NCL/RCL team to develop reopening plans for CDC

[Travelcat2]

18 minutes ago, mrlevin said:

Jackie, if you don't have a copy of the subject study why in the world did you reply?????  You know nothing!!!!  Please, I just asked a simple question about a link to the study on droplets staying in the air for an hour.  If you are so kind to ignore pappy's posts please ignore mine too.

 

Marc

 

Neither you nor other posters can dictate what I can or cannot respond to.  While I would be happy to ignore you, I don't because I need to see what you post as I do not trust you.  Sometimes you come out with wildly rude posts (such as "you know nothing").  Perhaps you should "ignore" me.  Actually, that is a great idea!

[d9704011]

59 minutes ago, mrlevin said:

 

Pappy, I have seen that headline but I haven't seen the study; do you have a link to the actual study; I would like to read it and review the data.

 

thanks,

 

Marc

I believe this is what is being referred to:

 

[mrlevin]

d970, link doesn't seem to work; am I missing something?

 

Marc

[cruiseluv]

5 hours ago, Travelcat2 said:

 

One thing that isn't mentioned much is shoes.  One article did mention the virus in the air ending up on the ground/floor that we walk on.  We then walk into our homes.  While we have not worn shoes in our home in years, we now remove them and spray the soles before entering the house.  

OMG! Really, its better not to keep up with all the Covid news, it can make your head spin! So what if we walk on the virus?? I usually dont eat on the floor, do you? I would hope after stomping my feet/ shoes the virus would be killed, dispersed, whatever...

Let me tell you what's my marker... All the cashiers in the market where I do my shopping ( and many people around me do as well),  are still there, never seen them absent since this started. So I assume they've never gotten sick! This are the people that are supposed to be most exposed to the virus, yet, there they are! You can infer whatever you want from that, in my case, it gives me comfort. 

[Travelcat2]

Maria, I don’t think that it is strange not to wear shoes in the house (this is done in many countries as well in many homes in Hawaii).  For the heck of it, try wiping the bottom of your shoes with a cleaner and see how filthy they are.  During the summer, many people go barefoot in the house.  Then people put their feet on the sofa or, in my case, my feet are on a recliner.  Most of us do not wash out feet before getting into bed.  

 

Anyway, in my opinion, it is safer to take off your shoes than to track in dirt and germs.  I’m not trying to preach to anyone but to share awareness.  

[cruiseluv]

39 minutes ago, Travelcat2 said:

Maria, I don’t think that it is strange not to wear shoes in the house (this is done in many countries as well in many homes in Hawaii).  For the heck of it, try wiping the bottom of your shoes with a cleaner and see how filthy they are.  During the summer, many people go barefoot in the house.  Then people put their feet on the sofa or, in my case, my feet are on a recliner.  Most of us do not wash out feet before getting into bed.  

 

Anyway, in my opinion, it is safer to take off your shoes than to track in dirt and germs.  I’m not trying to preach to anyone but to share awareness.  

Jackie, maybe I should have said ( but I didnt because who would care) that Ive had the custom of getting off my shoes and into slippers as soon as I get into the house for ages. My point is , I dont think anyone's at more risk if they dont do that

[Kiwifromkiev]

6 hours ago, mrlevin said:

 

Pappy, I have seen that headline but I haven't seen the study; do you have a link to the actual study; I would like to read it and review the data.

 

thanks,

 

Marc

Marc, this is not quite a link to the study, but I've found this good and informative. Have a look

https://www.nature.com/articles/d41586-020-02058-1

[d9704011]

6 hours ago, mrlevin said:

d970, link doesn't seem to work; am I missing something?

 

Marc

Try this....

 

ciaa939.pdf

[pappy1022]

11 hours ago, mrlevin said:

Jackie, if you don't have a copy of the subject study why in the world did you reply?????  You know nothing!!!!  Please, I just asked a simple question about a link to the study on droplets staying in the air for an hour.  If you are so kind to ignore pappy's posts please ignore mine too.

 

Marc

Be careful, if you don’t agree with her or report facts or express opinions that are not complimentary to Regent, she will ban you for life. I think it is childish and ignorant to do so but explains a lot about her motives to “advertise” for Regent and be a spokesperson for Regent. After all she gets plenty of perks from Regent to do so. I am actually honored to be on her do not read list. 

[mrlevin]

1 hour ago, d9704011 said:

Try this....

 

ciaa939.pdf 627.79 kB · 7 downloads

 

Many thanks; this appears to be a recommendation by 229 scientists based on review of other studies and no original work of their own; now I will hunt down some of the more recent analyses that this is based on.

 

Marc

[fizzy]

I am continually astonished at the assumption that there will be crew members clamoring to get back on board anytime soon. I can't imagine what the personal decision would be like unless they were offered a pretty substantial pay incentive to give this restart a chance. I don't want to hear about how lucky they are to work for Regent( or any cruise  line) to care for their poor families at home. Enough time has passed that people from all professions have has to acclimate themselves to new employment realities and the uncertainty of this virus may not have staff ready to charge back in. This certainly isn't a business that would be considered essential right now.

[howiefrommd]

As a follow up to my previous post, this weekend I was speaking  to an Infectious Disease colleague and shared my post with her.  I should preface my comment with she has never been on or taken a cruise.  In fact, knowing her, she probably has never been on a vacation.

 

Her response to my post was that I really missed the main crux of the problem of cruise returning to service.   The first question was "how and where do the crew live on the ship?"   I have not been privy to see how the crew lives, but I have had explained to me by various staff members their living arrangements.  Once I shared this, it was like an alarm went off.  The congregate living that occurs is a fundamental problem in the world of COVID-19.  

 

The next issue was how would you isolate people suspected of or having COVID-19.  This is not like a Norovirus (which she reminded me we still do not have a vaccine/immunization for) this is an aerosolized virus.  This is not just telling someone to stay in their room.  It is conceptualized, that suspected positive/positive people would be in a separate distinct area.  

 

Once again, if the medical requirements as set forth in the April 15th CFR from CDC are codified, the cruise lines (big or small) face a herculean effort in trying to meet  those requirements.  The level of expertise required of physicians and nurses significantly changes.  

 

 

 

 

 

[pappy1022]

I found this study on the aerosol issue. It’s an area that is evolving as we learn more but it helps explain some outbreaks like the church choir practice earlier this year.

 https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC7293495/pdf/main.pdf

 

[howiefrommd]

This is why mask wearing is so important.  Unfortunately, it has turned into a political statement.  If we were all to wear masks and social distance, we could really get a handle on this disease.

 

Unfortunately, that bis the only tool in our arsenal at this time.  

 

 

[Got2Cruise]

2 hours ago, fizzy said:

I am continually astonished at the assumption that there will be crew members clamoring to get back on board anytime soon. I can't imagine what the personal decision would be like unless they were offered a pretty substantial pay incentive to give this restart a chance. I don't want to hear about how lucky they are to work for Regent( or any cruise  line) to care for their poor families at home. Enough time has passed that people from all professions have has to acclimate themselves to new employment realities and the uncertainty of this virus may not have staff ready to charge back in. This certainly isn't a business that would be considered essential right now.

Have you checked the world wide unemployment rate lately? 

[rallydave]

1 hour ago, howiefrommd said:

This is why mask wearing is so important.  Unfortunately, it has turned into a political statement.  If we were all to wear masks and social distance, we could really get a handle on this disease.

 

Unfortunately, that bis the only tool in our arsenal at this time.  

 

 

Thank you howie for the real story from an expert in the field rather than the positive no matter what posts.  It's really great to get factual information from someone on the front lines.

 

Plus nice to see the true story that just because a ship is "luxury" with fewer customers things will be quite different.  After all the smaller numbers of passengers are in conjunction with smaller ships.  Really doubt there is a lot of difference in the sq ft or tons per passenger no mater the category of the ship.  Keeping a 6 ft distance between people requires a lot more space than what is available on a "luxury" ship"  Yes, the cabins/suites are a lot bigger however the area outside the cabin/suite would need to be huge to get the 6 foot bubble around every passenger/crew member..

Edited July 13, 2020 by rallydave

[fizzy]

20 minutes ago, Got2Cruise said:

Have you checked the world wide unemployment rate lately? 

Thank you for asking. I am currently sadly unemployed......because all of my clients are following the recommended protocols for non essential travel....as they should.

[Travelcat2]

1 hour ago, Got2Cruise said:

Have you checked the world wide unemployment rate lately? 

 

You are so right.  Regent crew members put food on their families tables because of their jobs onboard.  Crew members also know how Regent continually sanitizes their ships (as evidenced by crew members being onboard way too long before they could get home......... they did not get sick).  They need to work and would be far safer on a Regent ship than taking a job in a town/city where Covid could be rampant.

[greykitty]

IMO, it's also imperative for any cruise line, including Regent, to put crew health and safety at the forefront - not only as a responsible employer, but to aid in keeping all souls on board healthy.  I'm very curious to see how crew sleeping, eating and other recreational facilities are transformed due to COVID - especially when every sailing brings new and possibly infected passengers on board.

 

[fizzy]

I am personally glad to know that Regent employees work hard to support themselves and their families........just like the rest of us.

[Steve Q]

Below is a link to a WSJ article from today’s paper(I realize there is a paywall). The information is really quite startling. For instance, 69% of known positive Covid infections were among crew members. The Disney Wonder had 227 positive cases out of 750 crew members tested. That is not astonishing figure. The one conclusion I can draw is that it is going to much more difficult for cruises to begin again than we ever expected. The cruise lines can social distance the passengers to protect them, but 2/3rds of the infections are among the crew. I provided a few quotes below:

 

”More than two out of every three Covid-19 infections confirmed through testing, at 69%, involved crew members, according to the data released by the U.S. Centers for Disease Control and Prevention. An even larger percentage of cases of “Covid-like illness” involved ships’ employees, at 71%. Passengers, of course, were far more numerous than crew, early in the pandemic, but they were on ships for shorter periods.

 

Disney said it tested all crew members on the Wonder in early May, amounting to nearly 750 people, and that this widespread testing may partly explain the seemingly high number of positive cases on the ship, which the CDC pegged at 227.

Disney said more than half of the Wonder crew who tested positive had no symptoms, so without testing it wouldn’t have known these individuals needed to be isolated to protect other crew members. It said it hasn’t had any new infections on the Wonder since May.“

 

 

 

https://www.wsj.com/articles/covid-19-hits-cruise-ship-crews-hard-11594486510?mod=itp_wsj&ru=yahoo

[Travelcat2]

Interesting information.  Since I cannot open this article, kindly let me know when this outbreak took place on the Disney Wonder?  Since the article mentions passengers, I assume that it was prior to the "voluntary" cruise shut-down and also assume that masks were not worn and distancing wasn't practiced.  

 

I read somewhere on the CC Regent board that since there will be fewer passengers, there will be fewer crew members and the goal is to have a maximum of two crew members in each cabin.  This obviously would be easier to do on some ships than others.  

 

Whatever protocols are put in place for the crew will likely be stringent.  While the crew will likely have to get used to this and won't enjoy wearing a mask most of the time, they will also be happy to be working in a safe environment.

[howiefrommd]

I would defer to our infectious disease/epidemiology partners, but two sharing a room might be a recipe for disaster. 

[Kwaj girl]

2 minutes ago, howiefrommd said:

I would defer to our infectious disease/epidemiology partners, but two sharing a room might be a recipe for disaster. 

Yet, would those 2 not then become like a 'household' in term of sharing space like a family does in their home?  They then 'share' similar germs and become immune to each other in that regard, no?  Hust a thought....

[SusieQft]

3 hours ago, Travelcat2 said:

They need to work and would be far safer on a Regent ship than taking a job in a town/city where Covid could be rampant.

I agree with you, but only as long as there are absolutely no covid cases on the ship.  Once the virus is on board, they are probably at higher risk than in a town/city with a high infection rate, because they are in an enclosed indoor shared space nearly all the time, with no way to effectively remove themselves from that environment.  Ditto for the passengers.  Being on the ship would become a more important factor than the individual's behavior and choices.  On land, we can make choices to avoid or minimize risky situations, even in communities with a high infection rate.