Dress code tee shirts

[cruisin4Becky]

1 hour ago, HerbertandB said:

 

I'm going to guess at why they don't want people wearing t-shirts may have to do with what is on the t-shirt.  There may be "offensive" pictures or words/slogans on said shirts.  Instead of just saying "no T-shirts with inappropriate slogans or writing", they chose to say no t-shirts all together.

I suspect you are right. I can easily see people deliberately pushing the envelope by wearing one with a slogan that is meant to provoke others just to start something. I would be happy to not wear any shirt with inappropriate slogans or images.

 

[Doggielover68]

12 hours ago, ecarbine said:

If people want to get all dressed up and pretend that they are eating in an elegant, fine dining establishment, then perhaps they could use their extraordinary imaginations to pretend I am dressed in a manner that fits their fantasy!

Me, I am going to pretend I am at Hooters!

The possibility of the MDR being a fine dining establishment is thrown out the window the second the waiters get up onto the tables (/whatever those circular tray stand things are called) and dance to pop music lol.

 

It reminds me of the time when my husband and I were still young and dating. It was our 6 month anniversary and we got all dressed up to eat at a restaurant that was basically the equivalent of Olive Garden. Won't make that mistake again!

[3smithboys]

I’ve read along with this entire thread, and I need to ask a clarifying question... Do you think there is a difference between a t-shirt (just a shirt without a collar) and a graphic t-shirt (one with some sort of printed message or picture on it?) 

 

My boys have nice shirts without a collar- they aren’t graphic tees, just shirts, but I guess because there is no collar would be considered a tee-shirt. They were going to wear them with nice shorts on casual nights. They also have some polo shirts too for casual wear. They are going to wear long pants, shirts, and ties for formal night and when we go to the Steakhouse. 

[brandi0727]

If this doesn't prove that Carnival doesn't have rules on the dress code,  I don't know what does?? Mr. Heald just went against everything the "rules" stipulate and t-shirts are not an issue. Provided from the Facebook page this morning. 

[sanmarcosman]

5 minutes ago, brandi0727 said:

If this doesn't prove that Carnival doesn't have rules on the dress code,  I don't know what does?? Mr. Heald just went against everything the "rules" stipulate and t-shirts are not an issue. Provided from the Facebook page this morning. 

So lame per usual. Asking " have you seen people wear t shirts " and him saying " many, many people wear T-shirts " is a non-poll poll. Ergo the discussion rolls on and on. The only rule on Carnival anymore is you must wear clothes in the MDR ( including a chartered clothing optional cruise apparently per the other hot topic thread.)

[T&R Thirty]

This thread has been so entertaining to follow.🙂

 

I wonder if the strict rule followers here that are chastising those that choose to wear a t-shirt to the MDR on casual nights, ever exceed the posted speed limit while driving? After all, a rule is a rule right?

 

Enjoy your meal and don't let what others wear ruin your vacation!

[brandi0727]

1 minute ago, sanmarcosman said:

So lame per usual. Asking " have you seen people wear t shirts " and him saying " many, many people wear T-shirts " is a non-poll poll. Ergo the discussion rolls on and on. The only rule on Carnival anymore is you must wear clothes in the MDR ( including a chartered clothing optional cruise apparently per the other hot topic thread.)

Consistency is key.  You want rules you enforce them.  Vagueness in his response only further proves the point that these aren't rules. If they were rules he would have certainly expressed the rule, but that didn't happen. He gave a guideline once again,  "provided they are not the Tony Soprano type sleeveless vests" further implying dress code rules don't exist and are merely suggestions.

[sanmarcosman]

8 minutes ago, brandi0727 said:

Consistency is key.  You want rules you enforce them.  Vagueness in his response only further proves the point that these aren't rules. If they were rules he would have certainly expressed the rule, but that didn't happen. He gave a guideline once again,  "provided they are not the Tony Soprano type sleeveless vests" further implying dress code rules don't exist and are merely suggestions.

You just seconded my motion.

[coevan]

13 hours ago, ecarbine said:

pretend that they are eating in an elegant, fine dining establishment,

 

 

not the point, it's rule, not for you to judge

[brandi0727]

14 minutes ago, sanmarcosman said:

You just seconded my motion.

I've actually been stressing this through this entire post. I merely wrote your response in layman's terms so they aren't misconstrued. It's blatantly obvious to some, others not so much.

[pacruise804]

16 hours ago, dogchopper said:

Hey, I'm half of that couple!! And yes we dress nice on the 2nd formal night. We just like to have fun on the carnival 'Fun Ships'

 

The two of you look great and I feel you honor the requested dress code while still having fun.  If others are offended by your outfits then it just shows how even following guidelines you can upset people if it doesn't match their interpretation.

 

 

12 hours ago, brandi0727 said:

That's funny! If anything has any sort of danger,  it would NEVER reflect a "please."  It would be absolute. If anything wants to be taken serious, it will reflect that in its rules. You can be "right" all you want, whatever floats your boat.  But it won't change the facts.  If a rule is not set, followed, enforced, and it is not given a consequence for not following, we can conclude it is not a rule. My examples were certainly in line and on point. You said, "no means no, right?" and I disagree. Context is key. Just because you perceive it differently does not change anything.  If Carnival legitimately had rules and enforced rules, then this would all be a moot point,  right? Everyone would be dressed to their enforced rules.  But that is not the case. No matter how you want to spin your reply,  it will not change for the mere fact that,  they don't enforce their own suggestions, recommendations,  or rules as some like to call it. When rules are enforced they don't have deviation. It's their way or the highway. When recommendations and suggestions present,  they are just that,  a guideline and they are not enforced and thus passengers wear whatever they brought with them. When I book a reservation at a restaurant that has a strict dress code policy, they mean what they say.  We would not be permitted to dine there if we showed up in anything other than what they allow.  Just because we want something to be true doesn't make it so. Carnival is in charge of all of this,  they set the precedence, and obviously they aren't caring too much,  are they? This would not even be a hot topic if they actually had rules, right? Who could go against what is enforced? Either way,  no skin off my back.  You do you!

 

So if someone says "please don't touch me" or even a more neutral "please stay off the grass" because it was a request and not a "rule" that we can all ignore requests if we feel like it?

Speed limits are rules.  Age limits for drinking are a rule.  Many drugs have rules associated with them.  They are even sometimes enforced.  There are also lots of deviation from the rules - does that mean laws don't mean anything since they are not 100% enforced?

 

54 minutes ago, 3smithboys said:

I’ve read along with this entire thread, and I need to ask a clarifying question... Do you think there is a difference between a t-shirt (just a shirt without a collar) and a graphic t-shirt (one with some sort of printed message or picture on it?) 

 

My boys have nice shirts without a collar- they aren’t graphic tees, just shirts, but I guess because there is no collar would be considered a tee-shirt. They were going to wear them with nice shorts on casual nights. They also have some polo shirts too for casual wear. They are going to wear long pants, shirts, and ties for formal night and when we go to the Steakhouse. 

I think I know the type of shirt you mean and some will feel there is a difference while others won't.  I personally think they are not t-shirts and would be acceptable (and you will likely be seated regardless).  If you are concerned they could wear the same polo shirt 2 or 3 nights and then have collared shirts at all meals.  That you care to ask and clarify leads me to think they will be fine and are not dressed at the level people complain about.

 

I view the MDR similar to a banquet venue with banquet level food.  As such we wear along the lines of what we would wear as guests at a wedding or similar function.

 

Hope that helps.

[brandi0727]

50 minutes ago, pacruise804 said:

So if someone says "please don't touch me" or even a more neutral "please stay off the grass" because it was a request and not a "rule" that we can all ignore requests if we feel like it?

Speed limits are rules.  Age limits for drinking are a rule.  Many drugs have rules associated with them.  They are even sometimes enforced.  There are also lots of deviation from the rules - does that mean laws don't mean anything since they are not 100% enforced?

I can't help you comprehend what a policy, a rule, and a law is and their differences. When a corporation, business, or  private practice implement rules they come from written policies. Some of these policies are federally and state regulated to enforce legal business tactics and some are rules of the company to prevent lawsuits, discrimination, and non-conformity.

 

 Let me put it this way. I am a doctor in marriage and family counseling and medical therapy.  I employ several MFT's in my practice. I have policies in place that each client and therapist must adhere to. The policies implement rules to ensure all are treated fairly and respectfully. I am obligated to abide by all federal and state regulations to prevent any form of discrimination or unsafe practices. I have a multitude of people I'm responsible for.  If I allowed my therapists, my office manager, or the patients to deviate from my rules, the integrity of my policies, implementation of the rules, and my practice would be compromised, in addition to the lives of those involved.

 

The rules are clearly and formally stated. If anyone deviates from said rules,  there will be action taken and the consequences of those actions will be rendered by the person found at fault. Therefore,  there is no deviating from the rules, ever. They are strictly enforced. If I allow one therapist to do one thing, but not another,  am I truly implementing rules? At that point it could be considered discrimination, because I'm picking and choosing who I let get away with what. Do I allow one patient to yell, scream and become violent, and the others get reassigned to another facility if they do the same? Absolutely not.

 

It's a slippery slope when rules are not consistent,  clearly stipulated,  and fully enforced. 

 

Any cruise line that offers policies yet doesn't adhere to them except when it's convenient is completely out of line. Thus the reason the dress code would be a guideline over a rule. Their policy and rules do not align with what takes place on the ships. I would not be surprised if someone filed a grievance and took a picture of another diner dressed similar who was permitted to dine and screamed discrimination, and rightfully so.  If you accept one you have to accept them all.

 

Many say rules are meant to be broken, and there is truth in that. Discrimination being at the forefront of that statement. Thank God Rosa Parks broke the rules.  There are policies that implement the rules that are formally stipulated and strictly enforced. They don't allow a gray area.

If my policies or rules were the same as the cruiselines, I would no longer have a practice.

 

You have to know the context before you can render it absolute.  "No" certainly means "no" in the context of touching another person or infringing on their personal rights or space. But a corporation is held to a much higher standard. No matter what we feel, it doesn't supersede what is right and just. Don't fall prey to normative social influence. 

Edited July 16, 2019 by brandi0727

[thenexus2k]

I'll piggyback this topic a little bit, as I am looking for opinions from fellow cruisers. I understand the letter of the law about no T-shirts, however what about a nice shirt like this:

 

 

I understand where printed Tshirts are a no-no, and to be honest I own like MAYBE 1 total printed Tshirt (even being a big sports nut), but I have a lot of pocketed shirts like the one pictured that I like wearing in my down time. Would anyone bat an eye if I showed up to casual dinner wearing one? Again, I know the letter of the law, just looking for honest personal opinions here. 

[brandi0727]

1 hour ago, fyree39 said:

And this is one of the several reason why I'd just as soon not cruise Carnival anymore.  It's not the line,  it's *some* of the passengers with really bad manners and attitudes, yours included.

It's unfortunate you let what others do or say dictate what you do in your life. The diversity in this world will always involve people we don't agree with or get along with.  They are everywhere.  But if you focus on your own journey and the things that bring you happiness, and help you appreciate life,  you will no longer care what others do on their journeys. It's a win-win for all. 

[BNBR]

1 hour ago, fyree39 said:

And this is one of the several reason why I'd just as soon not cruise Carnival anymore.  It's not the line,  it's *some* of the passengers with really bad manners and attitudes, yours included.

 

It's a good thing we don't really sail Carnival anymore either.  So I guess I'll see you on a different line!

[MJSailors]

To dogchopper-

I can only see the photo of you both in the red,white and blue outfits. Was the photo of another outfit eliminated here as I thought I read a reference to another outfit?

The question that I have,respectfully,is where do you buy such an outfit?

Are they custom- made?

Just curious.

 

[HerbertandB]

4 hours ago, thenexus2k said:

I'll piggyback this topic a little bit, as I am looking for opinions from fellow cruisers. I understand the letter of the law about no T-shirts, however what about a nice shirt like this:

 

 

I understand where printed Tshirts are a no-no, and to be honest I own like MAYBE 1 total printed Tshirt (even being a big sports nut), but I have a lot of pocketed shirts like the one pictured that I like wearing in my down time. Would anyone bat an eye if I showed up to casual dinner wearing one? Again, I know the letter of the law, just looking for honest personal opinions here. 

 

Since it has buttons it's a henley not a T-shirt so I say it's fine to wear.

 

Per Wiki "A Henley shirt is a collarless pullover shirt, characterized by a placket below the round neckline, about 3 to 5 inches (8 to 13 cm) long and usually having 2–5 buttons. It essentially resembles a collarless polo shirt...." 

Edited July 16, 2019 by HerbertandB

[Organized Chaos]

17 hours ago, brandi0727 said:

That's funny! If anything has any sort of danger,  it would NEVER reflect a "please."  It would be absolute. If anything wants to be taken serious, it will reflect that in its rules. You can be "right" all you want, whatever floats your boat.  But it won't change the facts.  If a rule is not set, followed, enforced, and it is not given a consequence for not following, we can conclude it is not a rule. My examples were certainly in line and on point. You said, "no means no, right?" and I disagree. Context is key. Just because you perceive it differently does not change anything.  If Carnival legitimately had rules and enforced rules, then this would all be a moot point,  right? Everyone would be dressed to their enforced rules.  But that is not the case. No matter how you want to spin your reply,  it will not change for the mere fact that,  they don't enforce their own suggestions, recommendations,  or rules as some like to call it. When rules are enforced they don't have deviation. It's their way or the highway. When recommendations and suggestions present,  they are just that,  a guideline and they are not enforced and thus passengers wear whatever they brought with them. When I book a reservation at a restaurant that has a strict dress code policy, they mean what they say.  We would not be permitted to dine there if we showed up in anything other than what they allow.  Just because we want something to be true doesn't make it so. Carnival is in charge of all of this,  they set the precedence, and obviously they aren't caring too much,  are they? This would not even be a hot topic if they actually had rules, right? Who could go against what is enforced? Either way,  no skin off my back.  You do you!

 

My scenario of the no smoking sign was merely an analogy that was much more in line with the wording of their T-shirt rule than the examples you used. The fact that you took it as a literal comparison between T-shirts and a dangerous scenario is a complete misrepresentation of my point. A straw-man, if you will.

 

What floats my boat is that saying "T-shirts not permitted" is the same as "Please no T-shirts." In this case (context), no does means no. You're arguing that the word "please" alters it into a guideline or merely a suggestion. Wrong. It's just a polite way of saying NO. You seem to be the one who's perceiving it differently. There's no spin here, it is what it is.

 

In the screen capture you posted, they even use the "Please" wording under the Cruise Elegant section. It says: "Please no shorts, t-shirts, flip-flop, bathing clothes, jeans, cut-off jeans, sportswear and baseball caps." Do you really think all of those are just guidelines or suggestions for elegant nights just because they say please at the beginning?

 

Carnival does have legitimate rules. But as many of us have seen on board their ships, some of those rules aren't always enforced, much to the disappointment of many of us. It might be a particular crew on a ship or individual crew members, but for whatever reason, the (legitimate) rules aren't always enforced. That doesn't make them non-rules. You said, "When rules are enforced, they don't have deviation." Well, here comes another one of my examples. 😉 Speed limits are rules, are they not? They're laws, but laws are basically just strict rules. And speed limits are enforced. Yet people still deviate from that rule by speeding. Cops deviate from the rule by occasionally choosing not to stop someone who's speeding. According to you, any deviation makes the rule not a rule anymore.

 

The T-shirts rule may not always be enforced. Heck, it may rarely be enforced. But it's still a rule until they say it isn't. I think HerbertandB brought up an excellent point. More than likely, the rule has to remain in place, even though they don't enforce it much, for the occasions that someone might (and probably has) worn a shirt with something very inappropriate or offensive on it. So in this case, they don't necessarily need to enforce the rule all the time, but it's still in place for when they need to enforce it some of the time. It may be casual night, but casual has its limits, too. I can't explain this any more clearly, so this back & forth is going nowhere. Follow the rules or don't follow the rules, that's your choice.

 

 

[brandi0727]

55 minutes ago, Organized Chaos said:

 

My scenario of the no smoking sign was merely an analogy that was much more in line with the wording of their T-shirt rule than the examples you used. The fact that you took it as a literal comparison between T-shirts and a dangerous scenario is a complete misrepresentation of my point. A straw-man, if you will.

 

What floats my boat is that saying "T-shirts not permitted" is the same as "Please no T-shirts." In this case (context), no does means no. You're arguing that the word "please" alters it into a guideline or merely a suggestion. Wrong. It's just a polite way of saying NO. You seem to be the one who's perceiving it differently. There's no spin here, it is what it is.

 

In the screen capture you posted, they even use the "Please" wording under the Cruise Elegant section. It says: "Please no shorts, t-shirts, flip-flop, bathing clothes, jeans, cut-off jeans, sportswear and baseball caps." Do you really think all of those are just guidelines or suggestions for elegant nights just because they say please at the beginning?

 

Carnival does have legitimate rules. But as many of us have seen on board their ships, some of those rules aren't always enforced, much to the disappointment of many of us. It might be a particular crew on a ship or individual crew members, but for whatever reason, the (legitimate) rules aren't always enforced. That doesn't make them non-rules. You said, "When rules are enforced, they don't have deviation." Well, here comes another one of my examples. 😉 Speed limits are rules, are they not? They're laws, but laws are basically just strict rules. And speed limits are enforced. Yet people still deviate from that rule by speeding. Cops deviate from the rule by occasionally choosing not to stop someone who's speeding. According to you, any deviation makes the rule not a rule anymore.

 

The T-shirts rule may not always be enforced. Heck, it may rarely be enforced. But it's still a rule until they say it isn't. I think HerbertandB brought up an excellent point. More than likely, the rule has to remain in place, even though they don't enforce it much, for the occasions that someone might (and probably has) worn a shirt with something very inappropriate or offensive on it. So in this case, they don't necessarily need to enforce the rule all the time, but it's still in place for when they need to enforce it some of the time. It may be casual night, but casual has its limits, too. I can't explain this any more clearly, so this back & forth is going nowhere. Follow the rules or don't follow the rules, that's your choice.

 

 

 

You may dissect everything I say all day long and place it in whatever context you need to try and validate your thoughts.  It won't change facts. 

You want to take bits and pieces of my posts to suit your agenda instead of understanding its use in the context we are are dealing with here.  The original post was about the MDR on cruise causal nights.  One Carnival website said, "yes",  another website said, "please no" and John Heald today on Facebook said, "it's fine" to wear a t-shirt.

 

It's about consistency and having at least the same guidelines on every Carnival website around the world and their promoters. THIS IS WHY THEIR DRESS CODE  "RULES"  ARE FLAWED, NOT FOLLOWED, AND FULL OF LOOPHOLES.

 

You do not reflect on, or digest what is actually being presented to you.  Your analogies don't have validity. You can repeat yourself over and over again, but it won't help you understand.  I will resort back to my previous comment to another poster that uses your same approach. 

 

I can't help you comprehend what a policy, a rule, and a law is and their differences. ( You can Google the differences.)

 

When a corporation, business, or private practice implement rules they come from written policies. Some of these policies are federally and state regulated to enforce legal business tactics and some are rules of the company to prevent lawsuits, discrimination, and non-conformity.

 

 Let me put it this way. I am a doctor in marriage and family counseling and medical therapy.  I employ several MFT's in my practice. I have policies in place that each client and therapist must adhere to. The policies implement rules to ensure all are treated fairly and respectfully. I am obligated to abide by all federal and state regulations to prevent any form of discrimination or unsafe practices. I have a multitude of people I'm responsible for.  If I allowed my therapists, my office manager, or the patients to deviate from my rules, the integrity of my policies, implementation of the rules, and my practice would be compromised, in addition to the lives of those involved.

 

The rules are clearly and formally stated. If anyone deviates from said rules,  there will be action taken and the consequences of those actions will be rendered by the person found at fault. Therefore,  there is no deviating from the rules, ever. They are strictly enforced. If I allow one therapist to do one thing, but not another,  am I truly implementing rules? At that point it could be considered discrimination, because I'm picking and choosing who I let get away with what. Do I allow one patient to yell, scream and become violent, and the others get reassigned to another facility if they do the same? Absolutely not.

 

It's a slippery slope when rules are not consistent,  clearly stipulated,  and fully enforced. 

 

Any cruise line that offers rules yet doesn't adhere to them except when it's convenient is completely out of line. Thus the reason the dress code would be a guideline over a rule. Their policy and rules do not align with what takes place on the ships. I would not be surprised if someone filed a grievance and took a picture of another diner dressed similar who was permitted to dine and screamed discrimination, and rightfully so.  If you accept one you have to accept them all.

 

Many say rules are meant to be broken, and there is truth in that. Discrimination being at the forefront of that statement. Thank God Rosa Parks broke the rules.  There are policies that implement the rules that are formally stipulated and strictly enforced. They don't allow a gray area.

 

If my policies or rules were the same as the cruiselines, I would no longer have a practice.

 

You have to know the context before you can render it absolute.  "No" certainly means "no" in the context of touching another person or infringing on their personal rights or space. But a corporation is held to a much higher standard. No matter what we feel, it doesn't supersede what is right and just. Don't fall prey to normative social influence. 

 

If the cruiseline stipulated these are the "rules" then they pick and choose who they allow in and when to enforce their rule, that is discrimination.  You can't do that! It only takes one passenger to experience this and if they see another passenger in the MDR wearing a similar clothing item, but were allowed in, they now have to deal with a discrimination case. 

 

No business will survive if they pick and choose when to enforce rules. They'd have discrimination lawsuits left and right. People are naive and don't understand their rights. It's uncanny to me that adults don't see that. 

[Amadawn1]

This is being waaayyy overly dissected.  It's just whether or not T-shirts in the MDR are okay or break the suggested dress code.  Don't know how this discussion got so overblown.  Wear a decent T-shirt on casual night and you should be fine.  It's not a history or civil rights lecture.  Enjoy your cruise!

[Host Carolyn]

12 hours ago, Amadawn1 said:

This is being waaayyy overly dissected.  It's just whether or not T-shirts in the MDR are okay or break the suggested dress code.  Don't know how this discussion got so overblown.  Wear a decent T-shirt on casual night and you should be fine.  It's not a history or civil rights lecture.  Enjoy your cruise!

 

Yes, it has been asked, answered and turned inside out.