Why is the Vista not a favorite?

[Sizzlechest]

What you may consider to be poor choices in your opinion does not make them "design flaws". :rolleyes:

 

What's the difference?

[lcpagejr]

People love to complain.... Everyone is entitled to their opinion.... But Vista is no where near as "bad" as many post. She is a great ship with many offerings including , like the Dream Class, a great outside promenade area!!

[Computer Nerd]

What's the difference?

 

A design flaw is an engineering mistake (such as designing a rudder too small to turn a ship properly). A poor choice is a personal preference that is different for each person.

 

I have sailed the Vista. While I don't agree with all of their choices (such as the lack of glass elevators in the atrium), there are no design flaws.

[Thorncroft]

A design flaw is an engineering mistake (such as designing a rudder too small to turn a ship properly). A poor choice is a personal preference that is different for each person.

 

I have sailed the Vista. While I don't agree with all of their choices (such as the lack of glass elevators in the atrium), there are no design flaws.

 

 

Comforting to know that you've inspected and approved the design.

[Sizzlechest]

A design flaw is an engineering mistake (such as designing a rudder too small to turn a ship properly). A poor choice is a personal preference that is different for each person.

 

Using your categories... An engineering mistake and a poor choice are both design flaws. If the latter is not, what is it a poor choice of? "There are two few elevators." That's a poor choice. Why? Too many people and not enough elevators. Why? They didn't account for the need in their design. That's a design flaw and a poor choice.

[Computer Nerd]

Using your categories... An engineering mistake and a poor choice are both design flaws. If the latter is not, what is it a poor choice of? "There are two few elevators." That's a poor choice. Why? Too many people and not enough elevators. Why? They didn't account for the need in their design. That's a design flaw and a poor choice.

 

I'm guessing you don't understand the word "flaw" so here is the definition. If the elevator cables were too thin to hold the expected weight, that would be a flaw (factual). Your belief that there aren't enough elevators is an opinion (and a poor choice) held by you but not everyone else (non-factual). Personally, I never had an issue getting an elevator when I needed one. As I stated, I miss the glass elevators but again, that is simply my belief that a poor choice was made but many others probably couldn't care less. But the lack of glass elevators is not a flaw.

 

 

Definition of flaw

 

1a : a defect in physical structure or form

 

[Computer Nerd]

Comforting to know that you've inspected and approved the design.

 

Yes, I did that when I sailed her in March 2018. Have you sailed her yet?

[Sizzlechest]

I'm guessing you don't understand the word "flaw" so here is the definition. If the elevator cables were too thin to hold the expected weight, that would be a flaw (factual). Your belief that there aren't enough elevators is an opinion (and a poor choice) held by you but not everyone else (non-factual). Personally, I never had an issue getting an elevator when I needed one. As I stated, I miss the glass elevators but again, that is simply my belief that a poor choice was made but many others probably couldn't care less. But the lack of glass elevators is not a flaw.

 

 

Definition of flaw

 

1a : a defect in physical structure or form

 

 

FULL definition of flaw:

a : a defect in physical structure or form

• a diamond with a flaw
  

 

b : an imperfection or weakness and especially one that detracts from the whole or hinders effectiveness

• vanity was the flaw in his character
  

 

• a flaw in the book's plot
  

So no, it's not limited to physical defects.

[auscgguysgirl]

What I didn't like is that I had to show up very early for shows in order to get a decent seat. Forty minutes for an adult comedy show and for a theater show. There were so many people that the good seats filled up very quickly. I also hated the theater. It is the worst I have ever seen. It's like they built the ship, made it bigger than the rest, but went back in time when they built the theater and decorated the interior of the ship.

 

I can relate to this ... but in an experience on a much smaller ship. The Sunshine. We sailed her right after dry dock. The altered layout was very choppy and the entire ship felt extremely crowded. It was the same w/ shows, comedy club and buffet lines, etc. We enjoyed the sailing, just not as much as we enjoyed our other cruises.

I also wonder if just overall the date and type of sailing has something to do w/ the crowds? In speculation - we sailed a 10 day Journey's cruise where probably 3/4 of the ship was 60 or over and all Diamond/Platinum ... the ship was a ghost ship after about 8:30 PM or before 8:00 AM. There were like 10 kids on the ship. It was WONDERFUL!

We sail the Vista in April and it will be the biggest ship to date that we have sailed. I am looking forward to it.

[auscgguysgirl]

Yes, I did that when I sailed her in March 2018. Have you sailed her yet?

 

:confused:

[Dr.H]

Yes, I did that when I sailed her in March 2018. Have you sailed her yet?

 

 

 

I have, and it fell way short of “my” expectations; a step down from the Breeze for sure. I’m happy that your standards and expectations were met (that, or you are a Carnival shill, or so overly committed to the brand that you can’t criticize them).

 

I think the meaning of design flaw can obviously be interpreted in different ways depending on what aspect you are focused on . When you focus on aesthetics, proportion, and overall customer satisfaction it obviously fell short for many of us (not for you...we get it).

[buddylover]

Some people are just too picky. I have sailed the Vista and thoroughly enjoyed her.

 

Not a matter of 'pickiness' at all!!! If you have cruised on a variety of different ships, it is based on facts and comparisons. When spending hard earned dollars everyone's expectations are different. We found the Vista beyond crowded.....the CD, Matt Mitchum was FABULOUS (he salvaged the Vista cruise for us), but the Atrium was FAR TOO SMALL for the crowds he drew, the theatre was a 'multi purpose' room and was abominable....with movable chairs, nowhere for drinks which ended up on the floor, poles blocking even the view from the main floor. The Limelight comedy theatre was too small...lines formed super early to be able to get in blocking a dreary, ugly, narrow hall. Passing in this hall was almost impossible without pushing and shoving pax. There are NO windows in this ship, they filled in every open area with more cabins to cram in more pax ($$$ for CCL's bottom line), NO WOW factor. The lido buffet was a zoo, getting a table was nearly impossible during normal dining times. Need I say more?? Not picky, just not up to par with all of the other ships we have sailed (and we are NOT picky, just don't like an ugly crowded ship with no WOW at all!)

[LostPuppy]

Some people are just too picky. I have sailed the Vista and thoroughly enjoyed her.

I agree, sailed on the Vista earlier this month and loved it; specifically:

• The overall design has been "toned down" from the gaudy old school look of Carnival ships.
  
• The LCD/LED columns in the Atrium/Casino were always interesting to see.
  
• Food in the Oceanview area on deck 5! Great alternative to Lido.
  
• Lots of places on Promenade to sit and enjoy sea days.
  
• Digital photo selection, nice!
  
• Red Frog Pub, Havana Bar, Plaza Bar (guess who likes varied bars).
  
• Didn't find the buffet ever too crowded (or Guy's Burgers/BBQ either), pretty much the same as any other Carnival ship. If you go at peak times, then yes, it's crowded.
  
• Sports bar was nice, lots of big screens, never saw it crowded.
  
• Skybikes were fun.
  
• Bonsai Sushi, JiJi's, Cucina Del Captaino, Seafood Shack were great alternative dining.
  
• Went to a couple of comedy shows. Doors were open and found a seat 15 minutes before showtime, no problem.
  
• Saw two shows, again same thing; walk in, find a seat.
  

Granted, not all of these are specific to the Vista, but I enjoyed my vacation on the Vista 100%. I think Carnival "got it right " on this class of ship.

[Dr.H]

I recently was talking to friend that is booked on the Vista. Turns out he likes the thermal spa on the Breeze as much as me and booked a suite on Vista just like I did. I told him about my disappointment and encouraged him to book a room with Havana access if possible as that is the only way I see myself going on that ship again.

 

 

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[jimbo5544]

Your observations are spot on.

My rating of Carnival ships:

Carnival Splendor 4* (best cruise ship ever built for Carnival/Costa)

Carnival Glory and sister ships - about 3.5*

Spirit class (Miracle, Legend, Pride) - about 3.5*

Dream class ships (Dream, Magic, Breeze) - near 3.0*

Carnival Vista 3*-

 

IMO it's a huge mistake by Carnival to build "Dream+" instead of completely new design.

Who knows why... money, time frame, contracts with the shipyard....

 

Carnival has a new design under its umbrella (AIDAPrima). Could be an option, but would require a thorough upgrade to meet Carnival standards.

 

 

 

With all these great ideas, I'm surprised they did not contact you before building all of these loser ships....what will they do with them now. I would be interested at what sets the Splendor out from the rest in your opinion. You may want to check out where Aida ships sail..... Happy cruising on cruise lines that meet your standards.

 

 

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[DenaInWyo]

I think some will love the ship, others not so much, which can be said about all of them, really. MY opinions from our 1/7-21/18 B2B:

 

The ship was so hyped, I think part of this is my fault. I bought into it. The reality is, this is Carnival's latest and greatest way to squeeze all the people they can on the ship for the profit. Most of the common areas are no larger, or in fact smaller, than Dream class ships, or in some cases even Conquest class. The cattle herd feeling was real here, to me.

 

The good (and there was a lot!)

1. Food was quite good, with JiJi's being the standout. I don't mind the nominal charge. Carnival is gonna do what it does best, make money. I just want a decent dinner, so I'll play along and pay up. It is what it is.

2. Service/crew were outstanding. Part of this was luck of the draw (we've had the unlucky hand in the past with stewards or MDR) and part of it was we were there two weeks and got to know some of them a bit better. We were treated really well!

3. Clean and well maintained.

4. Some unique, fun and/or relaxing areas to hang out such as the little uncrowded area off of Ocean Plaza or the aft pool area (that USUALLY wasn't too crowded..a good happy medium between crazy Lido and super chill Serenity..and they played good music back there).

 

Things I didn't care for much:

1. The LINES. Holy cow. Worst breakfast lines on the Lido I've ever seen, for pretty much the whole time they were serving. Luckily the MDR was great for breakfast every morning. The new breakfast menu on port days was pretty good, though I generally can't resist my usual eggs benedict and branch out much.

2. The decor. I know some prefer it, but for ME..well, I've seen more elegant office buildings. It feels very generic and cheap.

3. The atrium. My initial reaction when boarding the ship was not WOW! but Wow..that's IT? I was shocked at how much smaller it is than it looks in the photos. I get the reason, but honestly, there were the lines again. We finally managed to score a seat in the Thrill Theater on the very last day. Not worth it, IMO.

4. It's almost ..ALMOST not noticeable, but the cabins are smaller. The new closet setup sucks, and the bathroom shelves are smaller.

5. ANY entertainment you want to do will require you to arrive VERY early, whether it's the comedy club (plan an hour early), the piano bar, the sky ride (hour long line)..any of it.

6. Not Carnival's fault, but cruising out of Miami. The overall vibe of the crowd was less than friendly at times and we dealt with far more rude people than we have from other ports. Vista may indeed improve overall when it moves to Galveston.

 

 

I came away feeling like we had a good cruise. The B2B experience was amazing! Our ports overall were great. I did not feel like I'd entirely gotten my money's worth because I missed a lot due to not having the patience to stand in line for an hour. I think we would have been happier on a smaller ship, even a slightly smaller Dream class. At the end of the day, it's a bigger, newer ship, but it's Carnival's most generic cruise experience and does not live up to the hype. I would highly recommend a smaller ship. And again, a reminder..this is MY OPINION. I realize others will disagree.

[blyle]

I want to thank everyone for their very thoughtful comments. Even though we are seniors we like all ships. I was just so surprised when after a 12 year absence we decided to sail RCCL again. We never felt there was a line anywhere. We were always able to get a seat, chair couch etc in any lounge. The huge upstairs lounge bar area was empty most of the time except cocktail hour for Diamond and above. It really made me remember how it felt on the older Carnival ships that I love. We liked the ships of the Farcus era where everything had a theme and the entire ship was a place to explore. For example The sensation had speakers located all over the ship to give you a "sensation " of the area you were in. The last ship with a theme was the Magic where even the show was about Magic. The Breeze colors were blah not exciting and now the Vista is too,, from what you are saying. We like the shows so the small lounge will be an issue. My husband likes the Sports Bar and now that is small. We hear the Deli has also changed and we loved that too. We hardly ever eat at the buffet so the lines won't bother us there. But as a rule I hate lines and I really think after the money , tips , excursions, beverage packages and the nickel and diming for everything the least we should expect is NO LINES> So I will probably give the Vista a try but now I will watch the Liberty of the Seas prices very carefully because that ship had the things we do and like and I never thought that would happen. As for the CD Matt, yes he is great but.....he is not there forever and I only once booked a transatlantic to sail with a CD, John Heald and he ended up having a meeting in Florida and never showed. The substitute was ok but not what everyone was hoping for. Variety is good for cruise ships but I know from past experience that a letter with constructive criticism is welcomed by Carnival. I will sail and send my letter if necessary. I actually had a policy changed due to my negative experience on a ship and they were kind enough to send me a letter telling me of the change so.......I won't settle I'll give my opinion after I sail the Vista. Thanks to everyone for answering my questions in such a thorough way.

[DenaInWyo]

Blyle, I still love Carnival ships, but the smaller ones. I'm with you on the Farcas decor. I know some find it horrible, but I do not. I agree that the Magic seems to be the last of that era and we found that ship a good compromise between Vista and say, Splendor. I also have to say though that some of those ships are really very pretty, such as the Liberty, Pride and Legend. Then again, my 22 year old son thinks the Legend was horrible and describes it as a Catholic church lol

 

Over all though, the decor is just a part of it. The bigger part is the larger crowd fighting for the same space and in the process causing the loss of the personalized experience. Cruising is changing, and that is just all there is to it. I have 3 more that I will do before I throw in the towel for the specific experiences, but my next vacation is a flight to Roatan.

 

Edited to add: Hold out your opinion of the deli till you try it. I know a lot of people have bitched about it, but we thought it was delicious on the Vista. Food is something I had no complaints about at all on that cruise, but I also don't get fussed about paying for things like the seafood shack (good lord that crab was amazing!) or the other pay places. It's not going away, it's how things will be done from now on, and IMO it's worth the relatively cheap fee.

Edited February 15, 2018 by DenaInWyo

[jimbo5544]

I think some will love the ship, others not so much, which can be said about all of them, really. MY opinions from our 1/7-21/18 B2B:

 

The ship was so hyped, I think part of this is my fault. I bought into it. The reality is, this is Carnival's latest and greatest way to squeeze all the people they can on the ship for the profit. Most of the common areas are no larger, or in fact smaller, than Dream class ships, or in some cases even Conquest class. The cattle herd feeling was real here, to me.

 

The good (and there was a lot!)

1. Food was quite good, with JiJi's being the standout. I don't mind the nominal charge. Carnival is gonna do what it does best, make money. I just want a decent dinner, so I'll play along and pay up. It is what it is.

2. Service/crew were outstanding. Part of this was luck of the draw (we've had the unlucky hand in the past with stewards or MDR) and part of it was we were there two weeks and got to know some of them a bit better. We were treated really well!

3. Clean and well maintained.

4. Some unique, fun and/or relaxing areas to hang out such as the little uncrowded area off of Ocean Plaza or the aft pool area (that USUALLY wasn't too crowded..a good happy medium between crazy Lido and super chill Serenity..and they played good music back there).

 

Things I didn't care for much:

1. The LINES. Holy cow. Worst breakfast lines on the Lido I've ever seen, for pretty much the whole time they were serving. Luckily the MDR was great for breakfast every morning. The new breakfast menu on port days was pretty good, though I generally can't resist my usual eggs benedict and branch out much.

2. The decor. I know some prefer it, but for ME..well, I've seen more elegant office buildings. It feels very generic and cheap.

3. The atrium. My initial reaction when boarding the ship was not WOW! but Wow..that's IT? I was shocked at how much smaller it is than it looks in the photos. I get the reason, but honestly, there were the lines again. We finally managed to score a seat in the Thrill Theater on the very last day. Not worth it, IMO.

4. It's almost ..ALMOST not noticeable, but the cabins are smaller. The new closet setup sucks, and the bathroom shelves are smaller.

5. ANY entertainment you want to do will require you to arrive VERY early, whether it's the comedy club (plan an hour early), the piano bar, the sky ride (hour long line)..any of it.

6. Not Carnival's fault, but cruising out of Miami. The overall vibe of the crowd was less than friendly at times and we dealt with far more rude people than we have from other ports. Vista may indeed improve overall when it moves to Galveston.

 

 

I came away feeling like we had a good cruise. The B2B experience was amazing! Our ports overall were great. I did not feel like I'd entirely gotten my money's worth because I missed a lot due to not having the patience to stand in line for an hour. I think we would have been happier on a smaller ship, even a slightly smaller Dream class. At the end of the day, it's a bigger, newer ship, but it's Carnival's most generic cruise experience and does not live up to the hype. I would highly recommend a smaller ship. And again, a reminder..this is MY OPINION. I realize others will disagree.

 

 

 

Interesting points, just want to correct you on something. The cabins are the same size as other Carnival ships...example balcony is 185 sq ft. LOL, I have never measured (or noticed) the shelve size in the bathroom, but I doubt that has affects cabin size. Lastly, speaking of hype, what would you expect based on double occupancy over say the Breeze (referencing your cramming comment)?

 

 

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[Dr.H]

Jimbo is hardly unbiased; looks like he owns stock in Carnival.

 

Hey Jim, not everyone experiences things the same way as you. Is that okay? Can you forgive us.

 

 

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[TomCruise48]

Interesting points, just want to correct you on something. The cabins are the same size as other Carnival ships...example balcony is 185 sq ft. LOL, I have never measured (or noticed) the shelve size in the bathroom, but I doubt that has affects cabin size. Lastly, speaking of hype, what would you expect based on double occupancy over say the Breeze (referencing your cramming comment)?

 

I believe that you are correct as far as Balcony cabins are concerned. If you compare the Vista to her older sister, the Breeze, the Inside cabins on the Breeze are 185 sq. ft., while inside cabins on the Vista are 170 sq. ft. Furthermore, on the Vista inside cabins there is much less storage space. The Breeze has three closets, two of which accommodate hanging clothes, and the other with shelves that are fully useable. The Breeze also has drawers in the desk in which to place clothes and belongings.

 

On the Vista, one of the closets has disappeared, to make room for HVAC equipment. Only one of the two closets will hold hanging clothes, and the other one has shelves, one of which is taken up by the safe, as well as a couple of drawers. There are no drawers in the desk, only a couple of small shelves. We had an interior cabin for the last Med and the TA on the Vista, 23 days total, and it wasn't easy storing away clothing, but we managed.

 

There are a lot of good things on the Vista, and other than the horrible Liquid Lounge, she's a nice ship.

[jimbo5544]

Jimbo is hardly unbiased; looks like he owns stock in Carnival.

 

Hey Jim, not everyone experiences things the same way as you. Is that okay? Can you forgive us.

 

 

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Did I infer someone else’s take on the Vista is bad? I simply wanted to correct the point about the cabin size, his thoughts are interesting just as I said, and I am sure Carnival will likely want to hear them. Interestingly, his point on closet space is the first thing I noticed on our first sailing on the Vista. At the Diamond event I had the opportunity to question the chief engineer on this topic. His reply surprised me. On previous ships there were 3 doors (when entering the room) which were all closets. On the Vista (and soon to be Horizon) the 2nd and 3rd door are still closets but where the 1st was that space is now an a/c unit (each cabin has one which hopefully gives better cooling. If that is what the poster was referring to, then he was right on.

 

My last comment was that there are some here who imply Carnival is cramming tons of extra people into the Vista and pulling out space that could’ve been enjoyed. My question was trying to determine how many people the poster believes that to be......

 

Have we gotten to the point where we can’t discuss things here? Oh, there is no forgiveness needed.

 

 

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[jimbo5544]

I believe that you are correct as far as Balcony cabins are concerned. If you compare the Vista to her older sister, the Breeze, the Inside cabins on the Breeze are 185 sq. ft., while inside cabins on the Vista are 170 sq. ft. Furthermore, on the Vista inside cabins there is much less storage space. The Breeze has three closets, two of which accommodate hanging clothes, and the other with shelves that are fully useable. The Breeze also has drawers in the desk in which to place clothes and belongings.

 

 

 

On the Vista, one of the closets has disappeared, to make room for HVAC equipment. Only one of the two closets will hold hanging clothes, and the other one has shelves, one of which is taken up by the safe, as well as a couple of drawers. There are no drawers in the desk, only a couple of small shelves. We had an interior cabin for the last Med and the TA on the Vista, 23 days total, and it wasn't easy storing away clothing, but we managed.

 

 

 

There are a lot of good things on the Vista, and other than the horrible Liquid Lounge, she's a nice ship.

 

 

 

Oops sorry, I did not see your reply. I can not argue with your assessment of the liquid lounge. The site lines others direct on suck.

 

 

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[BenjiRodney]

The only one thing I did not like on the Vista was Liquid Lounge, and I did miss the full atrium experience with glass elevators. Loved having an Aft Havana Extended Balcony. We did book Vista for a second time in the same room location for 2019. Just wish I didn’t have to get in line 30-45 minutes prior to get an good seat for the shows.

 

 

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[winddawn]

I know many people that this does not bother at all, but for me, less people equals a much more relaxing week.

 

This^