Canada ban just announced

[Fouremco]

4 minutes ago, mom says said:

Trudeau announced this new advisory this morning. Echoed by Canada's Chief Public Health Officer.

My understanding is the the GOC is asking Canadians to self-isolate. That is in contrast with BC and PEI making it a requirement.

[FRMPEI]

54 minutes ago, Fouremco said:

BC and PEI have implemented this for their residents, but I'm not aware of any federal requirement as yet. With all of the rapid changes, maybe I missed it.

 
How Is this ever going to be policed / regulated?

Edited March 13, 2020 by FRMPEI

[alwaysonaship]

1 hour ago, thon said:

Just to point out - the current ban is only until July.  I don’t know when the Alaska cruises typically go.  And of course the ban could be extended.

We have an Alaska Seabourn cruise early September. Starts in Juneau and arrives in Vancouver. I am beginning to think our vacations are out for 2020......

[Jim_Iain]

1 hour ago, JTSpitfire said:

So for Alaska cruises to go ahead the US feds will have to suspend the Jones Act to allow departure from a US port.

That would be a positive thing in my opinion. 

[SunNFunCruzer]

3 minutes ago, FRMPEI said:

 
How Is this ever going to be policed it regulated?

 

 

You'd probably have to declare at Customs where you will go "home" and how you will get there.  Then Canada will assign someone from a local Health Ministry to check on you, typically via phone.  They will probably ask you to take your temperature and report numbers and symptoms.  That is how some people in the US have been handled.

 

The larger concern is can you get home?  Borders are being closed and many flights cancelled.

 

 

[az_tchr]

42 minutes ago, Hazeleyes101 said:

Curious - how did you learn about the 2pm announcement?  I'd appreciate being introduced to any new source from which helpful travel information can be gleaned.  

Was posted on the APEX Facebook page. Reported on several Cruise Critic threads and roll calls.

[Fouremco]

1 minute ago, FRMPEI said:

 
How Is this ever going to be policed it regulated?

Excellent question. Neither BC nor PEI have provided an answer to date that I've seen. Does CBSA generate a daily report of returning residents, sorted by province, and pass it on to the provincial authorities? Do they in turn pass the provincial list on to the RCMP to conduct daily checks? In the end, I think it will turn out to be more of a voluntary, honour-based system of self-isolation.

[villauk]

2 minutes ago, az_tchr said:

Was posted on the APEX Facebook page. Reported on several Cruise Critic threads and roll calls.

 

 

Is that happening soon?

[Fouremco]

6 minutes ago, SunNFunCruzer said:

 

 

You'd probably have to declare at Customs where you will go "home" and how you will get there.  Then Canada will assign someone from a local Health Ministry to check on you, typically via phone.  They will probably ask you to take your temperature and report numbers and symptoms.  That is how some people in the US have been handled.

 

The larger concern is can you get home?  Borders are being closed and many flights cancelled.

 

 

Interesting approach, but in today's world of cellular communications, there's no guarantee that the person is at home.

[CILCIANRQTS]

1 hour ago, JTSpitfire said:

So for Alaska cruises to go ahead the US feds will have to suspend the Jones Act to allow departure from a US port.

 

This is not a Jones Act issue.

Closed loop cruises out of/into same US port are OK.

Also, Canadian Ports do not qualify as “distant foreign port” under the Jones Act.

[SunNFunCruzer]

Just now, Fouremco said:

Interesting approach, but in today's world of cellular communications, there's no guarantee that the person is at home.

 

I am American, so I don't know Canadian laws or how litigious Canadians are, but I believe in the US, if you were under a quarantine order from US CBP or any other US Government entity and then you violated that quarantine and went to work, or a store, or an event and infected other people that then caused them serious injury or death because of transfer of the CoronaVirus, and a lab could trace the source of the virus to the "quarantined" person, you could be held personally liable for damages. 

 

There is even, I believe, some precedent for criminal prosecution in the US, if you look at AIDS transmissions cases -- where people infected knew they were infected, and knowingly infected others who were unaware of the risk.

 

 

[sfaaa]

I am surprised US hasn't closed all their ports to cruise ships. No country wants to end up like China or Italy.

[ej21]

We are supposed to go to Canada/New England on June 20. I guess not anymore :( 

[az_tchr]

1 minute ago, SunNFunCruzer said:

 

I am American, so I don't know Canadian laws or how litigious Canadians are, but I believe in the US, if you were under a quarantine order from US CBP or any other US Government entity and then you violated that quarantine and went to work, or a store, or an event and infected other people that then caused them serious injury or death because of transfer of the CoronaVirus, and a lab could trace the source of the virus to the "quarantined" person, you could be held personally liable for damages. 

 

There is even, I believe, some precedent for criminal prosecution in the US, if you look at AIDS transmissions cases -- where people infected knew they were infected, and knowingly infected others who were unaware of the risk.

 

 

Spoke to Canadian friends who are heading home next week. 

They were told they need to declare a destination on entering. Home or somewhere good for 14 days.

They were told they were subject to monitoring. No details. Leaving home except to doctors not allowed. Send out for groceries.

We can debate people and how they could get around the quarantine. Most people will follow directions. And am sure they would be subject to sanctions if found out of their home.

[WonderMan3]

8 minutes ago, CILCIANRQTS said:

 

This is not a Jones Act issue.

Closed loop cruises out of/into same US port are OK.

Also, Canadian Ports do not qualify as “distant foreign port” under the Jones Act.

 It's PVSA not the Jones Act that comes into play here. My understanding is that if cruises departing from Seattle want to stop in Alaska ports that they would have to visit a foreign port. The only foreign ports in the region are in Canada. So the only thing these Alaska cruises out of Seattle could do now (if Seattle is even allowing cruise ships) would be to do 7 night at sea cruises. Alaska has a lot of scenic cruising so who knows, maybe they would try that.

 

https://www.cruisecritic.com/articles.cfm?ID=3363

[WonderMan3]

8 minutes ago, sfaaa said:

I am surprised US hasn't closed all their ports to cruise ships. No country wants to end up like China or Italy.

 

Yes, it's a bit mind boggling.

[hvbaskey]

24 minutes ago, CILCIANRQTS said:

 

This is not a Jones Act issue.

Closed loop cruises out of/into same US port are OK.

Also, Canadian Ports do not qualify as “distant foreign port” under the Jones Act.

 

There was a couple doing Vancouver to Hawaii to Vancouver to Los Angeles last October.   Celebrity didn’t see the first leg and told them they must disembark and reembark in Canada as it was a violation against the Jones Act.   When it was finally settled (it took them a while), it was realize that because the B2B2B started in Vancouver that they satisfied the Maritime Law.  

Huge thread on that somewhere in the past ...

[hvbaskey]

21 minutes ago, ej21 said:

We are supposed to go to Canada/New England on June 20. I guess not anymore 😞

 
IF Celebrity keeps the sailing alive, it will be “New England” and “Fill in the Blank” - this one they can fudge around with a bit (round trip out of Bayonne).

Alaska - trickier unless they do round trips out of one of the Alaskan ports (but can they even handle those logistics)?

[Fouremco]

3 minutes ago, SunNFunCruzer said:

 

I am American, so I don't know Canadian laws or how litigious Canadians are, but I believe in the US, if you were under a quarantine order from US CBP or any other US Government entity and then you violated that quarantine and went to work, or a store, or an event and infected other people that then caused them serious injury or death because of transfer of the CoronaVirus, and a lab could trace the source of the virus to the "quarantined" person, you could be held personally liable for damages. 

 

There is even, I believe, some precedent for criminal prosecution in the US, if you look at AIDS transmissions cases -- where people infected knew they were infected, and knowingly infected others who were unaware of the risk.

 

 

I think that the AIDS transmission cases demonstrate a key difference. With the AIDS cases, they were able to determine the source of the transmission. But if someone who is meant to be self-isolating chooses to step out and go shopping, and ends up infecting others, I understand that there is no means by which it would be possible to trace back to the source. 

 

15 minutes ago, az_tchr said:

Spoke to Canadian friends who are heading home next week. 

They were told they need to declare a destination on entering. Home or somewhere good for 14 days.

They were told they were subject to monitoring. No details. Leaving home except to doctors not allowed. Send out for groceries.

We can debate people and how they could get around the quarantine. Most people will follow directions. And am sure they would be subject to sanctions if found out of their home.

I assume that they are residents of BC or PEI. Any idea of from whom they received the information?

 

I'd like to agree that most people will follow directions, but when you look at the stats for drunk driving, it's clear that all too many people believe that the rules don't apply to them.

[WonderMan3]

6 minutes ago, hvbaskey said:

 
IF Celebrity keeps the sailing alive, it will be “New England” and “Fill in the Blank” - this one they can fudge around with a bit (round trip out of Bayonne).

Alaska - trickier unless they do round trips out of one of the Alaskan ports (but can they even handle those logistics)?

 

But even if they moved to an Alaskan port (highly doubtful), they would not be able to stop at any other Alaska ports because they won't be able to stop in Canada. So it would still be a 7 night sea cruise with no port stops.

[az_tchr]

21 minutes ago, Fouremco said:

I think that the AIDS transmission cases demonstrate a key difference. With the AIDS cases, they were able to determine the source of the transmission. But if someone who is meant to be self-isolating chooses to step out and go shopping, and ends up infecting others, I understand that there is no means by which it would be possible to trace back to the source. 

 

I assume that they are residents of BC or PEI. Any idea of from whom they received the information?

 

I'd like to agree that most people will follow directions, but when you look at the stats for drunk driving, it's clear that all too many people believe that the rules don't apply to them.

They indeed are BC residents. No idea of source except they are always on line. Of course people don't follow rules - see jail and prison populations - always, but most do..

Edited March 13, 2020 by az_tchr

[hvsteve1]

We had already cancelled our June cruise last week.

[bigbenboys]

5 hours ago, Moby Jones said:

 

Yes. Anyone thinking of booking a 2021 Alaskan trip might want to consider booking now as I can see demand for them increasing over the coming weeks and pushing the prices up as a result. 

We already have booked Millie for June 2021 Southern bound cruise. We booked last year.

[Pushka]

5 hours ago, thon said:

Just to point out - the current ban is only until July.  I don’t know when the Alaska cruises typically go.  And of course the ban could be extended.

Ours was late May last year. Several ships were there when we visited the week before. 
 

And I think that many may be surprised in a few months time of the toll that will be experienced in USA. 

Edited March 13, 2020 by Pushka

[Cruising89143]

You may see some of the ships moving south to Los Angeles and San Diego to the MR. At least in the short time and then reposition north for Alaska.