Cutbacks and nickel and diming

[lavic8]

I don't think the prices for the specialty dining are unreasonable and there are plenty of free options for dining and entertainment on board to keep you busy without spending a dime. where else can u go to a steakhouse for under a 75$ per person.

Edited May 9, 2018 by lavic8

[meatloafsfan]

Since you brought up "cutbacks", here's something I've thought about. I know I'm not in the minority when I say that the Playlist Productions are basically crap. Obviously, Carnival is doing what they can (whether we like it or not) to keep cruise fares affordable for the average family. However, I would not be too upset if Carnival raised their prices a few dollars per person in order to afford a live band and some better entertainment in the theater. I don't care about not having chocolates on my pillow. They weren't that good any way. I don't care one way or the other about having or not having tablecloths in the MDR. But I do miss having a live band and good entertainment in the theater.

 

I would. Unless you're willing to pay for my stuff as well (bring back the variety of tea bags, bring back all day free room service), then why should I pay a few dollars for what you want upgraded?

 

I found that there was sufficient quantity of live music on our cruises (casino bar, atrium, red frog pub, Alchemy bar, lido deck) that I don't care if there is a live band in the main theatre.

[Sizzlechest]

I don't think the prices for the specialty dining are unreasonable and there are plenty of free options for dining and entertainment on board to keep you busy without spending a dime. where else can u go to a steakhouse for under a 75$ per person.

 

Are you suggesting the steaks there are the same as you would get for $75 at a high end steakhouse? I doubt they're even prime.

[salty dingo]

They don't make it off the people that don't drink.

It's only a matter of time before they impose a surcharge for AA members. ;)

[salty dingo]

While not a cutback, the biggest travesty being foisted on cruisers is the auto tips. Back in the days of the envelopes, you tipped the usual service staff that you directly interacted with during the cruise. With the advent of the auto tips they keep adding more and more of the staff into the tip pool while tips keep inching up every year, shifting the burden of payroll onto the passenger and away from the cruiseline.

I know it's off topic but the auto tip is actually a good thing because the demographics the cruise lines are targeting don't carry a lot of cash, and probably don't make any cash they do have last long enough to stuff it in an envelope. Either pay it up front or pay it with the next credit card bill.

 

Also, there was a notorious type of passenger who was absent from the MDR on the last night, and never handed over the cash. With anytime dining, getting different servers each night, it's no longer feasible to tip in cash anyway. That cash tip ship has sailed and I don't miss it.

[cmichael1279]

Carnival's so-called "nickle and diming" is perfect for me and the and different groups of people I cruise with. In the past year I went with my girlfriend, college friends and my seven year-old niece.

 

With the girlfriend, we take advantage of things like the Chef's Table, the spa, the art auctions, bingo, relaxing at the pool and grabbing some of the $3.33 appetizers in Red Frog Pub...

 

With the college friends, we do the steakhouse, spend a lot of time in the casino, hit the comedy club and night club, take full advantage of Cheers and spend very little time at the pool...

 

With the niece, we eat in the MDR every night, check out a couple of the shows, spend money at the arcade, Cherry On Top and gelato at the coffee bar...

 

None of us care about chocolate on the pillow or tablecloths on non-elegant nights, none of us have never had a problem getting ice in the cabin, we're all content not having network TV stations to keep the vacation costs down and we're perfectly fine with the cleanliness of our cabins, even once a day - we're all capable of picking up after ourselves. We don't mind paying extra for room service late at night, it's faster and there are more options.

 

So perfect business model for Carnival - I took three entirely different vacations with them, with three entirely different groups of people and we all had a great time.

 

And if you're questioning the Cheers cost - spend some time living in LA and Chicago - you'll quickly find it to be a bargain!

[A&Jfamily]

While not a cutback, the biggest travesty being foisted on cruisers is the auto tips. Back in the days of the envelopes, you tipped the usual service staff that you directly interacted with during the cruise. With the advent of the auto tips they keep adding more and more of the staff into the tip pool while tips keep inching up every year, shifting the burden of payroll onto the passenger and away from the cruiseline.

 

 

The problem with that is that there are plenty of people that work on the lido deck, for example, that would never see tips.

 

I see zero issue with auto tipping - however, because there are people that remove them, I would rather see it added into the fare.

[Thorncroft]

I know it's off topic but the auto tip is actually a good thing because the demographics the cruise lines are targeting don't carry a lot of cash, and probably don't make any cash they do have last long enough to stuff it in an envelope. Either pay it up front or pay it with the next credit card bill.

 

Also, there was a notorious type of passenger who was absent from the MDR on the last night, and never handed over the cash. With anytime dining, getting different servers each night, it's no longer feasible to tip in cash anyway. That cash tip ship has sailed and I don't miss it.

 

My point was that as they add more and more behind the scenes people to the tip pool and the daily grats inch up each year, the cruise lines are shifting the burden of payroll off of themselves and on to the passengers. We are making their payroll for them and they're not even our employees.

[cmichael1279]

The problem with that is that there are plenty of people that work on the lido deck, for example, that would never see tips.

 

I see zero issue with auto tipping - however, because there are people that remove them, I would rather see it added into the fare.

 

I like the idea of a different color of sail & sign card for people who refuse to tip! :D

[salty dingo]

I like the idea of a different color of sail & sign card for people who refuse to tip! :D

I definitely leave the auto-tip alone. Never think of tipping less. If someone goes above and beyond the call of duty, I'll tip more but never tip extra for what I consider typical service.

 

I would love it if more stuff were included up front (more of the stuff I want, anyway) but the trend does seem to be "pay as you go".

 

Would also be nice if different ships had different rules for what is included and what is extra. For example, two similar ships sail out of Miami on the same itinerary, same number of days. One has a base fare of $1,000 per person, includes unlimited drinks and alcohol, and no extra cost specialty restaurants because the MDR is all world class fare. Another has a base fare of $700 per person and is exactly what you get today. I'd pick the more expensive ship, for sure, but there would be plenty of people looking for the cheapest possible cruise... and I would not have to sail with them!

[Schoifmom]

I definitely leave the auto-tip alone. Never think of tipping less. If someone goes above and beyond the call of duty, I'll tip more but never tip extra for what I consider typical service.

 

I would love it if more stuff were included up front (more of the stuff I want, anyway) but the trend does seem to be "pay as you go".

 

Would also be nice if different ships had different rules for what is included and what is extra. For example, two similar ships sail out of Miami on the same itinerary, same number of days. One has a base fare of $1,000 per person, includes unlimited drinks and alcohol, and no extra cost specialty restaurants because the MDR is all world class fare. Another has a base fare of $700 per person and is exactly what you get today. I'd pick the more expensive ship, for sure, but there would be plenty of people looking for the cheapest possible cruise... and I would not have to sail with them!

 

I don't know if it is about the "cheapest" cruise, but the one that represents the best value for the person going. If you would be purchasing Cheers and eating in specialty dining restaurants, then the $1000 cruise represents the best value for you. I, personally, wouldn't be, so the $700 cruise represents the best value for me. And, I wouldn't have to sail with you.

[Jdfireman]

So many Cutbacks since my first Cruise But do we weigh them with some of the new additions.

 

Food For thought

 

Who cares I cruise for the fun of being away not a mint on my pillow

[Organized Chaos]

Yes, and the market will (I predict) reward the cruise lines who get more right about what the market wants.

Considering Carnival repeatedly sells out a huge fleet, or comes close to it, I'd say the market has spoken and it's saying Carnival, for the most part, has gotten more right about what the market wants.

 

Some people drive, some fly commercial, and some hire private jets. It makes no difference to me what someone else spends their money on as long as it does not affect me (e.g. all those people driving and all those private jets don't delay my commercial flight.)

Not sure how people driving to a cruise can delay your flight. :confused: Did they make a wrong turn and end up on the runway?

 

FTTF - in order for some to pay extra to get onboard, others have to get on later. So now we have the "assigned check in time" ... this is just fallout from the new money grab.

Staggered check-ins were introduced to make the overall check-in process more efficient. It's not about selling more FTTF. Those who buy FTTF do not delay general boarding by that much, so they have nothing to do with someone having to choose a much later check-in time. It simply spreads out the crowd.

 

Ice - simple thing you take for granted at home, and is self service on ever floor of a hotel. On a cruise, it's difficult to get ice. You have to special request it from the steward during the rare time he is available, or schlep it from the lido. Not convenient. Why??? so people will just go to a bar instead of having a drink in the cabin.

The hotels we stay in usually only have one ice machine nowadays. I guess if we could afford something more luxurious, we'd get one on every floor, but we don't, so we deal with it. The cabin mini-fridges don't have freezers so keeping ice in the cabins isn't easy. People go to the bar because not many have a large supply of alcohol in their cabins, whether it be the allowed wine or bought on board. In addition, they go to the bar because they enjoy the social aspect. It's not because they don't have easy access to ice. If ice were easy to come by on every deck, do you really think all of those people would then spend all of their time drinking in their cabins? Besides, many say they've had no problems with getting their steward to keep their ice bucket fresh all day, every day.

 

Alcohol - biggest money pit ever. NCL is going to eat Carnival's lunch with this one. Of course, not everyone is a big drinker ... the Red Frog self pour kiosks are a step in the right direction, but why is there not a "Beer-only package?" I guarantee you is is not because of "the market"... market would love it but Carnival would rather sell you liquor at $60 a day than beer for less. Why? Because they can make more money... and if people willingly buy the only package, why would they offer a less expensive one? Solution - don't buy the package.

Cheers isn't for us, but it sells and it sells big. If it didn't, Carnival wouldn't offer it. Why would they offer a cheaper one when Carnival's market is willing to continuously pay for Cheers? So while the market may like a beer-only package, it's shown it's more than willing to pay for Cheers. I'm not saying more alcohol package options isn't a good idea, but people buy Cheers, so Carnival doesn't bother.

 

Advertisements - they are all over the Fun Times, all over the PA during the day. Most folks can tune it out but it is always there... "hey! here's a great thing to do... it only costs $$$. Try it!"

Do you mean to tell me that a for-profit company is advertising their available products/services in order to boost sales? If you owned a business, wouldn't you advertise?

 

The only ones who really hit me up to spend more were the photographers. A simple, "No thank you," and they didn't say another word. Although, walking down Impressionist Boulevard aboard Conquest a couple years ago was often like running the gauntlet. "No thank you." "No thank you." "No thank you." :D But many of them would remember when I walked back by and didn't even bother asking.

[Organized Chaos]

I have a different view. People are the same everywhere, and if the employer paid 100% of their compensation service providers will slack off. Tips exist for these positions to encourage better service. In the distant past tipping was considered an obligation honorable people paid to service workers. Few people stiffed the bar tender.

To encourage better performance by unseen staff they are now included in the tip pool. Auto tips are a way to assure people who do not know how much to tip what is a reasonable amount.

 

Passengers that are offended by a lack of service are free to reduce or even eliminate auto tips, but most right thinking people would not take money from the thin pockets of people who serve them.

We shouldn't have to tip more to ensure good service. Good service should be provided because that's the job of the service industry. Tips are a reward...the better the service, the better the tip, but I expect good service to start.

 

As more and more service workers are added to a pool that customers do not interact with directly, more people these days now say, "You should always tip well, even if the server provides bad service, because there are others who share the tips." I think that's an absolute crock. I'm not going to tip well for bad service, period. The rest of the service workers in that pool need to address it themselves. If a server provides bad service, and affects the tips of those down the line, they need to take it up with that server and/or their management. Customers shouldn't have to compensate.

 

As far as your "right thinking people" comment goes, too many people here try to shame those who don't tip as much as they do. I'm not talking about ones who pull their entire prepaid gratuities, that's a different matter. But if I choose to tip less than you because I felt I received sub-par service, it's not your place to tell me I'm wrong.

A majority of cruise ship crew members make much more working for cruise lines than they ever could in their home countries. That's not to say they don't bust their butts, because they do. And they make sacrifices by being away from home for so long. But their "thin pockets," as you call it, are much more full by working on that ship.

[Organized Chaos]

At like 8-9 beers you break even on cheers if you're not drinking that then I wouldn't get it. I don't know what you want carnival to do on that one. If they offered a beer package they 'might' bring down the price $10 a day but otherwise they're gonna lose money on it. They're never gonna offer a cheap package where they lose money just so you can drink your beer. If you don't drink 8+ then dont buy the package so if you want to drink 5 beers, just buy 5 beers.

I think a lot of people calculate their break even point and believe they're getting one over on Carnival. Not so much. Thanks to the heavy mark-up, Carnival still profits, even when people drink enough in relation to their cost of Cheers. Drinking 8-9 beers in one day might be the break even point for a passenger, but it's still profit to Carnival.

[A&Jfamily]

My point was that as they add more and more behind the scenes people to the tip pool and the daily grats inch up each year, the cruise lines are shifting the burden of payroll off of themselves and on to the passengers. We are making their payroll for them and they're not even our employees.

 

It's a business - you are making their payroll for them either way. They know the cost of cruising and if they have to pay their employees more, they are going to simply pass it along in the base fare charges. You kid yourself if you think it is otherwise.

[mz-s]

Carnival Cruise Lines fills a need for the price-conscious consumer. The family who only has $X to spend and wants to have a fun vacation.

 

Carnival Corporation has brands for less price-conscious consumers. Most of their other brands still offer tablecloths every night, an enforced elegant night dress code, chocolates on the pillow, Broadway-caliber shows, etc.

 

CCL is the brand for folks who would otherwise drive to Myrtle Beach or whatever for the week.

 

At least, that's how I see things.

[bingomamma19]

Someone suggested a new thread to discuss this topic. This is the Carnival board but it's fair to compare other cruise lines to Carnival.

 

Personally, I have no problem with the nickel-and-dime approach, as long as the cost of the vacation when I get back home is where I planned for it to be. If everything is priced fairly and disclosed up front, then I can decide before I go whether or not it is a value for me.

 

Example - specialty restaurants. We do splurge once in a while at home and go to a nice restaurant for dinner. Think anniversary or birthdays, not regularly. Some folks may do this every week or at least once a month. Those folks probably would go frequently to a nice dinner on a cruise, which we may only go once.

 

So, the quality of the MDR food is of utmost importance, since we won't be eating in specialty restaurants much. Also, a ship with 15 specialty restaurants is pretty useless to us, since we would not be eating in most of them. May make for a quieter meal in the MDR though.

 

So, no problem with fees for dining in specialty restaurants here. However, if Carnival loses quality of the MDR food, we would no longer have much value sailing with them, and would look elsewhere for our next cruise.

 

I prefer a "bare bones" cruise. I don't drink, don't need specialty restaurants, don't need big time shows etc.

 

I enjoy cruising for the simplicity of it all. Sitting on my balcony watching the water, eating anything I want (never at a loss for good food for me), walking around, checking out the trivia, dancing etc. Love the deck parties and the group dances. Love checking out the fun times for different things to do.

 

On the islands, I can choose to do something free or take an excursion--depending on how easy that island is to get around.

 

Love the 24 hr ice cream and pizza. Love the dive in movies.

 

I really have nothing I can think of that I could complain about.

 

Cruising is definitely for me!!!

[salty dingo]

I don't know if it is about the "cheapest" cruise, but the one that represents the best value for the person going. If you would be purchasing Cheers and eating in specialty dining restaurants, then the $1000 cruise represents the best value for you. I, personally, wouldn't be, so the $700 cruise represents the best value for me. And, I wouldn't have to sail with you.

Exactly my point!!! When will Carnival get the message?

[Schoifmom]

Exactly my point!!! When will Carnival get the message?

 

Not sure what message you want them to get. I find Carnival to be the best value for me, because I don't want those things, thus I don't have to pay for them. In your example, the $1000 cruise would not be a good value for me. If you don't find Carnival to be the best value for you, then there are plenty of other lines that will meet your needs.

[salty dingo]

It's a business - you are making their payroll for them either way. They know the cost of cruising and if they have to pay their employees more, they are going to simply pass it along in the base fare charges. You kid yourself if you think it is otherwise.

I sure wish they would do away with tips altogether and add it to the base fare. The weasels who remove tips would be taking a financial hit, and the rest of us could still pass some cash if we were so inclined.

[StolidCruiser]

I definitely leave the auto-tip alone. Never think of tipping less. If someone goes above and beyond the call of duty, I'll tip more but never tip extra for what I consider typical service.

 

I would love it if more stuff were included up front (more of the stuff I want, anyway) but the trend does seem to be "pay as you go".

 

Would also be nice if different ships had different rules for what is included and what is extra. For example, two similar ships sail out of Miami on the same itinerary, same number of days. One has a base fare of $1,000 per person, includes unlimited drinks and alcohol, and no extra cost specialty restaurants because the MDR is all world class fare. Another has a base fare of $700 per person and is exactly what you get today. I'd pick the more expensive ship, for sure, but there would be plenty of people looking for the cheapest possible cruise... and I would not have to sail with them!

 

You are expecting quite a lot for $300. Your price delta needs another zero on the end of it.

 

Since you never answered my question from Post #30, I'll ask it again.

 

What other cruise line would you look to should you find Carnival’s MDR less than expected?

 

It would seem that you are wanting the luxuries that come with the premium cruise lines that have renowned cuisine, excellent service and an all-inclusiveness that mass-market lines don't offer.

 

Instead of trying to turn Carnival into your dream cruise line, you should investigate those that already exist that have what you want.

 

However, I know why you won't (and can't). It has to do with the figures you're tossing around.

 

It must be terribly frustrating to sail amongst those who have the same budget as you (or who simply choose to cruise with Carnival because they enjoy it).

[StolidCruiser]

I don't know if it is about the "cheapest" cruise, but the one that represents the best value for the person going. If you would be purchasing Cheers and eating in specialty dining restaurants, then the $1000 cruise represents the best value for you. I, personally, wouldn't be, so the $700 cruise represents the best value for me. And, I wouldn't have to sail with you.

 

Exactly my point!!! When will Carnival get the message?

 

Probably around the same time you get Mom's message.

[Organized Chaos]

Would also be nice if different ships had different rules for what is included and what is extra. For example, two similar ships sail out of Miami on the same itinerary, same number of days. One has a base fare of $1,000 per person, includes unlimited drinks and alcohol, and no extra cost specialty restaurants because the MDR is all world class fare. Another has a base fare of $700 per person and is exactly what you get today. I'd pick the more expensive ship, for sure, but there would be plenty of people looking for the cheapest possible cruise... and I would not have to sail with them!

You imply that, just because someone is looking for a cheap cruise, they must be bad people who are going to do something to hurt your cruise experience. Someone's vacation budget doesn't dictate their character as a person. With an attitude like that, I can assure you that there's plenty of people who wouldn't want to sail with you either, regardless of what they pay.

[Lottacruises]

Carnival doesn't include tips in the base price to attract cruisers to the lower price. Does carnival care if you remove the tips? Supposedly it is passed on to workers, right? So why would they care?