Does anyone from HAL read these posts?

[RocketMan275]

9 hours ago, JeffElizabeth said:

I disagree. Polls work based on samples. They don't ask everyone.  Holland can get a good sense of what is and isn't working by reading this page. Plus only makes sense to read reviews of your ships and individual cruises.

And pollsters are very diligent in ensuring samples are representative of the general population.   CC posters are not representative, they are too focused on the past and not on what HAL should do to improve itself.  Just look at the thread on what HAL should restore now that Ashford has left.  The biggest issue in that thread is restoring the library rather than improving profitability.

 

As I've said in the past, the biggest problem with CC posters is they think they're experts on how to run a cruise line when the majority have never even owned a boat.

[Tampa Girl]

1 hour ago, RocketMan275 said:

And pollsters are very diligent in ensuring samples are representative of the general population.   CC posters are not representative, they are too focused on the past and not on what HAL should do to improve itself.  Just look at the thread on what HAL should restore now that Ashford has left.  The biggest issue in that thread is restoring the library rather than improving profitability.

 

As I've said in the past, the biggest problem with CC posters is they think they're experts on how to run a cruise line when the majority have never even owned a boat.

 

Since the majority of us are not experts on how to run a cruise line (but, yes, we have owned many boats), how are we to be expected to ruminate on the issue of "improving profitability" of a cruise line?  And, why, should that even be our first interest, since we are pay a lot of money to sail and rightly expect that it will be a pleasurable experience.

[RocketMan275]

35 minutes ago, Tampa Girl said:

 

Since the majority of us are not experts on how to run a cruise line (but, yes, we have owned many boats), how are we to be expected to ruminate on the issue of "improving profitability" of a cruise line?  And, why, should that even be our first interest, since we are pay a lot of money to sail and rightly expect that it will be a pleasurable experience.

Why should the cruise line take seriously the vast majority of the trivial complaints here on CC?

[JeffElizabeth]

1 hour ago, RocketMan275 said:

Why should the cruise line take seriously the vast majority of the trivial complaints here on CC?

And they probably don't. But if you read a number of reviews of one ship and they all say "she is looking tired and the décor needs to be updated", you should probably pay attention if you are a cruise line. Or if 90% of people here think the Orange Club is a great idea and they like paying a little extra for better service, you will know it is a keeper. 

[ontheweb]

15 hours ago, JeffElizabeth said:

I disagree. Polls work based on samples. They don't ask everyone.  Holland can get a good sense of what is and isn't working by reading this page. Plus only makes sense to read reviews of your ships and individual cruises.

Polls work because of RANDOM  samples; I don't think you can consider these boards as a random sample of cruisers.

[rkacruiser]

12 hours ago, RocketMan275 said:

And pollsters are very diligent in ensuring samples are representative of the general population.   

 

I believe that it is agreed that such polling practices didn't work so well during 2016.

[rkacruiser]

12 hours ago, RocketMan275 said:

As I've said in the past, the biggest problem with CC posters is they think they're experts on how to run a cruise line when the majority have never even owned a boat.

 

Never owned a boat.  But, I have enough "water under my keel" to have a better opinion of what the cruise experience ought to be as compared to Executives that have been hired who have no relevant experience to what the cruise experience ought to be.  

 

Mr. Ashford is just one of other Senior V-P's for "this and that" that had little to no experience in the hospitality/cruise industry.  I believe what they tried to do was well meaning,  Successful?  Some of these folks are now "on the beach".  

[KroozNut]

On 6/11/2020 at 11:26 AM, VMax1700 said:

Perhaps the clue is in the name  Cruise CRITIC.  Now if they changed the name to Cruise Critique, then there may be a more balanced view.

I really doubt that the site name has anything to do with the sort of content shared here.

[Woofbite]

I would guess that a lot of HAL people read comments on here because it is normal curiosity to see what people think of your company.  At least I read forums and reviews and articles about my company when I worked for an airline.

 

[ontheweb]

12 minutes ago, Woofbite said:

I would guess that a lot of HAL people read comments on here because it is normal curiosity to see what people think of your company.  At least I read forums and reviews and articles about my company when I worked for an airline.

 

If you saw some sort of suggestion that made sense or a complaint that you thought could be easily resolved, did you bring it to the attention of those who had the authority to act on it?

[iancal]

I think the other issue with CC members is that they not only believe that they are experts ( far too often assuming that their wants and desires are universal to all customers) but they also believe that the cruise lines should orient all offerings to their specific market segment even if it is at the expense of other target market groups.  This will not happen on a mass market cruise line like HAL, Celebrity, etc.  Too many ships, not enough customers in that space to fill all those berths or generate enough extra on board revenue.

[utahtea]

On 6/11/2020 at 11:22 AM, Donald said:

Having worked on HAL ships and in the HAL Office for quite some time, I have quite a bit of experience with both groups.

The shipboard personnel take Cruise Critic quite seriously. They read it regularly and pass around positive and negative comments.

Most cruise lines do have a staff member in the office who monitors all the social cruse websites.

Most of the people in the office have a generally negative view of CC Members and their comments.

The only time the office contacts the ships about CC reviews or comments is when they are really terribly negative.

 

I've worked on the back end of message boards and was a Community Manager for some big companies and I agree with Donald.  Companies want to know what's being said about them on forums.  It could be HAL &/or CC &/or a third party moderator but you can bet they are giving feedback to the company.

 

Utahtea

Edited June 13, 2020 by utahtea

[npcl]

On 6/11/2020 at 6:26 PM, JeffElizabeth said:

I disagree. Polls work based on samples. They don't ask everyone.  Holland can get a good sense of what is and isn't working by reading this page. Plus only makes sense to read reviews of your ships and individual cruises.

Good polls have a structure that determines who gets asked in the sample to make sure the appropriate demographics are being polled. Less productive  polls are one that use a self selecting group, such as CC.  

[npcl]

4 hours ago, iancal said:

I think the other issue with CC members is that they not only believe that they are experts ( far too often assuming that their wants and desires are universal to all customers) but they also believe that the cruise lines should orient all offerings to their specific market segment even if it is at the expense of other target market groups.  This will not happen on a mass market cruise line like HAL, Celebrity, etc.  Too many ships, not enough customers in that space to fill all those berths or generate enough extra on board revenue.

Considering that most CC members are those with a history of cruising  and have selected cruise lines based upon their experience, the most common feedback from CC is change things back to how they used to be and do not make changes.

[ontheweb]

9 hours ago, npcl said:

Good polls have a structure that determines who gets asked in the sample to make sure the appropriate demographics are being polled. Less productive  polls are one that use a self selecting group, such as CC.  

It is called random sampling. An example of how a poll can go wrong is the one that had Hoover being reelected instead of FDR winning the presidency. It was actually random, but it was a random sample of those who had telephones. That might work today, but not in 1932. Telephone owners were not representative of the population at large; just like posters on these boards are also not representative of the population at large.

[RocketMan275]

11 hours ago, npcl said:

Considering that most CC members are those with a history of cruising  and have selected cruise lines based upon their experience, the most common feedback from CC is change things back to how they used to be and do not make changes.

Precisely why the lines don't spend a lot of effort monitoring CC.  They know that what posters here want is to roll back cruising to what it was twenty or thirty years ago.  Instead, they focus on their surveys which bring in a much broader demographic whose opinions are more valuable to the bottom line.

[iancal]

Not only that, HAL most likely knows that those loyal customers will complain from morning until night about how things 'used to be' in the old days....still continue to book HAL cruises.    Don't know why if they are so unhappy about the changes.   

[ShipWalker]

42 minutes ago, iancal said:

Not only that, HAL most likely knows that those loyal customers will complain from morning until night about how things 'used to be' in the old days....still continue to book HAL cruises.    Don't know why if they are so unhappy about the changes.   

I think they may be the same people who huffed indignantly when CC updated this website a short while back. (and yet are still here.) 😉

Edited June 14, 2020 by ShipWalker

[iancal]

We do not view cruise line loyalty as a badge of honor.  Come to think of, we feel the same about loyalty to any for profit corporation.  Only as good as the last buy.

[RocketMan275]

55 minutes ago, iancal said:

Not only that, HAL most likely knows that those loyal customers will complain from morning until night about how things 'used to be' in the old days....still continue to book HAL cruises.    Don't know why if they are so unhappy about the changes.   

It's not so much the changes per se.  Since HAL didn't check with them first, it shows a lack of respect for their exalted mariner status.

[MISTER 67]

I have 3 PCCs with various lines. When I talk them about something I read on CC I can sense that they are rolling their eyes. One actually told to me to not believe anything I read on CC. 

That being said, I will continue to be a member here as I see no better way to find out what other cruisers are feeling about various topics related to cruising.

Edited June 14, 2020 by MISTER 67

[JeffElizabeth]

21 hours ago, Woofbite said:

I would guess that a lot of HAL people read comments on here because it is normal curiosity to see what people think of your company.  At least I read forums and reviews and articles about my company when I worked for an airline.

 

Yes. When I review restaurants on Yelp, I  often get a quick response back from their managers whether it is positive or negative.  

[npcl]

8 hours ago, ontheweb said:

It is called random sampling. An example of how a poll can go wrong is the one that had Hoover being reelected instead of FDR winning the presidency. It was actually random, but it was a random sample of those who had telephones. That might work today, but not in 1932. Telephone owners were not representative of the population at large; just like posters on these boards are also not representative of the population at large.

However, in a business, one wants to structure the sample based upon current and future customer base. So you might intentionally sample an audience who has never cruised to get an idea about what might make them want to cruise.  You will also use other demographics markers such as income, age, family size, etc.  Based upon your marketing direction.  Business polling, if done correctly, can be very structured and detailed in its break down.

 

There is a school of marketing embraced by some companies, such as Apple for example, where you intentionally ignore people who complain about the product.  The idea is that it is better if those that don't like the product just go away and stop making noise, while encouraging those that are advocates of the product.  That it is better to have a solid base of advocates, that it is to keep those at the margin by trying to keep the complainers happy. Jobs was very much an advocate of that approach.

Edited June 14, 2020 by npcl

[kazu]

3 hours ago, RocketMan275 said:

It's not so much the changes per se.  Since HAL didn't check with them first, it shows a lack of respect for their exalted mariner status.

 

You really like to generalize, don’t you? 🙄

 

Just to make sure I have understood your posts -  you don’t sail HAL right?  

[bennybear]

Seems to be a common thing that some  posters haven’t sailed on HAL for years.