Per Michael Bayley, Some CSO Updates

[smokeybandit]

21 minutes ago, not-enough-cruising said:

Actually recommendations from the medical

community is for you to get vaccinated.  
The most up to date studies do not recognize post recovery antibodies as therapeutic after 90 days. 

Um

 

https://www.nih.gov/news-events/nih-research-matters/lasting-immunity-found-after-recovery-covid-19

 

https://www.cidrap.umn.edu/news-perspective/2020/12/two-studies-find-covid-19-antibodies-last-8-months

[not-enough-cruising]

1 minute ago, smokeybandit said:

Um

 

https://www.nih.gov/news-events/nih-research-matters/lasting-immunity-found-after-recovery-covid-19

 

https://www.cidrap.umn.edu/news-perspective/2020/12/two-studies-find-covid-19-antibodies-last-8-months

Um

 

articles from December 2020, and January 2021

 

Ever wonder why the instances where a post recovery certificate is accepted has the caveat that it is less than 90 days old to be valid? 

[smokeybandit]

3 minutes ago, not-enough-cruising said:

Um

 

articles from December 2020, and January 2021

 

Ever wonder why the instances where a post recovery certificate is accepted has the caveat that it is less than 90 days old to be valid? 

Because it's a random number. Kind of like 6 feet for social distancing, 25/50% capacities for restaurants, 70% vaccination for herd immunity, etc, etc.

[not-enough-cruising]

2 minutes ago, smokeybandit said:

Because it's a random number. Kind of like 6 feet for social distancing, 25/50% capacities for restaurants, 70% vaccination for herd immunity, etc, etc.

Random or not, I stand by my initial comment on the subject 

 

I receive regular guidance from CDC, NIH, state health department. The recommendations I pass on to my patients is get your vaccine, post infection or not. 
 

Take the recommendations or not, makes no difference to me. 

[CruisingHogFan]

47 minutes ago, Tippyton said:

Actually, no.  Zero clinical trials done and zero medical reason to get vaccinated.  Cheezy government infograms don't count as a medical reason.  And its 12 months minimum, not 3.  Likely years.  

 

https://www.frontiersin.org/articles/10.3389/fimmu.2021.660019/full

 

https://www.isglobal.org/documents/10179/7860911/Report+Immunity+to+SARS+CoV2.pdf/7ad40dca-c2ad-4aae-afe9-257afc93e8b2

 

Although neutralizing antibodies can wane over time, long-lasting B and T memory cells can persist in recovered individuals. The natural immunological memory captures the diverse repertoire of SARS-CoV-2 epitopes after natural infection whereas, currently approved vaccines are based on a single epitope, spike protein.

 

 

I had Covid 4 months ago and still

have some side effects. I listen to my doctor and also friends in the medial profession and got the vaccine after 90 days. Seems like this is the general consensus from just about all health care providers that are taking this seriously. 
 

Your information is really bad....

[BOOKBOOKBOOK]

2 hours ago, Tippyton said:

Actually, no.  Zero clinical trials done and zero medical reason to get vaccinated.  Cheezy government infograms don't count as a medical reason.  And its 12 months minimum, not 3.  Likely years.  

 

https://www.frontiersin.org/articles/10.3389/fimmu.2021.660019/full

 

https://www.isglobal.org/documents/10179/7860911/Report+Immunity+to+SARS+CoV2.pdf/7ad40dca-c2ad-4aae-afe9-257afc93e8b2

 

Although neutralizing antibodies can wane over time, long-lasting B and T memory cells can persist in recovered individuals. The natural immunological memory captures the diverse repertoire of SARS-CoV-2 epitopes after natural infection whereas, currently approved vaccines are based on a single epitope, spike protein.

 

 

 

I read both of your sources and neither suggests nor concludes that post-recovery antibodies are therapeutic for "12 months minimum" that you're claiming. I'm going to give you the benefit of the doubt and say that you misread/misinterpreted your sources. No matter the case, your vaccine "recommendations" for naturally infected persons lose so much credibility.

[PhoenixCruiser]

4 hours ago, Tippyton said:

Stop with the namecalling!  I have had covid and I'm not getting vaccinated as there is no medical or scientific reason to.  Period.  And the vaccines were never tested on a recovered cohort.  So stop!  You do you.

Where is the name calling? Anti vaxxers and COVID deniers are a true thing.  Unfortunately, in my opinion.

[BOOKBOOKBOOK]

4 hours ago, Tippyton said:

Stop with the namecalling!  I have had covid and I'm not getting vaccinated as there is no medical or scientific reason to.  Period.  And the vaccines were never tested on a recovered cohort.  So stop!  You do you.

 

Actually, the vaccines were tested on a recovered cohort, and the study's findings suggest that those already recovered from COVID-19 are in the same boat as uninfected people who got only the first dose of Pfizer/Moderna. In other words, people who have had COVID are in worse shape than uninfected, fully vaccinated people. Period.

 

After looking at your post history, I've decided that I'm not going to give you the benefit of the doubt. You are clearly spreading misinformation intentionally, and that's just weird.

 

Next time, just say that you are choosing not to get the vaccine because you feel recovering naturally from the virus is fine for you personally and leave it at that. Spreading misinformation to explain your opinion helps no one.

[Tippyton]

10 hours ago, CruisingHogFan said:

I had Covid 4 months ago and still

have some side effects. I listen to my doctor and also friends in the medial profession and got the vaccine after 90 days. Seems like this is the general consensus from just about all health care providers that are taking this seriously. 
 

Your information is really bad....

It took me 6 months to get all my taste and smell back.  So why do I need a vaccine?

[Tippyton]

8 hours ago, BOOKBOOKBOOK said:

 

I read both of your sources and neither suggests nor concludes that post-recovery antibodies are therapeutic for "12 months minimum" that you're claiming. I'm going to give you the benefit of the doubt and say that you misread/misinterpreted your sources. No matter the case, your vaccine "recommendations" for naturally infected persons lose so much credibility.

I haven't recommended anything for anybody.  Second, not going to do your research but here is 5 seconds spent educating others.

 

https://www.nih.gov/news-events/nih-research-matters/lasting-immunity-found-after-recovery-covid-19

[Tippyton]

7 hours ago, PhoenixCruiser said:

Where is the name calling? Anti vaxxers and COVID deniers are a true thing.  Unfortunately, in my opinion.

I am neither yet I am not nor will be vaccinated for COVID.  What label shall you paint me with?

[Tippyton]

6 hours ago, BOOKBOOKBOOK said:

 

Actually, the vaccines were tested on a recovered cohort, and the study's findings suggest that those already recovered from COVID-19 are in the same boat as uninfected people who got only the first dose of Pfizer/Moderna. In other words, people who have had COVID are in worse shape than uninfected, fully vaccinated people. Period.

 

After looking at your post history, I've decided that I'm not going to give you the benefit of the doubt. You are clearly spreading misinformation intentionally, and that's just weird.

 

Next time, just say that you are choosing not to get the vaccine because you feel recovering naturally from the virus is fine for you personally and leave it at that. Spreading misinformation to explain your opinion helps no one.

As long as you don't put words in my mouth any more - I manage my life decisions with facts, not feelings.  I have stated multiple times there is no medical reason for me to get vaccinated.  Period.  Not in a high risk group.  Secondary infections of .04% maybe that are mild or asymptomatic.  More side effects.   I and the other 20% are just as immune as the vaccinated cohort.  Not sure why people can't wrap their brains around this.  And if you are vaccinated, why should you care?

 

You dont get to make medical decisions for me.  

[ace2542]

23 minutes ago, Tippyton said:

It took me 6 months to get all my taste and smell back.  So why do I need a vaccine?

Because you will get it again in a few more months maybe?

[Tippyton]

11 hours ago, smokeybandit said:

Um

 

https://www.nih.gov/news-events/nih-research-matters/lasting-immunity-found-after-recovery-covid-19

 

https://www.cidrap.umn.edu/news-perspective/2020/12/two-studies-find-covid-19-antibodies-last-8-months

I am a self described

 informed person.  Antibodies wane over time, whether through vaccination or inoculation.  Everybody gets hung up  "BuT mUh aTI boDiEs !" yet there is much more to immunity than that.  Thanks for noticing.

[Tippyton]

5 minutes ago, ace2542 said:

Because you will get it again in a few more months maybe?

Nothing in the literature suggests that as being likely.  Possible( a la Poseidon Adventure) but not likely.

[Ocean Boy]

22 minutes ago, Tippyton said:

As long as you don't put words in my mouth any more - I manage my life decisions with facts, not feelings.  I have stated multiple times there is no medical reason for me to get vaccinated.  Period.  Not in a high risk group.  Secondary infections of .04% maybe that are mild or asymptomatic.  More side effects.   I and the other 20% are just as immune as the vaccinated cohort.  Not sure why people can't wrap their brains around this.  And if you are vaccinated, why should you care?

 

You dont get to make medical decisions for me.  

Here is the problem. When it comes to medicine there are often times many pathways to the same destination. Put a few doctors in the same room and many times they will agree on nothing and each will think that their road map is the best. Here on CC it is not unusual, with many different topics, for people to think that their point of view is the only correct point if view. Medicine is complicated and immunology is incredibly so. That is why physicians exist.

 

After years of education and years of practice I certainly don't don't know everything or understand every nuance so I read all the comments in these medically related theads from non medically trained people with a grain of salt. Though I admit every so often I read something so egregious that I have to chime in.

 

You will not convince others that your perspective is the correct one nor will they convince you that theirs is. It isn't worth getting worked up about.

[Tippyton]

3 minutes ago, Ocean Boy said:

Here is the problem. When it comes to medicine there are often times many pathways to the same destination. Put a few doctors in the same room and many times they will agree on nothing and each will think that their road map is the best. Here on CC it is not unusual, with many different topics, for people to think that their point of view is the only correct point if view. Medicine is complicated and immunology is incredibly so. That is why physicians exist.

 

After years of education and years of practice I certainly don't don't know everything or understand every nuance so I read all the comments in these medically related theads from non medically trained people with a grain of salt. Though I admit every so often I read something so egregious that I have to chime in.

 

You will not convince others that your perspective is the correct one nor will they convince you that theirs is. It isn't worth getting worked up about.

Different paths to the same end"    Exactly!

[kearney]

Just an observation.... perhaps it would be better to begin cruising with all vaccinated... if for no other reason than to avoid the vaccine - no vaccine controversy that might pop up after a few beverages.... I intend this as a joke..in case anyone thinks I am serious....

[CruisingHogFan]

8 hours ago, PhoenixCruiser said:

Where is the name calling? Anti vaxxers and COVID deniers are a true thing.  Unfortunately, in my opinion.

Some of the best conversations I’ve had are people who smoke yet say they aren’t getting the vaccine because it may cause cancer or other issues in the future. More times than not it has nothing to do with health and their rational makes no logical sense.

 

You really can’t make some of this stuff up!!! 😂

[exm]

Can we go back to cruising/CSO and leave the COVID stuff for another forum?

[Jimbo]

30 minutes ago, exm said:

Can we go back to cruising/CSO and leave the COVID stuff for another forum?

We may be to the point of no return.... lol  your request may not be possible.

[ONECRUISER]

15 hours ago, Tippyton said:

Actually, no.  Zero clinical trials done and zero medical reason to get vaccinated.  Cheezy government infograms don't count as a medical reason.  And its 12 months minimum, not 3.  Likely years.  

 

https://www.frontiersin.org/articles/10.3389/fimmu.2021.660019/full

 

https://www.isglobal.org/documents/10179/7860911/Report+Immunity+to+SARS+CoV2.pdf/7ad40dca-c2ad-4aae-afe9-257afc93e8b2

 

Although neutralizing antibodies can wane over time, long-lasting B and T memory cells can persist in recovered individuals. The natural immunological memory captures the diverse repertoire of SARS-CoV-2 epitopes after natural infection whereas, currently approved vaccines are based on a single epitope, spike protein.

 

 

 

15 hours ago, smokeybandit said:

Um

 

https://www.nih.gov/news-events/nih-research-matters/lasting-immunity-found-after-recovery-covid-19

 

https://www.cidrap.umn.edu/news-perspective/2020/12/two-studies-find-covid-19-antibodies-last-8-months

Thanks for sharing. There is 2 reasons Covid cases are going down and Disease is burning out towards Herd Immunity, those are Vaccines/Vaccinated and also the high numbers of those with Natural Immunity. 

[sugcarol]

3 hours ago, CruisingHogFan said:

Some of the best conversations I’ve had are people who smoke yet say they aren’t getting the vaccine because it may cause cancer or other issues in the future. More times than not it has nothing to do with health and their rational makes no logical sense.

 

You really can’t make some of this stuff up!!! 😂

Interesting fact, during the vaccine trials, they found that smokers and people taking steroids did not get the virus. It was an environment the virus did not like.

[ChutChut]

On 5/15/2021 at 6:57 PM, BOOKBOOKBOOK said:

 

I definitely share your concern that it will be important for cruise lines to find a way to determine whether or not someone is truly vaccinated.

 

It is easy to duplicate/fake the vaccine cards on their surface, but faking a manufacturer, lot number, vaccine provider, and date of dose(s) will be very difficult. While it may be easy for a passenger to slip through the cruise terminal showing a fake card, once the cruise line does further inspection on the back end during and/or after the cruise, they can verify the hard-to-fake entries on the card.

 

If a passenger is found to have shown a fake card, the cruise line can then impose hefty penalties, including but not limited to pursuing legal action (perhaps getting the feds involved) and lifetime bans. Should an outbreak occur and the cruise line incurs financial damages, they could even make the fake cardholder partially liable via a passenger agreement that they sign before boarding.

 

With all this in mind, I highly doubt that anyone would try to fake their way through in the first place. The risk is just too high.

Issue is there is no central repository for these vaccine lots. Each state (I believe) has their own though.

[ChutChut]

16 hours ago, exm said:

 

Not sure what to make of this, but at this moment in time in the US no one should die of Covid: you either get the vaccine, you take precautions if you can't or you take your chance. Everyone can get the vaccine if you want to. Let's open up without restrictions. Foreigners entering our country should prove they're vaccinated, period (obviously, except on the Southern border but that's a whole other story).

Unfortunately, people who have gotten the vaccine have gotten Covid and died. Only a few hundred so far - but it does happen (mostly in people older than 60).