Gratuities options

[dkjretired]

I don't know how Celebrity divides up the daily gratuities. Different lines call the daily charge by different names, and some lines break out the distribution, while others do not. Some do not call them gratuities at all. So, except for the employees and employers, none of us really know how the tipping system works.

 

But we do know the workers are not paid "$50 a month" in regular wages. Those days are long gone. All cruise line employees are members of the ITF Seafarers union, and their negotiated minimum wage and working hours are well established. The numbers on that page are confirmed by the glass door website, where employees self-report wages, and all tipped positions are listed at $10 / hour or $1,000 or more per month for servers, stewards, etc. The results for the other cruise lines listed on glass door are comparable (Carnival, NCL and RCL). In case you don't think that Celebrity is signatory to the union, you can go to this page and enter "Celebrity" as the search phrase. You will see Celebrity's ships listed.

 

We don't know if Celebrity uses gratuity money or "wages money" to pay their workers the contracted, union-negotiated rate. But they get paid that rate if you remove the daily gratuity or add more to it. They get paid that rate if the ship sails empty.

 

Celebrity evidently doesn't say what happens to cash tips given to their employees. I don't know if they are really pooled and divided up by the company. I do know it is very common here in the US for waitstaff to share their tips with the non-tipped positions like the hostess, bus person, and other tipped positions like the bar tender. NCL seems to say the employees you recognize with an extra cash tip are allowed to keep it.

 

For the record, we always leave the daily gratuities in place. But you can't justify it based on the employees being paid only $50 a month.

 

Sorry don't buy it for cruise employees. It is well know that these people work many hours per day, week=ends, nights and holidays. Unless I'm reading the chart you supplied a link for they would be getting overtime and/or special pay for hours beyond 8.

[donaldsc]

Never sailed on Celebrity.

 

Can you pre-pay tips ahead of sailing - as Princess allow ?

 

Can you opt out of the daily gratuities on joining the ship and give to staff direct on leaving ?

 

Only people who are cheap pikers opt out of the daily gratuities.

[swigso]

Only people who are cheap pikers opt out of the daily gratuities.

:eek::D:D

[Swissmiss6253]

As an Australian I always read tipping threads like an anthropological study. I do in Rome though, so we pre pay tips, scatter $1 and $2 around to bar staff and toilet attendants during the cruise, and tip our steward and wait staff (if we keep the same ones) at the end. All extra tips are for good service though.

[WeeCountyMan]

The simple answer would be to pay the staff (all types) a proper wage and stick the cost of it on the price of a cruise, then the prescribed gratuities could be binned.

 

One UK line includes tips in the upfront price.

[dkjretired]

The simple answer would be to pay the staff (all types) a proper wage and stick the cost of it on the price of a cruise, then the prescribed gratuities could be binned.

 

One UK line includes tips in the upfront price.

 

Problem with that is then people will start tipping and in five years we'll have the same conversation. Happened on other cruise lines in the past.

[NLH Arizona]

The simple answer would be to pay the staff (all types) a proper wage and stick the cost of it on the price of a cruise, then the prescribed gratuities could be binned.

 

One UK line includes tips in the upfront price.

This would be the smartest thing any cruise line could do. Add it to the cost of the cruise and many folks will continue to tip...the staff would make out.

 

NCL now includes gratuities in the cost for many non-US countries.

[Alakegirl]

As does Celebrity for some itineraries.

[CEOofVacation]

Always leave auto tips in place and then tip more for excellence service. On our last cruise we did not bring alot of USD money with us and we went to the ship ATM to withdraw an extra $500 and we distributed the money to various folks who provided excellent service - cabin steward, our server and the assistant servers, assistant maitre d' and Michaels' bartenders. The one that we should have told guest services to not distribute auto gratuities was our butler. He did nothing... really nothing, even when asked.

[cruisestitch]

There is now a new Suite Manager position, a person on board in charge of the butlers. If it ever happens again contact him/her immediately.

[CEOofVacation]

There is now a new Suite Manager position, a person on board in charge of the butlers. If it ever happens again contact him/her immediately.

 

Thank you. I will keep that in mind.

[fshagan]

I don’t know what celebrity pays, obviously, but there’s often a large difference between mandatory wage and expected wage. Again, when working as a waitress, we were paid $2.65 an hour. Minimum was closer to $8 an hour. Yes, we reported tips and if you didn’t make minimum wage with tips, the company was on the hook to pay the difference. But I averaged out closer to $12 an hour with tips. So still talking about quite a difference between what I made with tips and what I was guaranteed to make no matter what. I wouldn’t be surprised if it was the same on the ship with tipped positions. And I can also tell you that while I worked there, no one tried to tell management that they didn’t make minimum wage with tips. I don’t think that would have been looked at favorably if they had. Would make you wonder why they were so bad at their jobs that they couldn’t earn a minimal amount of tips.

 

There are a lot of different minimum wage laws in the US, where each state can set it's own law that can be more generous to the employee than the federal minimum wage. The ITF information gives us some insight, just as the minimum wage laws where you worked would have had the $2.65 rate, plus make up to the standard minimum wage if tip income did not rise to the right level.

 

So we don't know what Celebrity's individual agreements with the union are. We do know the workers are not paid $50 a month plus tips. They have a minimum wage just like we are used to. I suspect like your experience, the cruise lines might have two line items on their checks, one for tips and one for wages. The total has to equal what they are contractually owed. This is pure speculation based on some fact: It may be the workers from places where tips are not taxed, such as the Philippines, perfer a large "tip" line and a smaller "wages" line. After all, they are in a high tax bracket without excluding some income from taxes.

 

The ITF minimum wage and negotiated amount is a very good wage. For a Filipino the $1,000 a month they earn with overtime, etc., is about four times that in their local economy. At about $1,500 a month they are earning what skilled workers like aircraft mechanics or white collar jobs like junior associate in a law firm.

 

But they work very hard for that money, and I completely respect them for that. I won't give the company any reason to re-negotiate the contracts at less favorable terms for them. I will pay the daily charge and won't "make up" reasons to remove them as some do.

[fshagan]

Sorry don't buy it for cruise employees. It is well know that these people work many hours per day, week=ends, nights and holidays. Unless I'm reading the chart you supplied a link for they would be getting overtime and/or special pay for hours beyond 8.

 

They do, but it all wraps up to that contracted amount. Each employee has a "contract" with the company (actually, it's formally with the ship's captain who represents the company). It guarantees that wage. They are expected to work the maximum hours per day, which is 13, I believe (could be 11), and overtime pay is included as per the ITF Seafarer's agreement.

 

The ships are signatories to the union contract and the ITF minimum wages have to be paid. It is an international agreement for seafarers.

[fshagan]

The simple answer would be to pay the staff (all types) a proper wage and stick the cost of it on the price of a cruise, then the prescribed gratuities could be binned.

 

One UK line includes tips in the upfront price.

 

NCL does that now with their "all-inclusive" cruises for the UK sales office. Funny thing, though, the total price of the cruises with the included daily service charge is more than just adding the old cruise price and daily charge together. So a few people from the UK on the NCL board are complaining about that, and wondering if they can book with US travel agents.

[ECCruise]

What a cornucopia of misinformation here.

 

Where to start?

1) Gratuity based employees are NOT members of the seafarers union. Those wages that keep erroneously being quoted are for Able Bodied Seamen. Overtime? No such animal for gratuity based employees. Talk of 48 hour weeks? On what planet? Not on cruise ships. Have some of you ever talked to cruise staff?

 

2) I love how one of you casually sloughs off the $50 per month salary. Unfortunately, unless something has changed recently, that IS the established salary for gratuity based employees. To think that they would be making $10 an hour or more and then having gratuities tacked on to that is ludicrous.

 

3) The Glass Door website cited includes tips, which is basically those employees only income. The totals are probably accurate, but a 4th grader doing the math could figure that after deducting gratuities that $XX per dollar guaranteed income is nowhere to be found. Take a steward's average cabin load, multiply by daily grat charges and voila! The average monthly income. Do the same for a waiter. Same result.

 

This is why tipping threads get so contentious. Lots of bad information that gets recycled and regurgitated.

 

Yes, it would be better if the cruise lines (like Azamara in the RCCL family) included gratuities, but to do so would raise the fares above the comfort level of many (even though, in the final analysis, the total is exactly the same). Marketing 101.

[ORV]

Hooked, Set & Landed. Well done Little Rural Feller.

[mafig]

What a cornucopia of misinformation here.

 

Where to start?

1) Gratuity based employees are NOT members of the seafarers union. Those wages that keep erroneously being quoted are for Able Bodied Seamen. Overtime? No such animal for gratuity based employees. Talk of 48 hour weeks? On what planet? Not on cruise ships. Have some of you ever talked to cruise staff?

 

2) I love how one of you casually sloughs off the $50 per month salary. Unfortunately, unless something has changed recently, that IS the established salary for gratuity based employees. To think that they would be making $10 an hour or more and then having gratuities tacked on to that is ludicrous.

 

3) The Glass Door website cited includes tips, which is basically those employees only income. The totals are probably accurate, but a 4th grader doing the math could figure that after deducting gratuities that $XX per dollar guaranteed income is nowhere to be found. Take a steward's average cabin load, multiply by daily grat charges and voila! The average monthly income. Do the same for a waiter. Same result.

 

This is why tipping threads get so contentious. Lots of bad information that gets recycled and regurgitated.

 

Yes, it would be better if the cruise lines (like Azamara in the RCCL family) included gratuities, but to do so would raise the fares above the comfort level of many (even though, in the final analysis, the total is exactly the same). Marketing 101.

 

 

I had heard that $50 a month was the salary when we first started cruising in 2000. After reading this thread I was happy to hear that perhaps it had gone up. But I guess not.

Knowing that, I can't imagine how anyone would remove gratuities without having a problem sleeping at night.:( Some people are just cheap, selfish and mean.

[Toofarfromthesea]

The simple answer would be to pay the staff (all types) a proper wage and stick the cost of it on the price of a cruise, then the prescribed gratuities could be binned.

 

One UK line includes tips in the upfront price.

 

That isn't the simple answer, it is an excuse for screwing over the employees. Screwing the employees over is not going to change anything in the way mass market cruise lines operate. But by all means people should use opportunistic arbitrage between completely different cultures to keep their money in their own pocket.

[Toofarfromthesea]

NCL does that now with their "all-inclusive" cruises for the UK sales office. Funny thing, though, the total price of the cruises with the included daily service charge is more than just adding the old cruise price and daily charge together. So a few people from the UK on the NCL board are complaining about that, and wondering if they can book with US travel agents.

 

Yeah, they argue that including the grats right in the fare is the way is should be, and then when it happens they want it to be the other way. Maybe the total is larger with tips included in the fare because the cruise line has to make up for losing the tax advantage they and their employees got before. And I wonder how many of those UKers who book with TAs in the US end up taking their grants off, thus eating their cake and having it?

[fshagan]

What a cornucopia of misinformation here.

 

Where to start?

1) Gratuity based employees are NOT members of the seafarers union. Those wages that keep erroneously being quoted are for Able Bodied Seamen. Overtime? No such animal for gratuity based employees. Talk of 48 hour weeks? On what planet? Not on cruise ships. Have some of you ever talked to cruise staff?

 

2) I love how one of you casually sloughs off the $50 per month salary. Unfortunately, unless something has changed recently, that IS the established salary for gratuity based employees. To think that they would be making $10 an hour or more and then having gratuities tacked on to that is ludicrous.

 

3) The Glass Door website cited includes tips, which is basically those employees only income. The totals are probably accurate, but a 4th grader doing the math could figure that after deducting gratuities that $XX per dollar guaranteed income is nowhere to be found. Take a steward's average cabin load, multiply by daily grat charges and voila! The average monthly income. Do the same for a waiter. Same result.

 

This is why tipping threads get so contentious. Lots of bad information that gets recycled and regurgitated.

 

Yes, it would be better if the cruise lines (like Azamara in the RCCL family) included gratuities, but to do so would raise the fares above the comfort level of many (even though, in the final analysis, the total is exactly the same). Marketing 101.

 

Do you have any proof? An assertion is not proof.

 

I don't casually slough off the $50 a month wages claim. It is false, based on my research online and personal discussions with financial and tax advisers that work with crew.

 

One of the chief engineers who spent many years on NCL confirmed that all employees, except subcontractors like entertainers, children's counselors, spa staff, etc. are indeed members of the ITF Seafarers union. It is required. All of the staff who wait on us, clean our rooms, and make our vacations great are members. The union contract is negotiated with the individual cruise line and their home country's union reps, so many of the crew do not even realize they are members. Each one does have a contract spelling out the pay they will get.

 

You admit the data on the glass door site appears correct, and it matches the minimum pay grid on the ITF Seafarer's union site. Workers are required to work the overtime in their contracts, and the grid on the bottom of that linked page squares nicely with it. It also agrees with the numerous YouTube videos about "life on a cruise ship".

 

We don't know how X or any other line breaks out their paycheck, but the workers get paid. It may be like the former wait person who said their wages were $2.85 an hour and if they didn't get to the minimum wage with declared tips then the company had to backfill their wages to that minimum. That could be the same for cruise line workers.

 

But they aren't paid $50 a month "plus tips" and they don't have to shovel coal in their off hours.

[fshagan]

I had heard that $50 a month was the salary when we first started cruising in 2000. After reading this thread I was happy to hear that perhaps it had gone up. But I guess not.

Knowing that, I can't imagine how anyone would remove gratuities without having a problem sleeping at night.:( Some people are just cheap, selfish and mean.

 

The question is, if you believe they are exploited like that, how can you cruise at all?

 

It simply isn't true any longer, and hasn't been for a long time.

[hcat]

I had heard that $50 a month was the salary when we first started cruising in 2000. After reading this thread I was happy to hear that perhaps it had gone up. But I guess not.

Knowing that, I can't imagine how anyone would remove gratuities without having a problem sleeping at night.:( Some people are just cheap, selfish and mean.

Aside from all the back and forth discussion....cheap is cheap! Enuff said!

[swigso]

Yeah, they argue that including the grats right in the fare is the way is should be, and then when it happens they want it to be the other way. Maybe the total is larger with tips included in the fare because the cruise line has to make up for losing the tax advantage they and their employees got before. And I wonder how many of those UKers who book with TAs in the US end up taking their grants off, thus eating their cake and having it?

That is a very unfair assumption.

I have been cruising for many years and have never taken off “any grants”, in fact one year I paid those wonderful guys in the restaurant the tips that my miserly former friend tried to stiff on the last night.

Please don’t prejudge

[swigso]

The other thing I do not understand is that when I book usually the Gratuites are included, as a perk , I really hope that doesn’t make me cheap 😱

[swigso]

The simple answer would be to pay the staff (all types) a proper wage and stick the cost of it on the price of a cruise, then the prescribed gratuities could be binned.

 

One UK line includes tips in the upfront price.

I suggest you keep on cruising with them.

Love these threads they really caus3 a storm,

What is your fav cruise line by the way,