New CDC Guidance 5/26, significant changes for masks and dining

[ArthurUSCG]

I'm ready for a fully/95% vaccinated cruise and thanks to being home and the restrictions, we've saved so much to blow it going to feel like the 80s.

[A&L_Ont]

6 minutes ago, BecciBoo said:

I hope that is facetious!  BTW, I do wear my seat belt, but only because my Hubs wants to keep me a while longer!  I was one of those who do not appreciate the government in my space.  Comme Ci, Comme Ça

 

You get my humour. 🙂 More below...  

 

As for the belt... I wear it too even though my wife is hoping for an insurance payout. I don't check my brakes daily, but I haven't frustrated her that much after 20 years together.😂 

[ace2542]

14 hours ago, jrapps said:

Cruise ship operators, at their discretion, may designate areas only accessible to fully vaccinated passengers and crew where masks and physical distancing are not required (e.g., casinos; bars; spas; entertainment venues; and dining areas, including self-serve buffets

How do you police the so called non 5% unless as I have said before you go down the road of George Orwells 1984 or Person of Interest. Or give the vaccinated passengers a lanyard to wear thus creating 2 classes onboard?

[ace2542]

14 hours ago, Jeremiah1212 said:

Celebrity and the few others committed to the 95% plan should definitely take advantage of this

Wouldn't the 100% plan of NCL be a better model? I will ask a second poster the same question as above. How do you police the non 5%?

[jrapps]

3 minutes ago, ace2542 said:

How do you police the so called non 5% unless as I have said before you go down the road of George Orwells 1984 or Person of Interest. Or give the vaccinated passengers a lanyard to wear thus creating 2 classes onboard?

I don't think they will. I think it is easier for them to do "No Restriction" cruises for the 95% vax, and "All Restrictions" for the under 95%. Trying to carve out areas for vaccinated people on a mixed-cruise is a disaster in the making.

[Jeremiah1212]

6 minutes ago, ace2542 said:

Wouldn't the 100% plan of NCL be a better model? I will ask a second poster the same question as above. How do you police the non 5%?

 

People are overcomplicating this situation to an insane degree.....

 

Celebrity said weeks ago they would allow unvaccinated minors to populate up to 5% of the ships capacity at the time of sailing. Assume all minors are unvaccinated. Say that age is 16 now. Once 5% of the ship was booked with people under 16, bookings for minors would not be allowed.

 

If there are 1,000 people on board, 50 people could be under 16. If that number hits 51? You're probably getting a phone call with bad news if you're unlucky person 51. 

 

Edited May 27, 2021 by Jeremiah1212

[Jeremiah1212]

9 minutes ago, ace2542 said:

How do you police the so called non 5% unless as I have said before you go down the road of George Orwells 1984 or Person of Interest. Or give the vaccinated passengers a lanyard to wear thus creating 2 classes onboard?

 

Again, it's not that complicated. 

 

I could totally see this provision being used for an area like the spa. Sorry, you can't use spa services if you are unvaccinated. You would potentially have a masseuse or esthetician within inches of your face, no mask, for an hour or more.

[mek]

5 hours ago, Beeline Cruiser said:

Yeah seriously because I've kept this to myself but it totally ruins it for me when everyone else getting to PLAN CRUISING again! And yet I also just found about about the dog coin FLOP and I've had some Wine.

But, just think about all of the extra time you will have to work on Royal's food if you can't cruise.  The opportunities are endless.

[jrapps]

2 minutes ago, Jeremiah1212 said:

 

People are overcomplicating this situation to an insane degree.....

 

Celebrity said weeks ago they would allow unvaccinated minors to populate up to 5% of the ships capacity at the time of sailing. Assume all minors are unvaccinated. Say that age is 16 now. Once 5% of the ship was booked with people under 16, bookings for minors would not be allowed.

 

If there are 1,000 people on board, 50 people could be under 16. If that number hits 51? You're probably getting a phone call with bad news if you're unlucky person 51. 

 

I think if you were booking all new cruises you could do something like this. The problem is many of the cruises that are going to be setting sale in the July August and September time frame have already been booked for months if not years. It's hard to do something like that retroactively.

 

For new cruises sure I think that would be possible but by the time you get to booking brand new cruises these rules will have completely changed a hundred times again

[coldflame]

4 minutes ago, jrapps said:

I think if you were booking all new cruises you could do something like this. The problem is many of the cruises that are going to be setting sale in the July August and September time frame have already been booked for months if not years. It's hard to do something like that retroactively.

 

For new cruises sure I think that would be possible but by the time you get to booking brand new cruises these rules will have completely changed a hundred times again

For sure. If they did clean slate, would be far easier. But as you say summer/late summer cruises have likely been at least partially booked for months -- which are the most often traveled with kids. So nearly impossible to enforce 95% vax rate unless they randomly begin cancelling reservations to keep the numbers close to quota.

Edited May 27, 2021 by coldflame

[ArthurUSCG]

5 minutes ago, Jeremiah1212 said:

 

People are overcomplicating this situation to an insane degree.....

 

Celebrity said weeks ago they would allow unvaccinated minors to populate up to 5% of the ships capacity at the time of sailing. Assume all minors are unvaccinated. Say that age is 16 now. Once 5% of the ship was booked with people under 16, bookings for minors would not be allowed.

 

If there are 1,000 people on board, 50 people could be under 16. If that number hits 51? You're probably getting a phone call with bad news if you're unlucky person 51. 

 

Yep, and if you booked that super cheap inside state room, your going to be getting a call. But if you booked a grand suite, your likely ok, because Capitalism.

[kearney]

17 minutes ago, orville99 said:

Absolutely on point! The reality is that, despite the protestations of those who believe the 95% threshold will not be met on RCL cruises, if it comes down to a choice between doing vaccinated-only cruises, or no cruises without significant restrictions and reductions in capacity because they can't get to 95% vaccinated, the almighty dollar will make the decision easy for the cruise lines. No vax - no cruise. As for Florida, as long as the cruise lines use the CDC's orders as cover, they can effectively sidestep the Florida law (and this carve out is actually spelled out IN the Florida law.

Is this really true.... that the Florida anti vaccine passport law has a carve out... for CDC orders? This is the first I have heard of that... why did the NCL CEO threaten to leave Florida because of this rule... knowing it was a CDC requirement.... This is interesting...

[ace2542]

1 minute ago, Jeremiah1212 said:

 

Again, it's not that complicated. 

 

I could totally see this provision being used for an area like the spa. Sorry, you can't use spa services if you are unvaccinated. You would potentially have a masseuse or esthetician within inches of your face, no mask, for an hour or more.

How would staff know I have or have not been vaccinated unless they are checking cards at every junction? And that is George Orwells 1984 right there or Person of Interest crossed with Silver. And if they are not checking at every junction it is unenforceable? I don't ever recall swiping my card at the buffet or the outdoor burger cook out bar whatever unless I got a drink. You just walk up and get the food and the staff will assume you are vaccinated yes?

[exm]

I think it's very simple: 12 years and up vaccinated, kiddos under 12 tested. No restrictions for kiddos and parents, masks probably required inside but not outside or in the dining room. Buffet open (masks required). Seems like a reasonable compromise.

[exm]

Just now, ace2542 said:

How would staff know I have or have not been vaccinated unless they are checking cards at every junction? And that is George Orwells 1984 right there or Person of Interest crossed with Silver. And if they are not checking at every junction it is unenforceable? I don't ever recall swiping my card at the buffet or the outdoor burger cook out bar whatever unless I got a drink. You just walk up and get the food and the staff will assume you are vaccinated yes?

 

I think if someone gets COVID on-board, they'll check his vaccination status. If he's carrying a COVID card they'll report this to the CDC. The CDC will check with the issuing state. If the card is fake, that person will face crushing penalties from both the Fed, financial penalties from RC and most likely a lifetime RC ban.

[Jeremiah1212]

4 minutes ago, jrapps said:

I think if you were booking all new cruises you could do something like this. The problem is many of the cruises that are going to be setting sale in the July August and September time frame have already been booked for months if not years. It's hard to do something like that retroactively.

 

For new cruises sure I think that would be possible but by the time you get to booking brand new cruises these rules will have completely changed a hundred times again

 

In Celebrity's case they don't have many minors anyway. You provide your DOB at booking and even your CC number which also has your DOB attached to it. There will be some stragglers who put the second guest as a TBD but to impact those guests you would have to be on the cusp of capacity AND have additional guests listed as TBD on the reservation.

 

At a high level they can easily tell who is booked. If some cruises were already over capacity, they would handle those one by one but they have even mentioned that total bookings on some of these cruises are yet to hit the 40% mark.

[NateUpNorth]

1 hour ago, A&L_Ont said:

Just read an article this morning that Trudeau wants 75% of the population fully vaccinated before the opening of border to the US. At our current roll out speed I’m sticking with my previous prediction. 

Fully??? Jeepers. 
Weren't we hoping for 1 shot by end of summer? Before AZ got shelved? I know there's all the 4 month appointments booked..... do you thing we'll actually hit those dates? I'm of the opinion they may get pushed back again.

[Jeremiah1212]

3 minutes ago, ace2542 said:

How would staff know I have or have not been vaccinated unless they are checking cards at every junction? And that is George Orwells 1984 right there or Person of Interest crossed with Silver. And if they are not checking at every junction it is unenforceable? I don't ever recall swiping my card at the buffet or the outdoor burger cook out bar whatever unless I got a drink. You just walk up and get the food and the staff will assume you are vaccinated yes?

 

I don't know how to explain this any more. 

 

ALL adults age 16+ (12+ as of Aug 1) will be vaccinated except the tiny portion that claim a medical reason or manufacture some religious reason. Those will be few and far between which is the population you seem to be hung up on. 

 

They could make them wear a purple wig, a tutu, a florescent safety vest. I don't know. If you see a kid, assume they are unvaccinated. If you see an adult sans mask, let the cruise line figure it out. 

[orville99]

18 minutes ago, Jeremiah1212 said:

 

People are overcomplicating this situation to an insane degree.....

 

Celebrity said weeks ago they would allow unvaccinated minors to populate up to 5% of the ships capacity at the time of sailing. Assume all minors are unvaccinated. Say that age is 16 now. Once 5% of the ship was booked with people under 16, bookings for minors would not be allowed.

 

If there are 1,000 people on board, 50 people could be under 16. If that number hits 51? You're probably getting a phone call with bad news if you're unlucky person 51. 

 

True. When you go online and try to book a cruise, the booking engine requires you to put in the number of passengers, and if you are trying to book a cabin with more than two occupants, it also asks you if any of those people are children, and what their ages are before it shows you available cabins. Once a sailing gets close to the 5% cap, it is easy for IT (even RCL's IT) to add a few lines of code to the booking engine that shows no available cabins.

[orville99]

15 minutes ago, kearney said:

Is this really true.... that the Florida anti vaccine passport law has a carve out... for CDC orders? This is the first I have heard of that... why did the NCL CEO threaten to leave Florida because of this rule... knowing it was a CDC requirement.... This is interesting...

Yes, the Florida law states that it can be overridden by a contrary requirement from a higher government entity. Fed trumps State. CDC is Fed, and if they say no proof no sail, their rules win.

 

[orville99]

10 minutes ago, Jeremiah1212 said:

 

I don't know how to explain this any more. 

 

ALL adults age 16+ (12+ as of Aug 1) will be vaccinated except the tiny portion that claim a medical reason or manufacture some religious reason. Those will be few and far between which is the population you seem to be hung up on. 

And from the way the document is worded, it would appear that you would need to provide documentation of either a medical or religious exemption. 

Edited May 27, 2021 by orville99

[kearney]

1 minute ago, orville99 said:

Yes, the Florida law states that it can be overridden by a contrary requirement from a higher government entity. Fed trumps State. CDC is Fed, and if they say no proof no sail, their rules win.

 

So what has all the fuss been about. I argued that I couldn't see how a state could interfere with cruise lines ...but had no idea that the issue was already addressed in the law itself.

[jrapps]

10 minutes ago, orville99 said:

Yes, the Florida law states that it can be overridden by a contrary requirement from a higher government entity. Fed trumps State. CDC is Fed, and if they say no proof no sail, their rules win.

 

I agree with you, there may be one small problem...nowhere does the CDC mandate vaccines to sail. That could be a legal sticking point. If the CDC flat out said, no vaccine, no sail, then yes that might be a loophole. As long as the CDC allows you to sail unvaccinated, that kills this particular argument.

 

I still think ships will sail anyway with a vaccine requirement, and they will either ignore the law, find some other loophole around it, or mediate it out of existence.

[A&L_Ont]

27 minutes ago, NateUpNorth said:

Fully??? Jeepers. 
Weren't we hoping for 1 shot by end of summer? Before AZ got shelved? I know there's all the 4 month appointments booked..... do you thing we'll actually hit those dates? I'm of the opinion they may get pushed back again.

My son gets his first dose of Pfizer this Monday and he is in the 12-18 age group. Four months for him would be mid September.  I’d say 75% is doable because AZ shots are a drop in the bucket. That percentage could also change. 
 

If Moderna started to deliver as promised we’d be much further along. They are greatly behind on their deliveries and have to make up on millions of promised deliveries. 

 

Quote from a story about Moderna. Full story is linked below. 
 

“To date Canada has received and distributed just over 4.5 million Moderna shots, of a total commitment by end of June for between 10.3 and 12.3 million doses. That leaves at least 5.8 million doses outstanding with just over five weeks to go before Canada Day, and no future locked-in deliveries”.

 

https://www.ctvnews.ca/mobile/politics/moderna-doses-haven-t-disappeared-feds-still-banking-on-deliveries-before-end-of-june-1.5438705

Edited May 27, 2021 by A&L_Ont

[not-enough-cruising]

56 minutes ago, kearney said:

Is this really true.... that the Florida anti vaccine passport law has a carve out... for CDC orders? This is the first I have heard of that... why did the NCL CEO threaten to leave Florida because of this rule... knowing it was a CDC requirement.... This is interesting...

Vaccines aren’t a CDC requirement, that is the problem with the above argument.