Maybe Covid is the end of smoking in the casino?

[Earthworm Jim]

12 hours ago, HaveDogWillTravel said:

Please provide a link to this research. As a statistician, I have been very pleased with the easy access to all the original research papers. One of the major flaws I found in the first studies on Pfizer and Moderna  was the lack of testing for asymptotic cases among vaccinated participants.  Hence, the CDC recommendation to continue wearing masks after vaccination.  

 

It was just preliminary results indicating that is the case, at least for the Pfizer vaccine. According to this article, the research hasn't yet been published or peer reviewed. Though it is encouraging news as far as it goes, though not yet officially scientifically confirmed.

 

https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2021-02-21/pfizer-biontech-shot-stops-covid-s-spread-israeli-study-shows

 

But you probably already knew all that before you asked for research.

[Daniel A]

3 minutes ago, ontheweb said:

You only responded to the part of my post about cancer---none from second hand eating and drinking, but from second hand smoke. That was just to emphasize the main point of my post  that neither eating or drinking puts anything in the air while smoking does. You conveniently ignored the main point of my post.

 

Let us not forget that Covid is an AIRBORNE VIRUS.

I think you missed my point.  Since Covid is an airborne virus, thus we need to wear masks to stop the airborne spread, how does the act of removing ones mask for other activities such as eating, drinking and swimming get deemed to be safe but it's only unsafe if it's because somebody lights up?  What happens to mask wearing during exercise in the fitness room?  Do they ban exercise too?  Again, I wouldn't mind seeing a smoke free interior of the ships - I just don't think Covid mask requirements will accomplish it.

[Lady Arwen]

1 hour ago, Daniel A said:

I think you missed my point.  Since Covid is an airborne virus, thus we need to wear masks to stop the airborne spread, how does the act of removing ones mask for other activities such as eating, drinking and swimming get deemed to be safe but it's only unsafe if it's because somebody lights up?  What happens to mask wearing during exercise in the fitness room?  Do they ban exercise too?  Again, I wouldn't mind seeing a smoke free interior of the ships - I just don't think Covid mask requirements will accomplish it.

Because cigarette smoking causes you to heavily exhale (blow) smoke into the air and that smoke will contain droplets of saliva.  When you eat, you chew with your mouth closed, except to take bites, and drinking is  basically the same principle as eating.  Nobody is blowing food or beverages out of their mouth.  Mask wearing may be mandatory in the fitness room, but if not, they will arrange it to provide proper social distancing.  Cigarette smoke travels quite a distance,  even indoors. That’s the difference.

 

[Daniel A]

19 minutes ago, Lady Arwen said:

Because cigarette smoking causes you to heavily exhale (blow) smoke into the air and that smoke will contain droplets of saliva.  When you eat, you chew with your mouth closed, except to take bites, and drinking is  basically the same principle as eating.  Nobody is blowing food or beverages out of their mouth.  Mask wearing may be mandatory in the fitness room, but if not, they will arrange it to provide proper social distancing.  Cigarette smoke travels quite a distance,  even indoors. That’s the difference.

I'd be interested in seeing the data which shows exhaling cigarette smoke is more dangerous in relation to Covid spread than normal exhalation.  I've never seen a smoker do anything even remotely close to heavy breathing while exhaling smoke.  I'd also like to see the data that shows the virus is carried through the air in smoke.  For all we know, the smoke and chemicals in the smoke may kill the virus making cigarette smoke safer than normal exhalation.  I'm not claiming that to be the case, but how do we really know that what you're saying is true also?  Have you ever seen a person cough or sneeze or burst out in laughter while eating or drinking?  I have - on many occasions.  Again, I just don't see a no smoking ban to take place based on mere speculation that it is a dangerous transmitter of Covid.  I'm finished with discussing this, it gets us nowhere.

[c-boy]

Barry I think that the current regulations will suffice. No need for further restrictions to police clientele. 

[cr8tiv1]

16 hours ago, brisalta said:

If Princess banned smoking from the casino I might actually consider gambling in them.

I suspect they are losing some income by allowing smoking in the casino especially with cruises that originate in California.

 

I've noticed that the casino is often busier on non-smoking formal nights.  Hopefully, Princess will start this new policy when cruising begins.  The casino has had a year to clean out the smoke residues/smell.  I, for one, would like to see a no smoking casino.  Yes, I have seen people stop, light up, smoke, and leave without touching a slot machine.  Some ships even had sofas/lounge area for smokers.  That's what Churchill's is for.  

[Steelers36]

Smokers still go to restaurants and bars.  They still shop in stores.  They still work in offices (COVID WFH exceptions notwithstanding.  They will still gamble even if they cannot smoke while doing so.

[Earthworm Jim]

1 hour ago, cr8tiv1 said:

 

I've noticed that the casino is often busier on non-smoking formal nights.  Hopefully, Princess will start this new policy when cruising begins.  The casino has had a year to clean out the smoke residues/smell.  I, for one, would like to see a no smoking casino.  Yes, I have seen people stop, light up, smoke, and leave without touching a slot machine.  Some ships even had sofas/lounge area for smokers.  That's what Churchill's is for.  

 

I'm neither a smoker or a gambler, but Carnival tried the smoke free ship route with the Paradise between 1998 and 2004 and found it drove revenue down enough that they had to abandon the idea. It's seems people susceptible to one vice (smoking) were also susceptible to other vices which drive profit such as gambling and drinking. So a ship full of non-smokers wasn't nearly as profitable.

 

I'd prefer a smoke free ship, but unless there is reason to believe things have changed over the last 20 years i can't see the cruise lines going for it.

[Daniel A]

3 minutes ago, Earthworm Jim said:

I'd prefer a smoke free ship, but unless there is reason to believe things have changed over the last 20 years i can't see the cruise lines going for it.

I think they will eventually go to non-smoking, (except maybe the Asian market) I just don't think it will have anything to do with Covid.  

[Lady Arwen]

9 minutes ago, Earthworm Jim said:

 

I'm neither a smoker or a gambler, but Carnival tried the smoke free ship route with the Paradise between 1998 and 2004 and found it drove revenue down enough that they had to abandon the idea. It's seems people susceptible to one vice (smoking) were also susceptible to other vices which drive profit such as gambling and drinking. So a ship full of non-smokers wasn't nearly as profitable.

 

I'd prefer a smoke free ship, but unless there is reason to believe things have changed over the last 20 years i can't see the cruise lines going for it.

Well, I guess that Celebrity proves this to be wrong!  Their casinos are packed until the wee hours and there has been a fleet wide no indoor smoking policy for many years.  HAL implemented a non smoking policy in the casino on about half of the fleet and, again, the casino is busier than ever.  Things have changed a lot in 20 years, thank goodness.  The majority of folks do not want smoking in the casino and the cruiselines are listening.  Carnival may well be the last hold out.

Edited February 21, 2021 by Lady Arwen
Spell

[Thrak]

2 hours ago, Daniel A said:

'd be interested in seeing the data which shows exhaling cigarette smoke is more dangerous in relation to Covid spread than normal exhalation.  I've never seen a smoker do anything even remotely close to heavy breathing while exhaling smoke. 

 

I smoked for 20 years. (I've been tobacco free for almost 32 years. Quit my unfiltered Camels cold turkey.) I can say unequivocally that when I exhaled smoke it was more forceful than my "normal" exhale. My normal exhalations are quite calm in comparison to smoke exhalation.

[Lady Arwen]

22 minutes ago, Thrak said:

 

I smoked for 20 years. (I've been tobacco free for almost 32 years. Quit my unfiltered Camels cold turkey.) I can say unequivocally that when I exhaled smoke it was more forceful than my "normal" exhale. My normal exhalations are quite calm in comparison to smoke exhalation.

You are, of course, spot on!  You exhale air, you BLOW smoke.  I was a heavy smoker twenty+ years ago and I know the difference.  Thank you.  

[brisalta]

1 hour ago, Thrak said:

 

I smoked for 20 years. (I've been tobacco free for almost 32 years. Quit my unfiltered Camels cold turkey.) I can say unequivocally that when I exhaled smoke it was more forceful than my "normal" exhale. My normal exhalations are quite calm in comparison to smoke exhalation.

 

You are correct in your observations. I can smell tobacco smoke from 30 feet away. That would be the particulates in the smoke and a little vapor.  I suspect that virus particles could adhere to the larger smoke particles and travel a longer distance than those expelled by simple breathing.

 

[Lady Arwen]

10 minutes ago, brisalta said:

 

You are correct in your observations. I can smell tobacco smoke from 30 feet away. That would be the particulates in the smoke and a little vapor.  I suspect that virus particles could adhere to the larger smoke particles and travel a longer distance than those expelled by simple breathing.

 

Agree 100%

[c-boy]

why is there a conversation of ... "  I suspect that virus particles could adhere to the larger smoke particles and travel a longer distance than those expelled by simple breathing."

 

  If your onboard a cruise ship in the near future the crew and yourselves will have been vaccinated.

 

[ontheweb]

5 hours ago, Daniel A said:

I'd be interested in seeing the data which shows exhaling cigarette smoke is more dangerous in relation to Covid spread than normal exhalation.  I've never seen a smoker do anything even remotely close to heavy breathing while exhaling smoke.  I'd also like to see the data that shows the virus is carried through the air in smoke.  For all we know, the smoke and chemicals in the smoke may kill the virus making cigarette smoke safer than normal exhalation.  I'm not claiming that to be the case, but how do we really know that what you're saying is true also?  Have you ever seen a person cough or sneeze or burst out in laughter while eating or drinking?  I have - on many occasions.  Again, I just don't see a no smoking ban to take place based on mere speculation that it is a dangerous transmitter of Covid.  I'm finished with discussing this, it gets us nowhere.

WOW! "For all we know smoke may kill the virus." Wasn't there once a Woody Allen movie where he wakes up in the future and discovers that everything we thought was unhealthy was really good for you and vice versa?

 

Have enough people now told you that they expel smoke with heavier breathing than normal to convince you that the smoke travels? So, social distance while eating with your mask off  6 feet; social distance way, way longer than that as you smoke with your mask off.

 

And your comparison to eating is ridiculous. If you never eat, you die. If you never smoke, you live longer (unless you are always getting more than your fair share of second hand smoke.)

[Daniel A]

1 hour ago, ontheweb said:

So, social distance while eating with your mask off  6 feet; social distance way, way longer than that as you smoke with your mask off.

 

And your comparison to eating is ridiculous. If you never eat, you die. If you never smoke, you live longer (unless you are always getting more than your fair share of second hand smoke.)

It's only that you can smell and see the smoke particles in the air around you.  Can you really smell or see if you are inhaling Corona virus particles from any distance at all?  This whole discussion is founded on a desire to ban smoking because of the threat of spreading Corona virus.  Is anybody else just a wee bit concerned about all of the people who aren't "letting a good disaster go to waste?"  What else do we not like that we can look to ban and blame it on Corona virus without any scientific evidence at all?  There's way too many politicians already thinking up those ways.  Shall we ban Lions Club meetings because of the Corona virus but permit Rotary Meetings because we like them?  You can't have it both ways - let's ban the smelly smoke and blame the ban on unfounded infection rates from second hand smoke, but let's still have our cocktails and banquet style meals because we still like those so that makes them safe.  The hypocrisy is glaring.  And I'm not even a smoker!  I just believe in being honest and not looking to take advantage of a pandemic for my own personal preferences.  If it makes you all feel better that a ban on smoking in the casinos will protect you from getting Covid then go ahead and believe that.  

Edited February 22, 2021 by Daniel A

[caribill]

9 hours ago, Lady Arwen said:

The majority of folks do not want smoking in the casino and the cruiselines are listening. 

 

It would not be a cruise if the cruise lines eliminated everything that only a minority of passengers want.

a) A majority do not do Zumba.

b) A majority do not use the gym.

c) A majority do not play trivia.

d) A majority do not use the pools.

e) A majority do not use the Sanctuary.

etc.

 

[ontheweb]

10 hours ago, Daniel A said:

It's only that you can smell and see the smoke particles in the air around you.  Can you really smell or see if you are inhaling Corona virus particles from any distance at all?  This whole discussion is founded on a desire to ban smoking because of the threat of spreading Corona virus.  Is anybody else just a wee bit concerned about all of the people who aren't "letting a good disaster go to waste?"  What else do we not like that we can look to ban and blame it on Corona virus without any scientific evidence at all?  There's way too many politicians already thinking up those ways.  Shall we ban Lions Club meetings because of the Corona virus but permit Rotary Meetings because we like them?  You can't have it both ways - let's ban the smelly smoke and blame the ban on unfounded infection rates from second hand smoke, but let's still have our cocktails and banquet style meals because we still like those so that makes them safe.  The hypocrisy is glaring.  And I'm not even a smoker!  I just believe in being honest and not looking to take advantage of a pandemic for my own personal preferences.  If it makes you all feel better that a ban on smoking in the casinos will protect you from getting Covid then go ahead and believe that.  

Give it up. I thought you did say you were done with this discussion. You can see the exhalation of the smoke, but any corona virus in the expanded exhalation immediately disappears according to science according to Daniel.

 

They immediately at the beginning of the pandemic abandoned self serve buffets. And to stop the spread of norovirus, that is probably a good thing, but it really has no effect on an airborne virus. But you would continue something that we all know is airborne.

 

And the smoke lingers in the air, Maybe you could allow smoking, but increase social distancing to way, way more than 6 feet.

[AliceS]

5 hours ago, caribill said:

 

It would not be a cruise if the cruise lines eliminated everything that only a minority of passengers want.

a) A majority do not do Zumba.

b) A majority do not use the gym.

c) A majority do not play trivia.

d) A majority do not use the pools.

e) A majority do not use the Sanctuary.

etc.

 

None of these things impact the health of others.

[Lady Arwen]

15 minutes ago, AliceS said:

None of these things impact the health of others.

Obviously, you are correct.  I’ve given up reasoning with folks who have no common sense.  Comparing cigarette smoking to Zumba classes is beyond ridiculous.  This thread has become the typical “smoking/no smoking” discussion and “for that reason, I’m out”!

[c-boy]

Edited February 22, 2021 by c-boy

[greenie082756]

If Covid affects the ability to change casinos on a ship to always no smoking then I am all for it.

 

I am an ex-smoker and even as a smoker I really did not care for how it lingered and stunk.

I quite 10 years ago and could not be happier.

 

Just not having the smell lingering in the casino would be beneficial to players, employees, equipment (machines and tables), furniture and carpeting.

 

It is not like there is not other places to go to exhale on a cruise ship. 

 

I do hope the cruise lines take advantage of the current situation and make it permanent on ships.

 

Just my 2 cents 😊

[Steelers36]

4 minutes ago, greenie082756 said:

Just my 2 cents 😊

Oh, I think it was worth at least 99 cents.

[mcrcruiser]

Hoping that Princess stops the smoking in their casinos  for health reasons .   To get that smell out they just can't do deep cleaning ,it will take replacing all the upholstery & any other items that retain that   smoke odor