Not good news

[Tapi]

6 hours ago, KnowTheScore said:

This is simply wishful thinking.... 

If you wait until someone shows symptoms and then test them then you will have missed up to 5 days or more of that person spreading the virus around....

 

It may be wishful thinking, but I humbly don’t think that anybody will truly know if it is or not until these practices are put to the test on cruise ships for an extended period of time. 
 

I do believe in a multi-layered approach to control the spread of Covid, not only on a cruise ship, but on everything that we do every single day. And I believe in this approach because I’ve seen it at work in my industry since the beginning of the pandemic. So far, it’s proven to be very effective. 
 

In a nutshell, one single procedure doesn’t stop Covid. But the cumulative effect of multiple procedures does get us close enough to that goal. Someone may test positive, but if all other barriers are in place (masks, physical distance, heightened hygiene practices, etc) then Covid can be prevented from spreading. 

Still, you may be right and my train of thought may be along the lines of wishful thinking. But until some time goes by with these procedures applied to cruise ships, neither one of us will really know. 

 

Edited September 30, 2020 by Tapi

[crazyank]

12 hours ago, KnowTheScore said:

 

This is simply wishful thinking.   The problem here is that unless you test EVERY passenger and EVERY crew member EVERY DAY of the voyage then Covid cases on-board will spread.   If you wait until someone shows symptoms and then test them then you will have missed up to 5 days or more of that person spreading the virus around.  With 80% of Covid cases have absolutely no symptoms at all then the frequency of testing is of paramount importance.       Quarantining an infected person clearly needs to happen but by then it's likely far too late and that person or persons will have already been spreading the virus to others.

 

There's just no answer to this unless you are constantly testing all passengers and crew every 5 mins which leads to a pretty horrible experience on-board.   There's only so much throat and nasal swabbing that people will endure imo.

 

I would be very surprised if there are not further cases appearing in this current situation.

 

There is presumably some magic number that the cruise lines have been given which changes their protocols from simply isolating the Covid positive people to quarantining every passenger on the ship ala Diamond Princess.

 

I'm sorry but just now this whole thing is a non starter.   Passengers have simply become cattle to be poked and prodded and constantly tested and pushed around if they get Covid.   add to that the constant need for mask wearing when walking around the ship and doing activities, being forced to take ship excursions if you want to get off and god knows what other inconveniences that they haven't yet told us about and for me that is not a holiday.  It's something else and most certainly not a cruise in my book.    

 

Cruising remains totally dead imo and will stay that way until the virus is treated like Norovirus.

 

Fear mongering at it's best.

[Toofarfromthesea]

I absolutely understand why some people are not going to cruise until a number things happen

 

What I don't understand is why every purported negative thing, accurate or not is embraced, almost with glee.  And anything purported to be a positive development is poo-pooed.  As justification why NO ONE should cruise.

If you don't feel comfortable cruising, don't.  If you feel comfortable cruising, and cruises are available, do so.

It really is as simple as that

[ColeThornton]

6 minutes ago, Toofarfromthesea said:

I absolutely understand why some people are not going to cruise until a number things happen

 

What I don't understand is why every purported negative thing, accurate or not is embraced, almost with glee.  And anything purported to be a positive development is poo-pooed.  As justification why NO ONE should cruise.

If you don't feel comfortable cruising, don't.  If you feel comfortable cruising, and cruises are available, do so.

It really is as simple as that

 

 

Different people have different opinions, not all of them on either side will be popular.   It's the Doom and Gloomers versus the Sunshine Pumpers.   Personally, at this point I barely gloss over most of the posts anymore since most opinions have been repeated over and over and over.....

 

There is also a few posters who I just ignore.   🙂

[mayleeman]

Seems to me if all the security, limited access, protocols and constant testing in the White House couldn't protect the President and FLady, the prospects for a highly crowded environment like a cruise ship to successfully avoid a breakout seem quite remote.

[CruiserBruce]

1 hour ago, mayleeman said:

Seems to me if all the security, limited access, protocols and constant testing in the White House couldn't protect the President and FLady, the prospects for a highly crowded environment like a cruise ship to successfully avoid a breakout seem quite remote.

Of course, there was little or no mask wearing, little or no avoiding of large groups of people, and little social distancing...which are the main activities to stop the spread. Testing just monitors the spread, and hopefully prevents it when its discovered.

[ontheweb]

40 minutes ago, CruiserBruce said:

Of course, there was little or no mask wearing, little or no avoiding of large groups of people, and little social distancing...which are the main activities to stop the spread. Testing just monitors the spread, and hopefully prevents it when its discovered.

Yes, it should not be surprising with all the flouting of the protocols that this happened, maybe that it only took so long to occur.

 

I guess science won out in the end.

Edited October 2, 2020 by ontheweb
added second paragraph

[clo]

2 hours ago, ontheweb said:

Yes, it should not be surprising with all the flouting of the protocols that this happened, maybe that it only took so long to occur.

 

I guess science won out in the end.

I'm guessing the the Oct. 31 deadline is now going out to February.

[Toofarfromthesea]

6 hours ago, mayleeman said:

Seems to me if all the security, limited access, protocols and constant testing in the White House couldn't protect the President and FLady, the prospects for a highly crowded environment like a cruise ship to successfully avoid a breakout seem quite remote.

 

And yet a number of cruises have already sailed without an outbreak.  So maybe not that remote after all.

[cruisemom42]

42 minutes ago, Toofarfromthesea said:

 

And yet a number of cruises have already sailed without an outbreak.  So maybe not that remote after all.

 

It would be more accurate to say that a very small number of cruises have taken place since the "No Sail" order (and/or various other country bans); fewer than 1% of the existing cruise fleet has restarted. And they have not exactly sailed COVID-free:

 

• Hurtigruten had major COVID outbreak on board in late July that was handled poorly.
• Aida Cruises had to cancel their planned mini-cruises on the Baltic Sea for the first half of August because 11 crew members became infected with COVID.
• A passenger on French cruise company Ponant’s Paul Gauguin cruise ship tested positive for the virus and the ship’s passengers and crew were quarantined on board.

[navybankerteacher]

On 9/30/2020 at 12:21 PM, ColeThornton said:

 

 

Different people have different opinions, not all of them on either side will be popular.   It's the Doom and Gloomers versus the Sunshine Pumpers.   Personally, at this point I barely gloss over most of the posts anymore since most opinions have been repeated over and over and over.....

 

There is also a few posters who I just ignore.   🙂

Of course recent experience has shown that in places where the “Sunshine Pumpers” have most credibility there is more contagion - and places with the “Doom and Gloomers”  in charge seem able to show better results at containment.

[jtwind]

Back on the original subject, everything that I had read from sites like Harvard Medical School and Johns Hopkins say that false positives are almost impossible.  I hope someone is taking a very serious look at what happened.  At this point, it seems to me that it was more likely that all of the follow up tests were false negatives.

 

If you test enough times, using procedures that are known to give false negatives, eventually you'll get a negative.

[rkacruiser]

11 hours ago, ontheweb said:

I guess science won out in the end.

 

In your mind and mine, it did.  But, what will the "spin" be?  

[ontheweb]

6 hours ago, cruisemom42 said:

 

It would be more accurate to say that a very small number of cruises have taken place since the "No Sail" order (and/or various other country bans); fewer than 1% of the existing cruise fleet has restarted. And they have not exactly sailed COVID-free:

 

• Hurtigruten had major COVID outbreak on board in late July that was handled poorly.
• Aida Cruises had to cancel their planned mini-cruises on the Baltic Sea for the first half of August because 11 crew members became infected with COVID.
• A passenger on French cruise company Ponant’s Paul Gauguin cruise ship tested positive for the virus and the ship’s passengers and crew were quarantined on board.

You are pointing out incidents that many want to pretend never happened. I posted just the Hurtigruten one in response to a similar post, and was told that that happened "ages ago".😒

[cruisemom42]

11 minutes ago, ontheweb said:

You are pointing out incidents that many want to pretend never happened. I posted just the Hurtigruten one in response to a similar post, and was told that that happened "ages ago".😒

 

The Internet has a very short memory. 

[clo]

1 hour ago, ontheweb said:

You are pointing out incidents that many want to pretend never happened. I posted just the Hurtigruten one in response to a similar post, and was told that that happened "ages ago".😒

Anecdote. We cruised Hurtigruten twice. First to Antarctica and then their Norwegian coastal cruise. And had a third short one booked. It got canceled and we got a full refund. But I gotta tell ya that from what I've read about how they handled it I can't imagine EVER cruising on them again.

[CPT Trips]

On 10/2/2020 at 7:50 PM, rkacruiser said:

 

In your mind and mine, it did.  But, what will the "spin" be?  

Spin=Inshallah

[rkacruiser]

54 minutes ago, CPT Trips said:

Spin=Inshallah

 

I understand what you are saying.