CDC gives Celebrity the approval to start in June

[wrk2cruise]

Interesting tid bit in the blog was the fact that if FL gets it's injunction to block the CSO that will nuke the Alaska season as they state the law allowing them requires ships to have the CDC CSO approval to sail.

[cruise wizard]

18 minutes ago, wrk2cruise said:

Interesting tid bit in the blog was the fact that if FL gets it's injunction to block the CSO that will nuke the Alaska season as they state the law allowing them requires ships to have the CDC CSO approval to sail.

 

Cluster................

[graphicguy]

Reading through it, it still sounds like Desantis has not been able to prove how the 100%, 98%, 95% COVID Vaccine proof causes the State of Florida any harm.  Further, Desantis' refusal to drop his suit WOULD cause harm to the entire cruise industry.

 

FL has objected, but it doesn't look good for Desantis at this juncture.  And, that's good news for all of us.

[Host Jazzbeau]

37 minutes ago, wrk2cruise said:

Interesting tid bit in the blog was the fact that if FL gets it's injunction to block the CSO that will nuke the Alaska season as they state the law allowing them requires ships to have the CDC CSO approval to sail.

To me the more interesting argument, made by the Federal lawyers, is that the Alaska law 'ratifies' the CSO.  This is a straightforward 'congressional intent' analysis:  since the law modifies the effect of the CSO in one part, it implies that Congress is OK with the rest of the order.

[gcorgain]

I think Celebrity is handling the restart poorly. I understand that protocols and ports are changing, but they could definitely take some of this uncertainty out. They know they can't restart everything at once, and so they should focus June and July on the new offerings (Millennium, Apex, Edge, Summit). They then should plot a phased return to service for the rest of the fleet through the fall, adjusting itineraries to places that are likely to work as needed. Most of us that are currently booked would appreciate the more certain approach, and most of us really want to sail. They could allow a rebooking window for those already booked before opening to the public. And they could phase the opening of bookings to avoid reservations being overloaded.

 

While I understand they would have to give refunds, these would be offset by new revenues. I also think that would allow us to plan for a new sailing if our current sailing was cancelled. I know this sane approach is not likely, but I still think it would be wise.

[Jeremiah1212]

11 minutes ago, gcorgain said:

I think Celebrity is handling the restart poorly. I understand that protocols and ports are changing, but they could definitely take some of this uncertainty out. They know they can't restart everything at once, and so they should focus June and July on the new offerings (Millennium, Apex, Edge, Summit). They then should plot a phased return to service for the rest of the fleet through the fall, adjusting itineraries to places that are likely to work as needed. Most of us that are currently booked would appreciate the more certain approach, and most of us really want to sail. They could allow a rebooking window for those already booked before opening to the public. And they could phase the opening of bookings to avoid reservations being overloaded.

 

While I understand they would have to give refunds, these would be offset by new revenues. I also think that would allow us to plan for a new sailing if our current sailing was cancelled. I know this sane approach is not likely, but I still think it would be wise.

 

What you outlined is almost exactly what they are doing?

[Denny01]

27 minutes ago, gcorgain said:

I think Celebrity is handling the restart poorly. I understand that protocols and ports are changing, but they could definitely take some of this uncertainty out. They know they can't restart everything at once, and so they should focus June and July on the new offerings (Millennium, Apex, Edge, Summit). They then should plot a phased return to service for the rest of the fleet through the fall, adjusting itineraries to places that are likely to work as needed. Most of us that are currently booked would appreciate the more certain approach, and most of us really want to sail. They could allow a rebooking window for those already booked before opening to the public. And they could phase the opening of bookings to avoid reservations being overloaded.

 

While I understand they would have to give refunds, these would be offset by new revenues. I also think that would allow us to plan for a new sailing if our current sailing was cancelled. I know this sane approach is not likely, but I still think it would be wise.

Great ideas…….glad Celebrity initiated them already. The ‘uncertainty’ is being caused by the Florida Administration which should get their act together on supporting a major business. 

 

Den

[markeb]

30 minutes ago, Host Jazzbeau said:

To me the more interesting argument, made by the Federal lawyers, is that the Alaska law 'ratifies' the CSO.  This is a straightforward 'congressional intent' analysis:  since the law modifies the effect of the CSO in one part, it implies that Congress is OK with the rest of the order.

 

Interesting. The law does state the provisions don't apply during a period that the CDC has suspended cruise operations under the Public Health Service Act. Pretty sure that's where they derive the authority to suspend and regulate cruising for health reasons. Which would include the authority for a controlled restart. Without suggesting the CDC doesn't have that authority, and as argued, even reinforcing that authority...

[gcorgain]

41 minutes ago, Jeremiah1212 said:

 

What you outlined is almost exactly what they are doing?

I don't think so. Four of eleven ships have confirmed restart plans (excluding the Galapagos fleet). To my knowledge most of the remaining fleet has sailings that are still being sold that have very little chance of going.

 

If you look at Regent as an example, they have announced their restart plans going out through next February. Including many sailings that were previously planned and some new ones. If I knew my October Reflection European sailing was being cancelled, I could make plans on a different sailing this year (but if it does go, I'd prefer  to stick with it). While my sailing has a reasonable chance at going, there are many in July and August that do not in my opinion.

 

Does this make more sense?

 

 

[Ken the cruiser]

An article was just posted on the RC Blog about the progress of the court case. Looks like Florida will not be providing the court a rebuttal to CDC's recent filing. Hopefully the court will be moving quickly with their ruling. One can hope anyway. 😎

 

The official with DeSantis’ administration says the state will wait on a ruling on its lawsuit, which is expected "soon." 

 

Florida believes the CDC does not have the right to hold back the cruise industry for this long, and is unlawful. Instead, Florida wants cruise lines to be able to sail without any kind of restart approval process. 

 

The same official from Governor DeSantis' administration says Florida will maintain its ban on cruise lines asking for proof of vaccination from passengers.

 

Edited June 3, 2021 by Ken the cruiser

[mac_tlc]

As expected, the governor has no intention of backing down or compromising. He would much rather get a negative result from the lawsuit and blame it on someone else. A good personal strategy, but harmful to many others. 
 

Reminds me of the final scene in Star Trek II. “ The needs of the many outweigh the needs of the one”………. Or, maybe not. 
 

mac_tlc

[D C]

Just saw this article:

https://www.clickorlando.com/news/local/2021/06/03/mediation-fails-to-settle-cruise-line-lawsuit-between-florida-cdc/

 

"mediation has failed to settle the case"

After more than a week of good-faith negotiations by the State of Florida in mediation with the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention (CDC), after Florida sued the CDC to overturn the agencies unlawful No Sail Order, the CDC continues to impose ridiculous, unlawful regulations that targets a single industry by imposing vaccine requirements – something no other business or industry must do. These requirements not only discriminate against one industry, but children, families, and small businesses. Despite Florida’s sincere efforts to reach a compromise, the United States District Court declared an impasse.

[Jeremiah1212]

17 minutes ago, D C said:

Just saw this article:

https://www.clickorlando.com/news/local/2021/06/03/mediation-fails-to-settle-cruise-line-lawsuit-between-florida-cdc/

 

"mediation has failed to settle the case"

After more than a week of good-faith negotiations by the State of Florida in mediation with the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention (CDC), after Florida sued the CDC to overturn the agencies unlawful No Sail Order, the CDC continues to impose ridiculous, unlawful regulations that targets a single industry by imposing vaccine requirements – something no other business or industry must do. These requirements not only discriminate against one industry, but children, families, and small businesses. Despite Florida’s sincere efforts to reach a compromise, the United States District Court declared an impasse.

Ohhh someone is mad!

 

Guess he didn’t prove those ‘unlawful’ claims all that well. 

[graphicguy]

5 minutes ago, Jeremiah1212 said:

Ohhh someone is mad!

 

Guess he didn’t prove those ‘unlawful’ claims all that well. 

So, assuming this is Desantis' little temper tantrum, Vaccinations will be required in the foreseeable future (95%-98%)?

 

So, given no mediation agreement, this essential is saying FL can no longer block these cruises?

 

BTW....the above are questions...not statements.

Edited June 3, 2021 by graphicguy

[Ken the cruiser]

1 minute ago, graphicguy said:

So, assuming this is Desantis' little temper tantrum, Vaccinations will be required in the foreseeable future (95%-98%)?

 

So, given no mediation agreement, this essential is saying FL can no longer block these cruises?

I could be wrong, but I think the cruise lines still have to come up with a scheme to work around the FL "Vaccine Passport" ban.

[graphicguy]

Just now, Ken the cruiser said:

I could be wrong, but I think the cruise lines still have to come up with a scheme to work around the FL "Vaccine Passport" ban.

OK...so that gets us back to having to upload COVID Vaccine proof via the internet to connect it to the reservation.  Desantis has no authority over the internet and what is/isn't uploaded/downloaded.  I would  think this was the plan all along.

 

[Ken the cruiser]

1 minute ago, graphicguy said:

OK...so that gets us back to having to upload COVID Vaccine proof via the internet to connect it to the reservation.  Desantis has no authority over the internet and what is/isn't uploaded/downloaded.  I would  think this was the plan all along.

 

The trick is going to be the location where passengers will be required to provide the actual proof of vaccination to finish the final boarding process; in the terminal or on the ship prior to departure or by some other means?

[Host Jazzbeau]

9 minutes ago, graphicguy said:

OK...so that gets us back to having to upload COVID Vaccine proof via the internet to connect it to the reservation.  Desantis has no authority over the internet and what is/isn't uploaded/downloaded.  I would  think this was the plan all along.

 

This is the only plan that I can see working smoothly.  You will have to complete registration – including proof of vaccination – online prior to the sail date (to give the cruise lines time to process all the paperwork).  Then only those who are on the cruise line manifest will be allowed to check luggage and enter the cruise terminal.  "We aren't checking vaccine status at the terminal [ha ha], just whether you are pre-registered or not."

[graphicguy]

4 minutes ago, Ken the cruiser said:

The trick is going to be the location where passengers will be required to provide the actual proof of vaccination to finish the final boarding process; in the terminal or on the ship prior to departure or by some other means?

Well....I would think the one way would be for the Vaccine Proof to be uploaded to their reservation check in site, where Celebrity can confirm its authenticity.  And/or to have a place set up on the ship to check in instead of at the port.  That way, Celebrity can say the passenger did not meet the agreed upon requirements to sail WHILE THEY WERE ON THE SHIP, which the Captain has the final say (spit balling here).

 

IF you don't have legitimate proof of the COVID vaccine once on board, you can be put off the ship before it leaves the dock.

 

Might cause a bit of a bottleneck on the ship, though.

 

[graphicguy]

1 minute ago, Host Jazzbeau said:

This is the only plan that I can see working smoothly.  You will have to complete registration – including proof of vaccination – online prior to the sail date (to give the cruise lines time to process all the paperwork).  Then only those who are on the cruise line manifest will be allowed to check luggage and enter the cruise terminal.  "We aren't checking vaccine status at the terminal [ha ha], just whether you are pre-registered or not."

Yep....you must be pre-registered to enter the terminal.  Pre-registration means you must show proof of COVID vaccination before even checking baggage or being allowed in the terminal.  No pre-registration?  No entrance!

[TrulyBlonde]

4 minutes ago, Host Jazzbeau said:

This is the only plan that I can see working smoothly.  You will have to complete registration – including proof of vaccination – online prior to the sail date (to give the cruise lines time to process all the paperwork).  Then only those who are on the cruise line manifest will be allowed to check luggage and enter the cruise terminal.  "We aren't checking vaccine status at the terminal [ha ha], just whether you are pre-registered or not."

Prior to being able to go to Antarctica on Ponant, we had to have a medical exam completed by a certain date and downloaded with other documents. Easy to do and very simple. Same can apply to proof of vaccination.

[D C]

10 minutes ago, Ken the cruiser said:

The trick is going to be the location where passengers will be required to provide the actual proof of vaccination to finish the final boarding process; in the terminal or on the ship prior to departure or by some other means?

Upload a photo to complete check-in should take care of it.  Not like there is anything on the CDC card that would look different in person. 

[Ken the cruiser]

1 minute ago, D C said:

Upload a photo to complete check-in should take care of it.  Not like there is anything on the CDC card that would look different in person. 

Sounds like a plan as long as CDC accepts that as proof. But, I would think it would be pretty easy, if one was so inclined, to upload photoshopped picture than to present the real document during the final boarding process. 

[Jeremiah1212]

26 minutes ago, graphicguy said:

So, assuming this is Desantis' little temper tantrum, Vaccinations will be required in the foreseeable future (95%-98%)?

 

So, given no mediation agreement, this essential is saying FL can no longer block these cruises?

 

BTW....the above are questions...not statements.

This issue of FL vs CDC is separate from the vaccine documentation issue. I would fully expect him to dig in on the vaccine issue now since he didn’t get his way during round 1 with the injunction. His ‘statement’ was just his throwing down any anti-CDC sentiment he could think of for purposes of being dramatic.

 

 

[cangelmd]

4 minutes ago, Ken the cruiser said:

Sounds like a plan as long as CDC accepts that as proof. But, I would think it would be pretty easy, if one was so inclined, to upload photoshopped picture than to present the real document during the final boarding process. 

As I have said before - where's TeeRick?- if 98-100% of the crew are vaccinated and 75% of the passengers are vaccinated, Covid is not going to spread. Do you really think 1 out of every 4 Celeb passengers is going to cheat? Yes, someone will cheat and the first few cruises are likely at the greatest risk of someone just wanting to make a point, but significant transmission is highly, highly unlikely, and that's without any masking or social distancing.

 

I'm concerned about political grandstanding and a little worried about what happens when immunity wanes in pockets of this country like my state where the vaccination rate is so low, but Covid, nah? I'm safer on that ship with the cheaters than I am at the local Walmart and you are too Ken.