CDC

[ROYALBOY]

CDC: 'Defer All Cruise Travel'

 

October 26, 2020

With just days to go before the CDC's "No Sail" order is set to expire, the agency has issued a warning advising U.S. travelers to defer all cruise travel.

"CDC typically posts travel health notices for countries and other international destinations, not transportation, such as ships, airplanes, or trains. Because of the unprecedented nature of the novel coronavirus pandemic, and the increased risk of transmission of COVID-19 on cruise ships, the U.S. government is advising U.S. travelers to defer all cruise travel," the CDC said, in a Level 3 alert posted to its website.

[LGW59]

12 minutes ago, ROYALBOY said:

CDC: 'Defer All Cruise Travel'

 

October 26, 2020

With just days to go before the CDC's "No Sail" order is set to expire, the agency has issued a warning advising U.S. travelers to defer all cruise travel.

"CDC typically posts travel health notices for countries and other international destinations, not transportation, such as ships, airplanes, or trains. Because of the unprecedented nature of the novel coronavirus pandemic, and the increased risk of transmission of COVID-19 on cruise ships, the U.S. government is advising U.S. travelers to defer all cruise travel," the CDC said, in a Level 3 alert posted to its website.

Very interesting indeed.  Will be even more interesting to see how the cruise lines respond if the order is lifted.  Guess we need to buckle our seat belts...

[phoenix_dream]

Is this any different from what has been on their site all along, ever since March?  Has anything changed other than they added comments about extending the no sail date in September?  I'm not being snarky - I am asking for real.  My understanding is that we have been at a Level 3 alert since March.  Perhaps I am wrong?

[Welland]

Just trying to figure this out.   Could you please include a link or reference as to where this was posted on today's date, the date of your posting......October 26.

 

Checking the CDC site I see nothing that is recent.

 

Thank you.   Hope the tone of this message is appropriate.   Just would like to read the full article myself.      :-)   

[LGW59]

3 minutes ago, Welland said:

Just trying to figure this out.   Could you please include a link or reference as to where this was posted on today's date, the date of your posting......October 26.

 

Checking the CDC site I see nothing that is recent.

 

Thank you.   Hope the tone of this message is appropriate.   Just would like to read the full article myself.      🙂   

From cruise radio but seems they got it from CDC, but who knows for certain.

 

https://cruiseradio.net/cdc-issues-cruise-warning-no-sail-order-expire-oct-2020/

[twins_to_alaska]

I don't think this is new. They were warning against cruise travel back in March.

Edited October 26, 2020 by twins_to_alaska

[Jeremiah1212]

https://wwwnc.cdc.gov/travel/notices/warning/coronavirus-cruise-ship

 

The timestamp is at the end of the article, "Page last reviewed: October 21, 2020".

 

I don't think this is necessarily fresh information but a quick Google looks like it has been republished on various sites as if it is new. It's also simply a recommendation, and we know how well the public receives recommendations, so............

[Welland]

Thanks to LGW59 and Jeremiah 1212 for the info.

[Baron Barracuda]

Appears to just be an update to the march 9th bulletin.  Curious what changed from prior version.

[Arizona Wildcat]

This "news" release is as already said - not new.  The release is likely a product of the CDC wanting the no sail order extended to spring and the White House vetoing that decision.

 

[Algebralovr]

We already know that the CDC has it out for the cruise industry for some reason.  Total BS.

Im ready to sail.

[markeb]

Before people read too much into this, it’s fairly common for federal agencies to review their web pages on some schedule, and update the “Reviewed by Date”. Without making changes. Also common on regulations, etc.  Did anyone look in September or August? Was there also an updated review date? I don’t know, but expect yes as the background information includes changes to the no sail order dates. 
 

This is getting seen because the no sail order expires this week. If that expires, parts of this change, or more likely some sort of lesser advisory is issued. 

[RICCruisers]

7 minutes ago, Algebralovr said:

We already know that the CDC has it out for the cruise industry for some reason.  Total BS.

Im ready to sail.

I disagree with your statement that the CDC has it out for the cruise industry. The CDC is concerned for the health and safety of US citizens. They have absolutely no reason to have it out for the cruise industry. 

 

In my opinion, the cruise industry has still not provided a comprehensive plan for how they will handle a possible outbreak of Covid-19 onboard one of their ships. The X/NCL report was a lot of recommendations, but the companies did not specify their exact plans. Until they do, the CDC will likely continue to strongly recommend avoiding cruises or possibly extend the No Sail Order as long as the White House doesn’t overrule them. 

 

The reality is, most of us are ready to sail and each of us have our own comfort level on when that will be based on hearing the specific plans from each company. I have not seen anything from any company specifying what their plan is for cruising from the US. 

 

 

[LGW59]

24 minutes ago, Algebralovr said:

We already know that the CDC has it out for the cruise industry for some reason.  Total BS.

Im ready to sail.

While I am so ready to sail, I do not believe they have it "out" for the cruise industry.  TBH in the past when there have been various outbreaks, the cruise industry has not handled it properly.  They definitely did not at the outset of COVID.  Not being argumentative, I see there are two sides to all of this.  I just everyone, the CDC, cruise industry and we passengers just collaborate together and do this right.         

[nocl]

5 hours ago, phoenix_dream said:

Is this any different from what has been on their site all along, ever since March?  Has anything changed other than they added comments about extending the no sail date in September?  I'm not being snarky - I am asking for real.  My understanding is that we have been at a Level 3 alert since March.  Perhaps I am wrong?

It has certainly been updated since it includes references to the extensions.  One media site indicated that the two changes was raising it from a 2 to a level 3.  As well as the inclusion of the state department warning as well.  That Americans should not count of repatriation fights if an issue were to occur.

[ECCruise]

11 hours ago, Algebralovr said:

We already know that the CDC has it out for the cruise industry for some reason.  Total BS.

Im ready to sail.

You are gonna need to buy a sailboat, because even if YOU are "ready to sail," the cruise lines are not.

 

Unlike some pax, the cruise lines realize that if they would start now and have any type of outbreak similar to those in March, cruising is over.   Forever.

[phoenix_dream]

10 hours ago, nocl said:

It has certainly been updated since it includes references to the extensions.  One media site indicated that the two changes was raising it from a 2 to a level 3.  As well as the inclusion of the state department warning as well.  That Americans should not count of repatriation fights if an issue were to occur.

I think it was already a level 3 but I can't say that for sure.  I do know that the repatriation thing was already in there.  I think primarily they just added the extensions and perhaps the state department warning..

 

As to others comments about the CDC "having it in" for the cruise industry, I think there is some merit to that comment although I think having it in is a little strong.  I would say they are singling them out for multiple reasons.  First reason, because they can.  It makes them look strong and authoritative to be able to control the entire US based sailing component.  They have no authority over making changes in the US, but here they can show their muscle.  Second, I think there is a lot of PR involved.  Because of the nature of their business, the cruise lines got huge and very negative press at the beginning of the pandemic.  I think that also really reflected badly on the CDC as the US public likely thinks the CDC should have had better control of that, rightly or wrongly - truth matters little to the media these days.  The third reason is, I think, political.  I am not getting into which side is right or wrong, but the facts are there is a very good chance that the party in the presidency will change soon.  The CDC, IMHO, wants to straddle that middle ground until they see which way the winds are blowing.  If they are too lenient, or take too hard a stand, they will p**s off one side of the fence or another.  I think they are biding their time and in the meantime holding the cruise lines hostage.

[gerelmx]

is clearly stated in the document: This notice was originally posted March 17, 2020. Page last reviewed: October 21, 2020

https://wwwnc.cdc.gov/travel/notices/warning/coronavirus-cruise-ship

[Life Buoy]

Heard a discussion yesterday on CNBC as the cruise line stock was falling. They concluded that the election results might have a real affect on when we can start to cruise. Originally the CDC wanted a later start date, but was overruled. I won't say more.

[Jeremiah1212]

The politicalization of the HHS, CDC and science in general is one issue in itself, but the cruise lines are not free from blame here. They definitely appear to have taken a 'wait it out and see' approach which is not working. 

[nocl]

1 hour ago, phoenix_dream said:

I think it was already a level 3 but I can't say that for sure.  I do know that the repatriation thing was already in there.  I think primarily they just added the extensions and perhaps the state department warning..

 

As to others comments about the CDC "having it in" for the cruise industry, I think there is some merit to that comment although I think having it in is a little strong.  I would say they are singling them out for multiple reasons.  First reason, because they can.  It makes them look strong and authoritative to be able to control the entire US based sailing component.  They have no authority over making changes in the US, but here they can show their muscle.  Second, I think there is a lot of PR involved.  Because of the nature of their business, the cruise lines got huge and very negative press at the beginning of the pandemic.  I think that also really reflected badly on the CDC as the US public likely thinks the CDC should have had better control of that, rightly or wrongly - truth matters little to the media these days.  The third reason is, I think, political.  I am not getting into which side is right or wrong, but the facts are there is a very good chance that the party in the presidency will change soon.  The CDC, IMHO, wants to straddle that middle ground until they see which way the winds are blowing.  If they are too lenient, or take too hard a stand, they will p**s off one side of the fence or another.  I think they are biding their time and in the meantime holding the cruise lines hostage.

I do believe the demonstrated transmission rates on cruise ships prior to the outbreak, coupled with the wide spread cases among the crew during the shutdown has more than a little to do with it.

 

As the CDC stated in one presentation the R0 that occured on cruise ships prior to the shutdown, was the highest seen.

Exceeding that of people living in the same household.

[ROYALBOY]

17 hours ago, Welland said:

Just trying to figure this out.   Could you please include a link or reference as to where this was posted on today's date, the date of your posting......October 26.

 

Checking the CDC site I see nothing that is recent.

 

Thank you.   Hope the tone of this message is appropriate.   Just would like to read the full article myself.      🙂   

[phoenix_dream]

2 hours ago, nocl said:

I do believe the demonstrated transmission rates on cruise ships prior to the outbreak, coupled with the wide spread cases among the crew during the shutdown has more than a little to do with it.

 

As the CDC stated in one presentation the R0 that occured on cruise ships prior to the shutdown, was the highest seen.

Exceeding that of people living in the same household.

I think there is merit in what you say.  At the same time, very early on in the pandemic no one knew what the heck they were doing.  This made it very difficult for an entity with so much public exposure.  I'm probably not explaining myself well.  Consider for a minute norovirus (and to be clear - I am not comparing this virus to norovirus).  Norovirus has become known in the media as "the cruise ship virus".  Why is that?  Because cruise ships have so many more cases per population than other venues?  Not at all.  The opposite is true.  It's because they are required to report their illnesses when the percentage reaches a certain level (and that level is pretty low - I think it is 3% ?).  So what happens - the CDC finds out about outbreaks, the media gets the word, and next thing you know people consider cruise ships floating petri dishes.  I know people who, pre-Covid, were afraid to cruise because of all the media hoopla.  It was totally unwarranted.  I think a similar thing is happening with Covid.  Because of their uniqueness and because of how no one - cruise lines CEO's, CDC, government officials - knew how to handle things they certainly did get out of hand for awhile.  

[Arizona Wildcat]

13 minutes ago, phoenix_dream said:

I think there is merit in what you say.  At the same time, very early on in the pandemic no one knew what the heck they were doing.  This made it very difficult for an entity with so much public exposure.  I'm probably not explaining myself well.  Consider for a minute norovirus (and to be clear - I am not comparing this virus to norovirus).  Norovirus has become known in the media as "the cruise ship virus".  Why is that?  Because cruise ships have so many more cases per population than other venues?  Not at all.  The opposite is true.  It's because they are required to report their illnesses when the percentage reaches a certain level (and that level is pretty low - I think it is 3% ?).  So what happens - the CDC finds out about outbreaks, the media gets the word, and next thing you know people consider cruise ships floating petri dishes.  I know people who, pre-Covid, were afraid to cruise because of all the media hoopla.  It was totally unwarranted.  I think a similar thing is happening with Covid.  Because of their uniqueness and because of how no one - cruise lines CEO's, CDC, government officials - knew how to handle things they certainly did get out of hand for awhile.  

You also have the crazy issue of who is responsible for handling COVID.  One can argue it is the state's because of the Constitutional limitations.  Then in my state while there is a state health department; regulations have historically been made on a county or city level.  Several lawsuits have gone through the courts and limited the ability of the Governor to regulate by executive orders.  Our legislature passed some legislation that helped and local governments have gotten on board with a mask policy.

Cruise lines have all levels of government to satisfy from cities on up to the CDC and HHS.  Since the March cruise shutdown was a total disaster seems "government" (whoever that might be) is leery of making a mistake in opening.

A local member of the House of Representatives suggested that depending on the election cruising will either resume in a meaningful manner - more than a few ships - either in January or not until after COVID vaccine is widely available.

[phoenix_dream]

7 hours ago, Jeremiah1212 said:

The politicalization of the HHS, CDC and science in general is one issue in itself, but the cruise lines are not free from blame here. They definitely appear to have taken a 'wait it out and see' approach which is not working. 

I don't understand what you mean by a "wait and see" approach?  They created a Healthy Sail panel which put together many (admittedly high level) recommendations for sailing.  I also believe, but couldn't prove at this point, that behind the scenes they are likely working like demons to try to get at least a couple of their ships ready to sail when the go-ahead is given.  I highly, highly doubt the CEOs would let their companies just wait and see.  Plans may fall through, but I would bet a whole lotta money on the fact that there is a ton of work being done behind the scenes.