NCL/RCL team to develop reopening plans for CDC

[flossie009]

2 hours ago, GrJ Berkshire said:

Will Regent and the cruise lines have the "bottle" to refuse boarding to those without a vaccination certificate ?

Yes, they already reserve that right if customers do not carry the correct documentation on applicable cruises e.g. Visas, ESTAs, ETAs, YF Certificates.

This Guardian article is useful regarding the, IMO ill advised, anti-vaccination lobby on social media.

 

31 minutes ago, howiefrommd said:

In parts of the US, we have had breakouts of measles, mumps and rubella because of such anti-vaccination  issues. 

Same in the UK, partly because of a Doctor, since struck off, who was publishing unfounded scare stories about side effects from the MMR vaccine.

[RJ2002]

Regarding the article I posted from the Financial Times, given the focus of this publication and its audience, I'd suspect FDR's comments were made with revenue and earnings in mind - and the impact on them if ships had to sail with reduced capacity due to social distancing requirements.  Such a requirement, in my opinion, would be a bigger financial hit on the large mega ships, where ancillary sales are presumably a big factor in financial performance.  As an NCL stockholder myself, reduced sailing capacity is clearly a concern on a longer term basis (and of course, even in the short term as well).

 

I have seen reports that some restaurants are starting imposing COVID-19 related surcharges as a way to offset higher costs, and it certainly isn't conceivable that something like that might be adopted by some of the cruise lines.

[pappy1022]

14 hours ago, Travelcat2 said:

I would like to ask FDR (and I could - but won't) whether it is more important to cruise with less than a full ship and with social distancing than not sailing until a vaccine is available for everyone.  

 

It would be wise for FDR to address Regent's customers directly on this board or other media. That would put to rest many of the rumors and misinformation floating around. A nice Q&A session would work wonders to make their customers feel important and informed even if all of the questions can't be totally answered at this time. If you have the access to Frank as you imply that you do, give him a call. Or was this just braggadocious?

[fizzy]

13 minutes ago, pappy1022 said:

 

It would be wise for FDR to address Regent's customers directly on this board or other media. That would put to rest many of the rumors and misinformation floating around. A nice Q&A session would work wonders to make their customers feel important and informed even if all of the questions can't be totally answered at this time. 

It would certainly be the classy thing to do. Who cares who knows him? He's just a guy that runs a company who should be very grateful  for his client base. It sometimes seems as though he is held up to CC members as some sort of a deity. He works for his customers, hopefully, as it should be......not the other way around.

[Steve Q]

While the link below pertains specifically to Carnival, it does contain interesting information that applies to the other lines as well. Specifically, Aida will begin sailing shortly and can generate positive cash flow sailing at less than 50% capacity. That did surprise me. In addition the CEO of Carnival will be on CNBC today at 4:00PM, for those interested, to discuss the industry.

 

https://www.marketwatch.com/articles/carnival-stock-is-popping-today-heres-why-51594395651?mod=mw_latestnews

[RJ2002]

1 hour ago, RJ2002 said:

, and it certainly isn't conceivable that something like that might be adopted by some of the cruise lines.

 

*inconceivable

 

I do hope, though, that the lines don't adopt some sort of COVID-19 surcharge.

[Travelcat2]

10 minutes ago, RJ2002 said:

 

*inconceivable

 

I do hope, though, that the lines don't adopt some sort of COVID-19 surcharge.

 

It may be different where you live but restaurants in our city that are adding a surcharge (or are raising menu prices) are losing more business.  With so many people out of work, they are not going to pay extra money for dining in a restaurant.  OTOH, if they do not put the service charge on take-out, the restaurants will do a good take-out business.

 

In terms of cruise ships, I don't think that there will be a line item for a COVID-19 surcharge.  When the cruise lines did that with fuel charges, it was a bit of of a mess.  Like other included items, Regent could incorporate a surcharge within their cruise fare.  As most of us are seeing, prices for future cruises have gone up and will likely continue to do so.

[cruiseluv]

3 hours ago, pappy1022 said:

 

It would be wise for FDR to address Regent's customers directly on this board or other media. That would put to rest many of the rumors and misinformation floating around. A nice Q&A session would work wonders to make their customers feel important and informed even if all of the questions can't be totally answered at this time. If you have the access to Frank as you imply that you do, give him a call. Or was this just braggadocious?

I think that would be a great idea if he was prepared to answer  many of the questions that are bandied here. Based on his interview the other day on CNBC , it seems to me he doesnt have those answers, or he's not prepared to commit at this time. To have him just spouse platitudes and generalities wouldnt provide any value IMHO

[cruiseluv]

3 hours ago, fizzy said:

It would certainly be the classy thing to do. Who cares who knows him? He's just a guy that runs a company who should be very grateful  for his client base. It sometimes seems as though he is held up to CC members as some sort of a deity. He works for his customers, hopefully, as it should be......not the other way around.

He really works for his shareholders. Obviously, having happy customers is important

[Travelcat2]

3 hours ago, cruiseluv said:

I think that would be a great idea if he was prepared to answer  many of the questions that are bandied here. Based on his interview the other day on CNBC , it seems to me he doesnt have those answers, or he's not prepared to commit at this time. To have him just spouse platitudes and generalities wouldnt provide any value IMHO

 

Agree with you.  CEO's of NCLH, Carnival and RCG* do not know when cruising will resume, which protocols that will or will not be acceptable, etc.  And, if an announcement about Regent were made, it would be made by their CEO/President, Jason Montague - not Frank Del Rio.  

 

Having said that, FDR learned his lesson about posting on the Regent and Oceania board years ago.  He wisely no longer posts.  If he has something to say, there would likely be a Press Release.

 

*Read today that RCC changed their name to RCG (Royal Caribbean Group).  I also learned that Silversea is now 100% owned by RSG and the CEO of RCG is the former owner of Silversea.  

[Dolebludger]

On 7/6/2020 at 12:49 PM, Travelcat2 said:

I hope that they are looking at their various brands.  It was RCL that stated that they would still have buffets on their ships and had a photo of what appeared to be a buffet on one of their large ships.  It seems likely that protocols for ships with thousands of passengers (and less space per passenger) would have different protocols than the luxury lines (RCL's luxury brand is Silversea).  

 

The key here is whether or not the CDC will take it seriously since there have been a few articles (including ones posted on CC) that indicates a lack of cooperation from the CDC.

 

A very good suggestion about the different conditions on different lines and ships. I don't see how realistic guidelines can be developed without considering the space/passenger ratio of every line and ship.  For example, on Regent and Silversea one never finds himself in a crowd if Captain's reception and a few other events are avoided. On mass market and budget lines, one always finds himself in a crowd. And as crowds have been recognized as the #1 engine of virus spread, it should be obvious to anybody with cruising experience on various ships and lines that some require much remediation and the lux lines require little. I only hope the CDC recognizes that cruise lines and ships are not all the same!

[howiefrommd]

Although one would think that space/ratio should be different,  when you look at it in a public health concept, I am not sure how divergent the end process would be.  I have not cruised on Silversea, but have on Regent. 

 

Some  hurdles that come to mind are things such as,

 

Hallways.  If my memory serves me correctly, there are parts of the ship that are served by one common hallway.  In early discussions, the larger ships have been looking into one way hallways (such as some supermarkets have done).  Maintaining safe, appropriate social distancing would be quite difficult in a common shared hallways. 

 

Elevators. The published guidance regarding safe sharing in elevators  (in relation to COVID-19 safety precautions) seriously limits elevator usage.  Everything from occupancy (no more than 2 people in the average size elevator), to touch-less selection of floors, to continual ongoing sanitation. Granted, many utilize the stairs, but the people who must use elevators may be those of greater risk if exposed.

 

Dining.  Proper social distancing will be an amazing challenge.  CDC guidance in regards to who, when and how to social distance is challenging.  Unless you come onboard with someone you have had contact with for 14 days will preclude anyone from sharing a table.  Also, even though Regent is generous with space in the Compass Rose, with six feet distancing of tables, some  will have to be removed.  Additionally, many more tables for two will have to be facilitated.

 

Bars.  Another area were social distancing would be quite difficult.

 

Shows. Casino. Captains Reception, etc.   The tradition (I forgot the term) of meeting your neighbors and the staff goes around to each floor, wow is that a problem.

 

Embarkation and Disembarkation. Obviously embarkation can easily be done with staggered check in.   Disembarkation is another animal.  For some reason when a cruise ends, frequently people act like they are being released from prison.  

 

The biggest obstacle.  The level of medical skill and abilities that will be needed to meet the CDC's current guidance pursuant to the CFR April 15 publication.  

 

So what I am trying to say is that even though Regent (and other cruise lines with have high passenger/space ratios) will still have a herculean task ahead. 

 

[pappy1022]

This is a headline I saw today that says a lot about the future of travel, “Travel news: Greece considers second lockdown after tourists bring spike of cases”.  We see the same reaction in other countries like New Zealand in an attempt to keep their people as safe as possible. It won’t matter if the country you want to visit is looking good as far as COVID outbreaks if significant outbreaks are still going on in other parts of the world.

[Dolebludger]

I doubt that anybody thinks lines like Regent and Silversea will have an easy time providing distancing onboard. But they will have a possible situation compared to the likes of NCL and RCI. Granted, some events will have to go, and some little-used areas (like casinos) may have to be converted to dining or bar areas. Lux lines may even have to have lower capacity limits a bit. 

 

On a recent pre-pandemic music cruise we were on the NCL Pearl. We knew what to expect, so we splurged for a suite in The Haven, which had big windows overlooking the pool deck. We were able to see moving mobs of people even when they were not gathering for a concert. It is hard to see how a ship like that could achieve anything like the distancing required of our local restaurants, without reducing passenger capacity to around 25%! 

 

Of course, we don't yet know what kind of rules the CDC will impose on cruise ships, and I am assuming they will mirror those of land facilities. That may not be the case, as the CDC hasn't imposed such rules on airlines, as United and American are again booking the middle seat in their sardine-can economy section. But if rules similar to our local restaurants are not imposed on cruise lines, the lines will face another problem. Many of us just won't go!

Edited July 12, 2020 by Dolebludger

[Wendy The Wanderer]

59 minutes ago, Dolebludger said:

Of course, we don't yet know what kind of rules the CDC will impose on cruise ships, and I am assuming they will mirror those of land facilities. That may not be the case, as the CDC hasn't imposed such rules on airlines, as United and American are again booking the middle seat in their sardine-can economy section. But if rules similar to our local restaurants are not imposed on cruise lines, the lines will face another problem. Many of us just won't go!

 

I'm at loss why our governments aren't finding a way for airlines to keep those middle seats empty.  I'm guessing it's the powerful lobby that exists for this industry.  It's happening here in Canada too.

[Travelcat2]

Regent is apparently already capacity controlling their sailings - at least for this year.  This will make distancing easier.  

 

I do not think that CDC guidelines for cruise ships will resemble what is in place for airlines or even hotels.  On airplanes, one is forced to sit within 6’ of others (in some cases and on some airlines).  However, it is for a limited time and the air purifiers are only covering a small area (comparing cruise ships to an airplane).  Hotels have people coming and going ...... not necessarily dining at the hotel.  Their challenges are also different than a cruise line when there are up to 750 passengers and 550 crew members onboard 24/7  (except when in port).  On some itineraries, they do not leave the ship for several days.

 

One slight concern that I have is that many passengers will not have read the protocols and changes that will be in place when we are able to resume sailing.  in my opinion, passengers not only need as much information as possible but should sign a document stating that they have read, understand and will abide by the rules.  Of course, this does not mean that everyone will read it but a copy of the signed document could be placed in suites if necessary.

 

 

 

 

[wristband]

Frank Del Rio: "We Always Sail With Full Ship"...

"There is no way these cruise lines will collect billions of dollars in income or the CEO’s will receive tens of millions of dollars in compensation each year with their ships half or a quarter filled.  That’s why when the so-called “Healthy Panel” comes out with its protocols next month, there will be no mention of reduced occupancy. The CEO’s will try and pack their ships with as many paying passengers as their ships will hold."

 

https://www.cruiselawnews.com/2020/07/articles/disease/we-always-sail-with-full-ships-cruise-ceos-del-rio-and-fain-show-their-true-colors/

 

Many of us here remember FDR and other execs as everyday passengers on NCL in order to be accessible.

 

I'm curious.  Hey Frank - will you and NCL execs be onboard for the first Oceania & Regent sailings?

 

Full ships,  crowded elevators & tenders, full dining venues, full tables for safety drills...and NO MASKS! 

 

Title this chapter: "the end of the cruise industry."

[CBWIR]

20 minutes ago, wristband said:

Frank Del Rio: "We Always Sail With Full Ship"...

"There is no way these cruise lines will collect billions of dollars in income or the CEO’s will receive tens of millions of dollars in compensation each year with their ships half or a quarter filled.  That’s why when the so-called “Healthy Panel” comes out with its protocols next month, there will be no mention of reduced occupancy. The CEO’s will try and pack their ships with as many paying passengers as their ships will hold."

 

https://www.cruiselawnews.com/2020/07/articles/disease/we-always-sail-with-full-ships-cruise-ceos-del-rio-and-fain-show-their-true-colors/

 

Many of us here remember FDR and other execs as everyday passengers on NCL in order to be accessible.

 

I'm curious.  Hey Frank - will you and NCL execs be onboard for the first Oceania & Regent sailings?

 

Full ships,  crowded elevators & tenders, full dining venues, full tables for safety drills...and NO MASKS! 

 

Title this chapter: "the end of the cruise industry."

Complete BS by an ambulance chasing attorney.

[jeb_bud]

It’s good to see posters referencing objective, impartial reports to support their positions. /sarc/

[Travelcat2]

55 minutes ago, wristband said:

Frank Del Rio: "We Always Sail With Full Ship"...

"There is no way these cruise lines will collect billions of dollars in income or the CEO’s will receive tens of millions of dollars in compensation each year with their ships half or a quarter filled.  That’s why when the so-called “Healthy Panel” comes out with its protocols next month, there will be no mention of reduced occupancy. The CEO’s will try and pack their ships with as many paying passengers as their ships will hold."

 

https://www.cruiselawnews.com/2020/07/articles/disease/we-always-sail-with-full-ships-cruise-ceos-del-rio-and-fain-show-their-true-colors/

 

Many of us here remember FDR and other execs as everyday passengers on NCL in order to be accessible.

 

I'm curious.  Hey Frank - will you and NCL execs be onboard for the first Oceania & Regent sailings?

 

Full ships,  crowded elevators & tenders, full dining venues, full tables for safety drills...and NO MASKS! 

 

Title this chapter: "the end of the cruise industry."

 

It seems that articles and interviews are being intermingled into "new" articles that do not really contain anything new.  Frank Del Rio has said many times that he runs full ships.  That is what he does ....... fill the ships (using various methods to do so).  FDR has also said (recently) that NCLH ships will follow whatever protocols are required. In the same interview, he said that masks will likely be required (as well as distancing and other measures).

 

Obviously CEO's do not want to take a "hit" by sailing 50% full (or whatever is determined by the CDC).  They have no choice.

 

I have no idea why you wonder if FDR will be onboard for the first sailings of the three brands.  That is up to each brand's CEO's.  Jason Montague has indicated that he will be on the first sailing (although it may depend upon when that occurs).  You would have to check the NCL and Oceania boards to see if their CEO's have made any statements on this topic.

 

This has been discussed so many times already.  Tenders can run half full - restaurants can seat passengers in restaurants and lounges while maintaining social distancing.  Most able bodied passengers will take the stairs.  At least at first, there may be a need to do two musters (a pain but doable).

 

I guess that some people look at this as the "end of the cruise industry" while others look at it as the beginning of a new era - not only for cruising but flying, working remotely, having schools online, etc.  

 

The world has been hit with a huge blow.  We an go and hide in a cave or continue to live the best life that we can - keeping ourselves and others as safe as we can.

 

P.S.  I think that we need to take articles with a grain of salt.  A huge book could be written about how many "facts" have been reported on television, the internet and in articles and were then reversed.  Even those of us on CC may have seen things one way three months ago and now feel differently.  So, if FDR changed his mind, he is in good company (along with the CDC, WHO, and many governments around the world).

Edited July 12, 2020 by Travelcat2

[Dolebludger]

Yes, the articles and interviews are confusing, and opinions and allegations seem to change with time! It is my opinion (and nothing more) that Regent should  be allowed to sail fairly full with some elimination of events and some interior changes. I know I would much rather be aboard Regent (with no changes) than fly on an airline, as they are being to operate right now with no changes and they have been seriously overcrowded for several decades.. NCL and the like, however, would seem to be in need of significant “de-crowding” before being allowed to resume. If the pandemic requires that people stay out of crowds (which it does) I hope the CDC will recognize that cruise lines and ships have long been very different in this regard.

[pappy1022]

4 hours ago, Travelcat2 said:

 

restaurants can seat passengers in restaurants and lounges while maintaining social distancing.  

The latest understanding of COVID-19 is that aerosol particles (the small particles) remain in the air for hours, so the person(s) that were at your table or stood in line to get seated could have released the virus just by talking and then along comes the next person(s) to sit down for dinner at the same table or near that table and they could inhale the aerosol particles. It’s a tough challenge to overcome if the particles are in the air long after the person releases them.

[mrlevin]

13 minutes ago, pappy1022 said:

The latest understanding of COVID-19 is that aerosol particles (the small particles) remain in the air for hours, so the person(s) that were at your table or stood in line to get seated could have released the virus just by talking and then along comes the next person(s) to sit down for dinner at the same table or near that table and they could inhale the aerosol particles. It’s a tough challenge to overcome if the particles are in the air long after the person releases them.

 

Pappy, I have seen that headline but I haven't seen the study; do you have a link to the actual study; I would like to read it and review the data.

 

thanks,

 

Marc

[Travelcat2]

7 minutes ago, mrlevin said:

 

Pappy, I have seen that headline but I haven't seen the study; do you have a link to the actual study; I would like to read it and review the data.

 

thanks,

 

Marc

 

In this case, I'm glad that you quoted pappy's post as I cannot see them (my choice).  There are many articles on this subject (of course, one does not know which ones to believe).  One must also consider that a dining room table will be disinfected in between guests (just as they are in restaurants now).  If the risk is as bad as some posters make it sound, the issue would be the same in every restaurant that is currently open as well as in other areas.  

 

One thing that isn't mentioned much is shoes.  One article did mention the virus in the air ending up on the ground/floor that we walk on.  We then walk into our homes.  While we have not worn shoes in our home in years, we now remove them and spray the soles before entering the house.  

[mrlevin]

Jackie, if you don't have a copy of the subject study why in the world did you reply?????  You know nothing!!!!  Please, I just asked a simple question about a link to the study on droplets staying in the air for an hour.  If you are so kind to ignore pappy's posts please ignore mine too.

 

Marc