What will happen with Tiers and Benefits in case of a cruise line bankruptcy?

[Pushka]

9 hours ago, mac_tlc said:

I don’t recall any airline erasing all FF miles when they went bankrupt. I think the loyalty is very important any company emerging from bankruptcy and may be preserved. If it disappears and someone else buys the assets, that’s a different ballgame. Hopefully we will never find out.

 

mac_tlc

 

 

Maybe not in the USA. Happened in Australia. 

[Wolf 8]

I certainly hope no one is deprived the loyalty perks that take such sacrifice to earn.  I say this because before cruise operators fail a terrible number of our friends and neighbors will have died or suffered economic ruin.

 

In a way, tonight the world is one big Titanic.  Remember that karma can be a real witch.

[shipshape sam]

I am sure they will try to keep loyal repeat customers and thus incentives.  They are going to need them as raw advertising will not fill the ships quick enough.

 

I would not be surprised if they actually sail with less than full complement of sold cabins when they can start sailing again.

[deliver42]

The only people likely to start sailing with them would be past guests, so I believe they will keep the tiers, and maybe even throw in some more goodies.

[yorky]

On 3/27/2020 at 12:14 AM, farawayatsea said:

These kind of benefits are not recognised creditors in the bankruptcy of a company so would have no value and would disappear.  Even if they were a recognised creditor any value would be wiped out by secured loan holders. In the present climate a cruise ship has little value. My view is that most potential customers for cruising will not consider a cruise holiday for at least 2 years and not all if there is even a hint of a virus anywhere in the world.

I think you may be surprised, people quickly forget and move on when things settle down. With the right pricing I can see ships sailing full again very quickly.

[4774Papa]

13 minutes ago, yorky said:

I think you may be surprised, people quickly forget and move on when things settle down. With the right pricing I can see ships sailing full again very quickly.

In my opinion, a lot has to change before most people will want to go on a cruise ship.

1) Travel restrictions by different countries will likely persist for months.  Even the easiest cruises to start back (Caribbean) would require several countries in the area to open up to travelers.  Also, due to the many cruise ships in the past couple of months that were in quarantine creating huge problems for those passengers will still be front and center.

2) Many cruisers these days are retired Seniors that are at a higher risk from exposure to the virus.  

3) Celebrity will open up again May 12, I believe.   I doubt if the status of the virus in the USA will be such that even getting on an airplane will be a smart move.  Also, South Florida, while not as bad as NYC or California has a higher rate of infection and just going there to start a cruise would be another issue.

4) Yes, prices may be very  competitive for cruises in May or June, but all it takes is one infected person on a cruise ship to ruin a vacation.

[waterbug123]

14 hours ago, Wolf 8 said:

I certainly hope no one is deprived the loyalty perks that take such sacrifice to earn.

 

If someone is "sacrificing" to earn loyalty perks, they are cruising for the wrong reason.   We take cruises primarily to enjoy the cruise and/or destinations.  The loyalty perks are a nice byproduct of that.  We enjoy the perks, but they aren't the primary reason we cruise so we don't consider earning the to be a sacrifice.

 

The bottom line is that if a cruise line files bankruptcy, one of two things would likely happen.  One, a company goes out of business entirely.  They are gone, so their loyalty program is gone.  The assets (ships) are sold, another company buys them, and your status is zilch. 

Or two, they do a reorganizational bankruptcy in order to stay afloat.  The loyalty program would all but certainly continue, but it would be completely within the cruiseline's discretion to alter the program, i.e. change the perks/benefits.  If that happens, you'd likely see a shift in which benefits without a cost are prioritized over those that carry a cost.  For example, allowing status pax to disembark first doesn't really carry a cost compared to giving them a lot of free happy hour drinks. 

[twentyknots]

Our status with with HAL and Celebrity hasn't entered our minds.  We'll just be happy with our money back but even though we've requested it because the cruise was cancelled, we seriously doubt we'll ever see it.

We're not even considering another cruise until as one poster said there's not another case of Covid-19 in the world.  Even then after 27 cruises and 300 days cruising it may be time for us to find another form of entertainment and relaxation.  I'm 74, healthy, but dont like the idea of going to my doctor to get a note saying I can cruise.   

[OuiOnboard]

On 3/26/2020 at 7:02 PM, Jeremiah1212 said:

...But in reality Celebrity’s program doesn’t cost them that much since the actual benefits are nominal, even at the highest tiers. That’s also why I don’t really understand why people chase cruise
 line loyalty....

Yes, it seems loyalty status is valuable...until it isn't. 

[dkjretired]

Might be educational if we can research the end of Renaissance Cruises back about 15 years ago or so. Their ships are now Azamara ships but for the lawyers out there it might be interesting. I believe around that time another line went out of business but can’t think of it at this time.

 

I seem to remember that around that time there was a cruise line that ceased operations while their ships were at sea, they just went to a port and let everyone off.

 

My guess if anything happens there would be a consolidation of the lines, seems that's what happened years ago. 

Edited March 28, 2020 by dkjretired

[Charles4515]

Might be educational if we can research the end of Renaissance Cruises back about 15 years ago or so. Their ships are now Azamara ships but for the lawyers out there it might be interesting. I believe around that time another line went out of business but can’t think of it at this time.   I seem to remember that around that time there was a cruise line that ceased operations while their ships were at sea, they just went to a port and let everyone off.   My guess if anything happens there would be a consolidation of the lines, seems that's what happened years ago. 

 

 

 

 

 After their bankruptcy all their ships were sold. All the R ships are still sailing. Some have been sold multiple times. Today Azamara and Oceania have the bulk of them. Princess still has one and I think P&O may have one.   

 

No doubt the loyalty perks if they had them were lost as it was a liquidation. In the past there have been lines that took over other lines. In some of those cases the past sailings did transfer.

 

 

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[dkjretired]

1 hour ago, Charles4515 said:

 After their bankruptcy all their ships were sold. All the R ships are still sailing. Some have been sold multiple times. Today Azamara and Oceania have the bulk of them. Princess still has one and I think P&O may have one.   

 

No doubt the loyalty perks if they had them were lost as it was a liquidation. In the past there have been lines that took over other lines. In some of those cases the past sailings did transfer.

 

 

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Yes, I was thinking more about whether there is anything that can be learned from that experience in the event someone goes under.   I remember on these boards some similar questions were asked back then.  

[Charles4515]

 

Yes, I was thinking more about whether there is anything that can be learned from that experience in the event someone goes under.   I remember on these boards some similar questions were asked back then.  

 

Back then the loyalty programs were pretty much getting invited to a top tier event.

 

I believe if a line goes under if the ships are sold off piecemeal then the benefits will be lost. If a line goes under but the brand is acquired or merged then benefits will probably carry on or be merged.

 

 

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[dkjretired]

9 hours ago, Charles4515 said:

 

Back then the loyalty programs were pretty much getting invited to a top tier event.

 

I believe if a line goes under if the ships are sold off piecemeal then the benefits will be lost. If a line goes under but the brand is acquired or merged then benefits will probably carry on or be merged.

 

 

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Yup, there were no levels and yourare right, you got invited to a party.   I do remember Celebrity has always had the special line for members of CC and the one category upgrades.   Of course the only cabin categories were inner, outer and suites.   No verandas, CC or Aqua.   That was about it.  

Edited March 29, 2020 by dkjretired

[Charles4515]

 
Yup, there were no levels and yourare right, you got invited to a party.   I do remember Celebrity has always had the special line for members of CC and the one category upgrades.   Of course the only cabin categories were inner, outer and suites.   No verandas, CC or Aqua.   That was about it.  

You had to pay to join the Captains Club. I think membership cost me $29 or something like that.


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[dkjretired]

2 minutes ago, Charles4515 said:

 

You had to pay to join the Captains Club. I think membership cost me $29 or something like that.


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Yes, it was $35 for a family when we joined.   There was a lawsuit later which gave coupons to those people who paid to join, the coupons were for about $25 per person but there were so many restrictions they were virtually useless.  I mentioned about families joining and this was true, wife, daughter who was 8 and son who was 6 and myself each had our own CC cards.   I still have all four of our cards from back in the early 90s, they had our CC numbers with only five digits.    I spoke to someone once at Celebrity who apparently wasn't around then and he argued with me that children were never members.   I faxed him all four of our cards and he was shocked.    I always tell people, keep your sailing cards for when the kids turn 18 which is when they can join now.   Computers change and so does info, I know that for a fact as my kids lost a couple of cruises.   

[Luckiestmanonearth]

On 3/26/2020 at 11:00 PM, mac_tlc said:

Delta Air lines filed for chapter 11 bankruptcy in September 2005 and emerged in April 2007. 

 

American Airlines filed in November 2011 and emerged in December 2013.

 

Also USAirways, United, Air Canada and a whole bunch of others. Many ceased operations  and some were acquired. DL, AA, and AC emerged and survived to fly another day. 
 

mac_tlc

I’m guessing that if there were bailouts, that the airlines would take priority over cruise lines as air travel is necessary for the domestic and international business infrastructure. 
Cruise line are not .  They are a luxury and if the government can only support one mode of travel , it’ll be the airlines.

[4774Papa]

Many US airlines in the past have gone bankrupt.  I probably can't remember them all, but here are a few:

Eastern, PanAmerican, TWA are major airlines that went bankrupt.   Many others have merged and been absorbed by other airlines, for example, US Airways, Northwest Airlines, Continental, Allegheny and more.

 

The bankrupt lines could not handle the competition with others when in the 1970s the US government deregulated the air industry, significantly lowering air fare prices.   Airlines like TWA, PanAm and Eastern had overpriced union contracts and couldn't compete with others.  For example, Delta, until it incorporated Northwest had no union.   Airlines like Southwest, with excellent management once only flew out of Texas, but later grew to be a major domestic carrier.

 

 

[davekathy]

6 hours ago, dkjretired said:

 

Yes, it was $35 for a family when we joined.   There was a lawsuit later which gave coupons to those people who paid to join, the coupons were for about $25 per person but there were so many restrictions they were virtually useless.  I mentioned about families joining and this was true, wife, daughter who was 8 and son who was 6 and myself each had our own CC cards.   I still have all four of our cards from back in the early 90s, they had our CC numbers with only five digits.    I spoke to someone once at Celebrity who apparently wasn't around then and he argued with me that children were never members.   I faxed him all four of our cards and he was shocked.    I always tell people, keep your sailing cards for when the kids turn 18 which is when they can join now.   Computers change and so does info, I know that for a fact as my kids lost a couple of cruises.   

We still have the four leather luggage tag holders, four personalized luggage tags and two CC pins. To this day we still use the leather luggage tag holders. Held up nicely with all our air travels. 

Edited March 29, 2020 by davekathy

[Charles4515]

Many US airlines in the past have gone bankrupt.  I probably can't remember them all, but here are a few:
Eastern, PanAmerican, TWA are major airlines that went bankrupt.   Many others have merged and been absorbed by other airlines, for example, US Airways, Northwest Airlines, Continental, Allegheny and more.
 
 

Actually US Air absorbed American and took on the AA name. They did merge the two programs. I was in both. US Air was a horrible airline and their management took over and what is called American has the same horrible management.



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[4774Papa]

1 hour ago, Charles4515 said:

 

Actually US Air absorbed American and took on the AA name. They did merge the two programs. I was in both. US Air was a horrible airline and their management took over and what is called American has the same horrible management.



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Charles,

Yes, American is our least favorite of the major three US airlines.    We primarily fly Delta and have been happy with them.

We did fly US Air a couple of times to Europe, prior to the merger with American.  I actually like US Air more than American.

[frteach]

If anyone is really not going to cruise until there are no Covid-19 cases left in the world, then you are not going to cruise again for sure. This virus is going to be endemic in the world for longer than our lifetimes, just as influenza, measles, smallpox, and even the plague are still around somewhere. The difference will be that we will vaccinate against this strain just as we now do for influenza and the others. Influenza and the common cold are both forms of the corona virus and we have developed treatment for them. 

Back to the topic, I cruise for the experience of visiting the ports of the world, and that has nothing to do with "tiers" or perks. I'm not worried about bankruptcy.

[cruise kitty]

12 hours ago, dkjretired said:

 

Yes, it was $35 for a family when we joined.   There was a lawsuit later which gave coupons to those people who paid to join, the coupons were for about $25 per person but there were so many restrictions they were virtually useless.  I mentioned about families joining and this was true, wife, daughter who was 8 and son who was 6 and myself each had our own CC cards.   I still have all four of our cards from back in the early 90s, they had our CC numbers with only five digits.    I spoke to someone once at Celebrity who apparently wasn't around then and he argued with me that children were never members.   I faxed him all four of our cards and he was shocked.    I always tell people, keep your sailing cards for when the kids turn 18 which is when they can join now.   Computers change and so does info, I know that for a fact as my kids lost a couple of cruises.   

 

Still have my card as well....  didn't join on our very first cruise, as we figured we'd be one and done...  think I joined in 2003 for our second hawaii cruise on the infinity...  never did get credit for that first cruise.   DH doesn't have a card as we figured why pay for two memberships when you share the benefits....  think I paid either $25 or $35 can't remember...  I actually still have the letter that came with the card in a box somewhere :)

[Charles4515]

If anyone is really not going to cruise until there are no Covid-19 cases left in the world, then you are not going to cruise again for sure. This virus is going to be endemic in the world for longer than our lifetimes, just as influenza, measles, smallpox, and even the plague are still around somewhere. The difference will be that we will vaccinate against this strain just as we now do for influenza and the others. Influenza and the common cold are both forms of the corona virus and we have developed treatment for them.  Back to the topic, I cruise for the experience of visiting the ports of the world, and that has nothing to do with "tiers" or perks. I'm not worried about bankruptcy.

 

 

Really the experience of visiting the ports from a cruise ship is pretty limited but I would never gotten that limited experience for many places without cruises. Outside the Caribbean I usually combine a cruise with a land vacation. In the Caribbean I am into snorkeling and beaches. I also like sailing the ocean. Over the years though the food onboard has gone downhill on the mainstream cruise lines as they stuff more cabins onto ships every dry dock. I don’t sail for the tiers and perks although I will accept them if offered. I got the perks by cruising a lot, I was not cruising for the perks. I recently sailed on Oceania the first time so had no perks but really most of what are perks on mainstream lines were included. Of course you are paying for them.

 

I won’t be booking any future cruises until there is a vaccine. Then I will book but probably look to book on Oceania or Azamara or other lines like that if they survive.

 

 

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[Germancruiser]

The perks are the least of my worries these days. If they keep up - nice- if not- ce la vie!