After Ruby Princess - this Is The Last Thing We Need

[Porky55]

Heard this being discussed on ABC this morning - it just never ends, this sadness;

https://www.abc.net.au/4corners/trapped-in-the-volcano/12176754
 

Edited April 26, 2020 by Porky55

[getting older slowly]

Yes White Island was a terrible thing..... we were on the the island on the 2nd December a week before  ....

 

we were on a B2B cruise and were still cruising when we heard the news.......  it was disbelieve......

 

As we landed on the island we could see the long line of people off the tour boat,

making there way back from the crater to the old wharf to wait for the tender to talk them back to their boat....

 

Later I thought ... they would have had no hope of escape......  very sad....

 

 

Taken about noon 2nd December 2019

 

Don

 

 

 

 

[boeckli]

We sailed past three days after the tragedy and it was a very somber mood among all those out on deck

 

[Kiwi Kruzer]

Here’s an article from the NZ Herald with the latest update on 06/4/20
 

Last of those injured in the Whakaari/White Island eruption released from hospital 
https://nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/article.cfm?c_id=1&objectid=12322916

[MicCanberra]

I will be watching tonight, am hoping for a balanced report rather than a story.

[banzaii]

12 hours ago, Porky55 said:

Heard this being discussed on ABC this morning - it just never ends, this sadness;

https://www.abc.net.au/4corners/trapped-in-the-volcano/12176754
 

When the media use sensationalist headlines to get people to click that's one thing.  Please explain how you are linking these two tragedies.

[getting older slowly]

Just watched 4 corners

 

the thing which struck me was this..............!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

 

Photos of the crater at white island

 

before we went the photos showed the back wall of the crater with a single plume of steam

 

when we were there the week before most of back wall was cover with steam but the lake was clear

 

as you can see.......

 

on the footage shown on the day the crater lake was completely covered in steam.......

 

the point  having seen earlier photos i thought is was more active when we were there the week before.....

 

but what was taken by the tourists  the whole lake was steaming...........

 

for anybody whom been to the island many times... this would have looked some what dire????

 

I feel so much for the people there on the 9th December

 

as this is first time I have seen footage from the day... and recognize all the footage in detail as we were standing there were they were..........

 

Don 

Edited April 27, 2020 by getting older slowly
spelling

[Porky55]

11 hours ago, banzaii said:

When the media use sensationalist headlines to get people to click that's one thing.  Please explain how you are linking these two tragedies.

Because both cruise ships had loss of lives and both now have law suits pending.
This regardless of everything the families have already been through ( from both Princess and RCI)  in my personal opinion is exceptionally sad!!
Is this link acceptable??

Edited April 27, 2020 by Porky55

[MicCanberra]

I think it was a very sad story last night, apart form the dead and injured, there would be many more with trauma from the incident.

Not a lawyer, so these are my thoughts, not legal opinion.

While I have no issue with Royal being sued (as they were responsible for their passengers) I do think that was not Royal's fault and the case has to be presented along those lines.

Of course, Royal may well turn around and sue the White Island tour company for the same.

[Aus Traveller]

1 hour ago, Porky55 said:

Because both cruise ships had loss of lives and both now have law suits pending.
This regardless of everything the families have already been through ( from both Princess and RCI)  in my personal opinion is exceptionally sad!!
Is this link acceptable??

I feel that the way you presented this very sad event is reasonable. 🙂There could be an objection if you had put it on a Ruby Princess thread.

[aussielozzie18]

From the program.  Those that visited from land on that tragic day, signed a waiver at the tour company office before being taken to the island by boat. This was described on camera by a visitor to the island that day (his group had just departed the island by boat when the volcano erupted). Those that visited from Ovation - the shore tour info did not mention risk - just to consider your physical capabilities and make sure your wear covered shoes - this statement came from the lawyer suing RCI. The white island shore tour printed info was shown on camera but was blurry.  Don - surely there must have beensome mention by RCI of  the risk due to it being an active volcano.  Do you remember it being mentioned in the shore tour info and/or signing a waiver?

[ilikeanswers]

3 hours ago, aussielozzie18 said:

Those that visited from Ovation - the shore tour info did not mention risk - just to consider your physical capabilities and make sure your wear covered shoes - this statement came from the lawyer suing RCI. The white island shore tour printed info was shown on camera but was blurry.  Don - surely there must have beensome mention by RCI of  the risk due to it being an active volcano.  Do you remember it being mentioned in the shore tour info and/or signing a waiver?

 

Maybe I am being naive but I would assume being told it is an active volcano should indicate how risky the tour is? I have visited quite a few active volcano sites and I have always done so with the thought in mind that this is a high risk activity and there is no way to guarantee it won't erupt during my visit. Admittedly I am a bit of a volcano enthusiast so maybe my knowledge base is more than the average tourist so maybe I am not assessing the risk in the way same way 😳. 

[Kiwi Kruzer]

I wonder if they give warnings for the tour to Rotorua , also an active thermal area. .?

[lyndarra]

33 minutes ago, Kiwi Kruzer said:

I wonder if they give warnings for the tour to Rotorua , also an active thermal area. .?

Thermal, is the operative word, rather than volcanic.

Our guide in February explained that Rotorua is more affected by seismic events than volcanic.

Edited April 28, 2020 by lyndarra
added info

[Kiwi Kruzer]

2 minutes ago, lyndarra said:

Thermal, is the operative word, rather than volcanic.

It’s all volcanic , check out Mt Tarawera .....

 

The 1886 eruption of Mount Tarawera occurred in the early hours of 10 June 1886 in the North Island near Rotorua then extended to Waimangu, New Zealand. It is the deadliest eruption in New Zealand since the arrival of Europeans. Around 120 people were killed, and many settlements were destroyed or buried.

[getting older slowly]

4 hours ago, aussielozzie18 said:

Don - surely there must have beensome mention by RCI of  the risk due to it being an active volcano.  Do you remember it being mentioned in the shore tour info and/or signing a waiver?

To Answer your question we were on a cruise with Princess which stopped Tauranga

we had organised a tour privately with a helicopter company in Tauranga from home

 

We did sign a waiver before taking off... also it was explained that if the pilot deemed it was unsafe to land we would get a partial refund ... also once landing, the pilot show us the bunker on the island and told us if we heard of felt anything make your way ( run ) to the bunker of if he was at the chopper go to that.....

 

and were issued helmets and gas masks   

 

On a side note.... the pilot did seam to be a bit on edge... and we only spent a short time at crater... and most of time near the chopper..

 

Cheers Don.  

[The_Big_M]

47 minutes ago, ilikeanswers said:

 

Maybe I am being naive but I would assume being told it is an active volcano should indicate how risky the tour is? I have visited quite a few active volcano sites and I have always done so with the thought in mind that this is a high risk activity and there is no way to guarantee it won't erupt during my visit. Admittedly I am a bit of a volcano enthusiast so maybe my knowledge base is more than the average tourist so maybe I am not assessing the risk in the way same way 😳. 

 

The sales paraphernalia was negligent in my view. It was only a sales pitch - and a pretty encouraging one at that - and didn't mention any risks.

 

I don't know whether there was any subsequent waiver, but I would expect that RCL should have warned of the upgraded advisory and allowed people to reconsider - but I haven't heard anything to indicate they have so that comes across as negligent. Of course, they may have a counter claim against the tour operator if that information was not provided to RCL.

[Cruisegroover]

4 hours ago, MicCanberra said:

 

Of course, Royal may well turn around and sue the White Island tour company for the same.

Royal nor the families of the injured and those who died can sue the operators under NZ law. This maybe the reason the lawyers are going after Royal. I also thought that any lawsuit would have to be filed in the US but maybe I am wrong.

https://www.abc.net.au/news/2019-12-12/new-zealand-whakaari-white-island-disaster-indemnity-insurance/11787816

 

Royal could also argue the operators failed to alert them that the threat level had been raised from 1 to 2. 

https://www.geonet.org.nz/vabs/1prVlz8jGXwWayA8D6Uu5y

https://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/article.cfm?c_id=1&objectid=12292904

Perhaps our NZ friends here can confirm this info.

[lyndarra]

Te Puia is a geothermal area in a volcanic zone. Only steam and sulphurous hot mud at Rotorua from geothermal activity, no lava flows. Not in the same league as Whakaari

Edited April 28, 2020 by lyndarra

[MicCanberra]

I would have liked someone other than the lawyer to state exactly what information they got given, what they had to sign (if anything), what they got told, etc.

From experience, I have been on several higher risk excursions and there have always been disclaimers to sign despite here being nothing in the brochure or the ticket.

[Porky55]

6 hours ago, Aus Traveller said:

I feel that the way you presented this very sad event is reasonable. 🙂There could be an objection if you had put it on a Ruby Princess thread.

Aus Traveller - exactly my reason for the post - If the events themselves weren’t bad enough, our cruising community can’t seem to get a break. 
Just want everything to go back to calm waters, but some (like those “No Fee Lawyers) jump on the 💰 👀 band wagon!

Edited April 28, 2020 by Porky55

[banzaii]

13 hours ago, Porky55 said:

Because both cruise ships had loss of lives and both now have law suits pending.
This regardless of everything the families have already been through ( from both Princess and RCI)  in my personal opinion is exceptionally sad!!
Is this link acceptable??

Thanks

 

I was a bit confused why the heading only mentions Ruby and the first post mentions nothing about either Ruby or Ovation but links to the White Island disaster.  It seemed a bit like a click-bait topic which I am not fond of.

 

I was wondering if there were 2 different topics and now the link does not work, it would be even more confusing for someone checking in without context.

[banzaii]

7 hours ago, Cruisegroover said:

Royal nor the families of the injured and those who died can sue the operators under NZ law. This maybe the reason the lawyers are going after Royal. I also thought that any lawsuit would have to be filed in the US but maybe I am wrong.

https://www.abc.net.au/news/2019-12-12/new-zealand-whakaari-white-island-disaster-indemnity-insurance/11787816

 

Royal could also argue the operators failed to alert them that the threat level had been raised from 1 to 2. 

https://www.geonet.org.nz/vabs/1prVlz8jGXwWayA8D6Uu5y

https://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/article.cfm?c_id=1&objectid=12292904

Perhaps our NZ friends here can confirm this info.

My understanding is that this legally cannot be lodged in NZ.  Even though the cruise originated in Oz, it is debatable if legal papers will get any traction here either.

 

Tragically, no amount of legal action will bring back a single person or wipe the memories of those who assisted.

[MMDown Under]

21 hours ago, MicCanberra said:

I think it was a very sad story last night, apart form the dead and injured, there would be many more with trauma from the incident.

Not a lawyer, so these are my thoughts, not legal opinion.

While I have no issue with Royal being sued (as they were responsible for their passengers) I do think that was not Royal's fault and the case has to be presented along those lines.

Of course, Royal may well turn around and sue the White Island tour company for the same.

Royal were negligent because they didn't warn their passengers of the high risk involved.  They didn't check the updated safety level of the volcano. In addition, they didn't advise the next of kin of the status of their loved ones, in a timely manner, so they could visit the still living in hospital. 

[MicCanberra]

2 hours ago, MMDown Under said:

Royal were negligent because they didn't warn their passengers of the high risk involved.  They didn't check the updated safety level of the volcano. In addition, they didn't advise the next of kin of the status of their loved ones, in a timely manner, so they could visit the still living in hospital. 

I am not sure your first few points are even true or if true whether they would carry enough weight through as being negligent. 

As for the last points, while I agree it was handled badly by Royal, that is not the issue and would not be claimable in this case.

Like I said, they may be responsible but not necessarily negligent.