all three ships we were mostly ignored and could see the stress on the waiter's face. I don't blame the waiters and didn't on the post cruise survey. But I had harsh words for the head waiters who totally ignored us, even though they were bouncing table to table all around us.

 

The core problem is thin staffing levels in both venues. It is unlikely to change.

 

You posted a good warning. Hope others can make a choice.

[Cahpek]

On our first HAL cruises the MDR was quite good, but on the last two (Noordam & Oosterdam) the food quality and service had gone down hill. We found the service slow (2 hours to just get served 3 courses) and the food was usually tepid and over salty.

 

To some extent here is the same problem of food temperature and saltiness in the Lido, but it's easier to avoid it as there is a wider choice with all the various stations. Not sure if the Koninsgdam is the same but on all the other ships they cook pasta to order. They used to make paninis to order, but I don't think they do now. I was often happy to just have the salad bar with a slice of meat from the carvery.... or a couple of cold appetisers and no main.

Ideally we will eat in the MDR some evenings, but it depends on how it is. It will be interesting to try the Dutch Cafe this trip as well.

 

We are going for routing, the scenery and the scenic cruising, as I expect you are too .... if we get some great food too, that will be a bonus! :cool:

 

Over salty cooking? Food not sufficiently hot when served? Oh dear, we really dread the thought - over salty food reminds us of the cooking in many restaurants in Portugal. It was so bad we simply could not swallow. Trouble is, our die is cast, we have booked and paid for the cruise, so we will have to go on it whether it is over salty , tepid food or not. One thing's for sure, if the food is a bad as described by some here, it could be our first and last cruise with HAL. Sounds silly perhaps, but we are still hoping that somehow, just somehow, we will find something nice to eat on board (and not just having to go to the speciality restaurants). Other wise, we may find that we will LOSE WEIGHT after the cruise rather than gaining it.....well, we suppose, there's always a "silver lining" to every dark cloud!

Edited May 22, 2017 by Cahpek

[debsjc]

Over salty cooking? Food not sufficiently hot when served? Oh dear, we really dread the thought - over salty food reminds us of the cooking in many restaurants in Portugal. It was so bad we simply could not swallow. Trouble is, our die is cast, we have booked and paid for the cruise, so we will have to go on it whether it is over salty , tepid food or not. One thing's for sure, if the food is a bad as described by some here, it could be our first and last cruise with HAL. Sounds silly perhaps, but we are still hoping that somehow, just somehow, we will find something nice to eat on board (and not just having to go to the speciality restaurants). Other wise, we may find that we will LOSE WEIGHT after the cruise rather than gaining it.....well, we suppose, there's always a "silver lining" to every dark cloud!

 

Partly it might be our taste, we cook everything from scratch at home, and don't over season. But then we go out and eat in the UK quite a bit, and on vacations, and haven't had many issues.

I found the sauces and soups the worst, so I avoid dishes with a sauce. If you order a steak or salmon fillet (which are on the menu all the time) with a baked potato, then it was fine and often warmer too!

There will definitely be some nice things, it;s just a matter of picking and choosing. The desserts are usually good, and on sea days there is usually a nice posh afternoon tea. I didn't mention the Dive In burger bar for lunchtimes earlier, that is good as well.

Edited May 22, 2017 by debsjc
typo

[Florida_gal_50]

Partly it might be our taste, we cook everything from scratch at home, and don't over season. But then we go out and eat in the UK quite a bit, and on vacations, and haven't had many issues.

I found the sauces and soups the worst, so I avoid dishes with a sauce. If you order a steak or salmon fillet (which are on the menu all the time) with a baked potato, then it was fine and often warmer too!

There will definitely be some nice things, it;s just a matter of picking and choosing. The desserts are usually good, and on sea days there is usually a nice posh afternoon tea. I didn't mention the Dive In burger bar for lunchtimes earlier, that is good as well.

It just goes to show how tastes vary. I think the desserts are almost always bad on Hal with very few exceptions. I do love most of the soups except for the cold fruit based which seem like dessert. The soups are salty but generally I find most soups are anywhere. I cook mostly from scratch at home as well.

[OlsSalt]

Over salty cooking? Food not sufficiently hot when served? - over salty food reminds us of the cooking in many restaurants in Portugal. It was so bad we simply could not swallow. Trouble is, our die is cast, we have booked and paid for the cruise, so we will have to go on it whether it is over salty , tepid food or not. One thing's for sure, if the food is a bad as described by some here, it could be our first and last cruise with HAL. Sounds silly perhaps, but we are still hoping that somehow, just somehow, we will find something nice to eat on board (and not just having to go to the speciality restaurants). Other wise, we may find that we will LOSE WEIGHT after the cruise rather than gaining it.....well, we suppose, there's always a "silver lining" to every dark cloud!

 

I am so sorry you are collecting such a bad impression about the HAL food - I write for a food column and feel I have earned a certain level of discernment about food and dining after years of living in Europe and often traveling just to dine in well-known restaurants. HAL food is really okay - there is always something appealing - and you hear as many complaining about bland food as you do over-salty so where does leave anyone?

 

Call if nice hotel banquet food - it is not "gourmet" nor individually prepared but it has interesting variety, often fresh and there are only so many things you can do with chicken, beef and fish night after night. And occasional lamb or pork or turkey. Plus their vegetarian offering have gotten very creative. And when all else fails or you feel you have enjoyed the HAL food too much after all, there is alway a very nice dinner salad.

[cruisetheworld67]

I don't really have a dog in this fight, but .... it appears you started it with the "Disruptions be damned" remark. I was taken aback by your self-centered attitude but didn't comment. I'm glad someone did.

 

It is HAL's problem to fix it but a little understanding on the part of the people being trotted in and out during fixed dining would be nice. For years and years and years, people in fixed dining have come to expect a certain experience and having people at your table when you arrive, having other people's wine bottles sitting at your table when you arrive and just have people "scooching" by your table off an on during the meal are not part of that experience.

 

 

REally??? Taken aback by my self centered attitude? Tough cookies!!!

 

I was taken aback when poster suggested that a "solution" would be to direct anytime diners to the Lido so as not to "disrupt" the "dining experience" of the Fixed diners. Heaven forbid!!! Or that anytime diners should refuse to be seated upstairs in fixed dining but instead continue to wait for a table in anytime dining. What you don't seem to comprehend ( and don't feel bad you're obviously not alone); this decision is made by the HAL dining room staff....NOT the passengers. I imagine if the MDR manager tells an anytime diner that a table or seats are available upstairs and one refuses to go; they will look at you and wonder " Do you want to wait another 20 minutes or do you want to eat???" Don't put the onus of the decision on the passenger or have the passenger insist on continuing to wait or the solution of "send 'em to the Lido!!!". No. No. We paid to eat in the MDR. We ain't going to the Lido! We are coming upstairs! And if you don't like it I have a suggestion.....you go to the Lido!:p

 

Oh and BTW horses are "trotted"....not people......unless of course you perceive anytime diners invading the fixed dining area as such?

Edited May 23, 2017 by cruisetheworld67

[foodsvcmgr]

Has anyone actually been given the REASON why the dining is run this way on KONINGSDAM compared to the rest of the fleet?

Is it the size or capacity of the ship itself or the dining room levels or more demand for open seating on this ship than typical?

Or merely an experiment that doesn't really work too well?

[Boytjie]

Now, the way you are wording your last sentence "we did not have any fixed dining on the cruise" are you saying there was no Fixed dining on the cruise you were on and it was all Open?

 

Correct. On our charters it is all open dining in the dining room.

[kazu]

<snip>.

 

 

Koningsdam is the only Ship at this time who have mixed Open/Fixed together. The Nieuw Statendam will probably follow suit. Hopefully, the other Ships will not go to this format! The Waitstaffs hate it! We were told this by our Waitstaff on two other Ships that we sailed recently who had friends on Kdam. They said no one wants this Ship! The one thing they did on Kdam is having the "Serving Room" instead of Serving Stations throughout the MDR where the food is brought up from the kitchen. This also seems to be adding to problems!

 

Bolding is mine. When we were on the Westerdam they mixed the open/fixed dining. I reported it on my live thread. We were on Fixed dining and seated in the Lower Level. However, we found our service good and it appeared that different waiters were taking care of the Open and Fixed.

[iancal]

We cannot imagine going back to fixed dining again. We much prefer open.

[KroozNut]

Bolding is mine. When we were on the Westerdam they mixed the open/fixed dining. I reported it on my live thread. We were on Fixed dining and seated in the Lower Level. However, we found our service good and it appeared that different waiters were taking care of the Open and Fixed.

 

Good to hear a report that it appears they are getting better at managing this process. :) Although not so encouraged that it is spreading to other 'dam ships:(

I just hope that it hasn't found its way to Oosterdam by the time we sail in September.

[KroozNut]

We cannot imagine going back to fixed dining again. We much prefer open.

 

We went back to fixed for our upcoming cruise in September after 'testing the anytime waters' for a few years. We realized that we missed the experience of traditional / fixed and are looking forward to coming back. :)

[RuthC]

Bolding is mine. When we were on the Westerdam they mixed the open/fixed dining. I reported it on my live thread. We were on Fixed dining and seated in the Lower Level. However, we found our service good and it appeared that different waiters were taking care of the Open and Fixed.

I am willing to bet my cruise budget that your last statement is what made the difference. With different stewards responsible for the fixed/open diners, each was able to keep to the rhythm particular to that option.

[Stella1250]

Well, I kind of hope the MDR isn't so great, because all of the other choices seem so good! Dive In, Dutch Café, Tamarind, etc, OH MY THEY ARE GOING TO HAVE TO TAKE ME OFF THE SHIP IN A WHEELBARROW

[Boytjie]

Well, I kind of hope the MDR isn't so great, because all of the other choices seem so good! Dive In, Dutch Café, Tamarind, etc, OH MY THEY ARE GOING TO HAVE TO TAKE ME OFF THE SHIP IN A WHEELBARROW

 

The Culinary Arts Center is also worth a try - they have two different menus that they alternate daily, so you can go there twice. $39 and it includes wine.

[Stella1250]

Oh great. Another few thousand calories on my hips!

[idiebabe]

Correct. On our charters it is all open dining in the dining room.

 

Thanks for clearing that up as one could take it that they changed to all Open Seating on non-chartered Sailings. We did the Kdam TA in October and did the last Sailing before the Spring TA and it was still the Open/Fixed mixed on both levels.

 

Bolding is mine. When we were on the Westerdam they mixed the open/fixed dining. I reported it on my live thread. We were on Fixed dining and seated in the Lower Level. However, we found our service good and it appeared that different waiters were taking care of the Open and Fixed.

 

We sailed the Westerdam this past February for the Circle Hawaii. We were Upper Level, Late Seating and all of Upper Level was Fixed Dining. I'm not sure about Lower Level and spoke from my experience on her a few months ago. We had excellent Service and actually had our same Server as on our Veendam sailing from 1 1/2 years ago. Really enjoy when paths cross again with Crew we've sailed with before! :D

 

I think that helped your Service if they assigned a different Waitstaff to Fixed and to Open Seaters. We've only been put in Open once and that was two years ago on Nieuw Amsterdam when there was a group of 200 on the Upper Level. They assigned us a Table as if we were Fixed and we had the same Waitstaff every night. They took good care of us! Our Waitstaff on both our Kdam sailings were really stretched thin with having to deal with the Fixed/Open mixed in and having multiple 6-tops, a 2-top and two 10-top tables. Too much for one Server and an Assistant!

[jhsocal]

As mentioned in earlier post, have wondered if a higher percentage want open seating than on other HAL ships. Is the MDR larger in relation to the larger number of cruisers? Suspect HAL counts on certain percentage not dining in MDR on any given night. Perhaps they hope more people will spend "big bucks" to eat at the other restaurants. We are past the adjustment stage, there must be some strategy involved.