Formal nights

[socmft]

 work in one of the last industries (investments & banking) where wearing a suit is still the daily norm. My friends who are lawyers only wear suits when they are in court or initial client meetings. (as an aside, ponder why lawyers wear suits in court). It is really downhill from there. I was in a meeting with a potential client a few years ago. He was in flip flops, shorts a t-shirt and at one point in the meeting was picking at his toes with his flip flops off. I'd have tossed him out of the meeting except he is worth $3,000,000,000 and change 🤣

 

 

 

 

I sure hope you landed this trillion$$ client.

 

[KeepCalmBearOn]

4 hours ago, Cruise till you drop said:

Good golly miss Molly .  These formal dress threads are painful .  I mean really, who cares what other people wear .....

 

The cruise line does. That is why they make the request. Dressing for dinner creates an atmosphere. Dressing up for special occasions has been a thing since man first started putting on clothing.

 

This "who really cares" mantra I hear from people, is from people who think everything is all about them and there is no corporate responsibility.

 

4 hours ago, Cruise till you drop said:

When we travelled on Celebrity in 2020, I was over joyed that they do not have formal nights. It was glorious.

 

Then sail on cruise lines that do not have formal nights or don't go to an MDR or Specialty restaurant on Formal Night. Go to the buffet or get room service.

 

4 hours ago, Cruise till you drop said:

Also if you think about it, in 100 years....

 

This is here and now, it isn't 100 years ago or 100 years from now.

 

2 hours ago, GonzoWCS said:

"Really"?  Do Tell...

 

The U.S. Navy has "Dinner Dress" not "Mess Dress".

 

2 hours ago, Ptroxx said:

formal wear should be a choice.   

 

Dress codes are a choice.....  the choice of the restaurant, cruise line, church, etc, who sets it and then it is your choice to eat in that restaurant, take that cruise line or visit that church or not if you do not like their policies.

 

2 hours ago, Ptroxx said:

these Resturants are nothing more than a high class sizzler/outback.   

 

Again, NOT the point. Dress codes are the choice of the business. The patron's choice is  whether or not to patronize the business.

 

2 hours ago, Ptroxx said:

in the 40-50-60’s when people always dressed up to fly,  ok.  But this is the 21st century.  Things have changed. Shorts are very common in the corporate world these days.  

 

What hasn't changed is it is the company's choice to set standards.

 

As to "the corporate world", while in some companies the rank & file might be allowed to wear shorts, that isn't the norm at the executive or even managerial level.

 

2 hours ago, Ptroxx said:

Billionaire's are wearing them to corporate meetings.

 

How many billionaire's do you know? How often are you with them in corporate meetings?

 

1 hour ago, socmft said:

 I sure hope you landed this trillion$$ client.

 

He was only a billionaire, and yes he did hire us.

[socmft]

31 minutes ago, scottca075 said:

 

The cruise line does. That is why they make the request. Dressing for dinner creates an atmosphere. Dressing up for special occasions has been a thing since man first started putting on clothing.

 

This "who really cares" mantra I hear from people, is from people who think everything is all about them and there is no corporate responsibility.

 

 

Then sail on cruise lines that do not have formal nights or don't go to an MDR or Specialty restaurant on Formal Night. Go to the buffet or get room service.

 

 

This is here and now, it isn't 100 years ago or 100 years from now.

 

 

The U.S. Navy has "Dinner Dress" not "Mess Dress".

 

 

Dress codes are a choice.....  the choice of the restaurant, cruise line, church, etc, who sets it and then it is your choice to eat in that restaurant, take that cruise line or visit that church or not if you do not like their policies.

 

 

Again, NOT the point. Dress codes are the choice of the business. The patron's choice is  whether or not to patronize the business.

 

 

What hasn't changed is it is the company's choice to set standards.

 

As to "the corporate world", while in some companies the rank & file might be allowed to wear shorts, that isn't the norm at the executive or even managerial level.

 

 

How many billionaire's do you know? How often are you with them in corporate meetings?

 

 

He was only a billionaire, and yes he did hire us.

My bad - got lost counting the 0's.  Good thing I'm not in your line of business!

 

[socmft]

1 hour ago, PTMary said:

 

That is quite the elitist comment! "I want two separate dining rooms so the riff-raff can be kept in their place". LOL!

Nope - not the meaning at all.  I like casual dress....am not riff-raff and don't know why you would assume I meant casual dress as riff-raff. The comments are steered to the people who dress formal not liking to see casual dress on formal night in the MDR so if that's the case choose MDR#1 and I'll choose MDR#2.  Problem solved. 

[PTMary]

7 minutes ago, socmft said:

Nope - not the meaning at all.  I like casual dress....am not riff-raff and don't know why you would assume I meant casual dress as riff-raff. The comments are steered to the people who dress formal not liking to see casual dress on formal night in the MDR so if that's the case choose MDR#1 and I'll choose MDR#2.  Problem solved. 

 

Noted. I thought you were the "upper crust" by your statement. My mistake. 

 

I prefer casual dress, so I'm the "riff-raff" in my own comment. I think it amusing when the "I don't want to see your lower class clothing" types get their designer knickers in a bunch over a meal in a dining room. Just too much judgment going on. 

 

 

Edited July 23, 2022 by PTMary

[MissP22]

1 hour ago, scottca075 said:

The cruise line does. That is why they make the request. Dressing for dinner creates an atmosphere. Dressing up for special occasions has been a thing since man first started putting on clothing.

 

This "who really cares" mantra I hear from people, is from people who think everything is all about them and there is no corporate responsibility.

I don't know if you've cruised Princess lately but things have changed from that real formal atmosphere to that of a more relaxed vacation type of cruise. The formal dressing is still adhered to by people who choose to do so while the rest of the people just dress nicely without being force to comply to any strict standard. 

Even shorts on casual evenings are quite common. 

Times are changing. 

[Steelers36]

1 hour ago, scottca075 said:

Then sail on cruise lines that do not have formal nights or don't go to an MDR or Specialty restaurant on Formal Night. Go to the buffet or get room service.

Aside from the fact that I don't believe we should be telling fellow Princess guests what to do, the Specialty Restaurants have been, and remain, smart casual at all times.  However, formal wear is also welcomed.

[SantaFeFan]

1 hour ago, PTMary said:

 

Noted. I thought you were the "upper crust" by your statement. My mistake. 

 

I prefer casual dress, so I'm the "riff-raff" in my own comment. I think it amusing when the "I don't want to see your lower class clothing" types get their designer knickers in a bunch over a meal in a dining room. Just too much judgment going on. 

 

 

 

I would be willing to bet that many of those same people who insist on everyone adhering to a RECOMMENDED dress code so they can dine in a "civilized" atmosphere routinely drive over the posted speed limit or roll through a stop sign, both of which require ignoring actual LAWS that are much more important than mere dress code recommendations. 

[Steelers36]

2 hours ago, scottca075 said:

 

Dress codes are a choice.....  the choice of the restaurant, cruise line, church, etc, who sets it and then it is your choice to eat in that restaurant, take that cruise line or visit that church or not if you do not like their policies.

 

Again, NOT the point. Dress codes are the choice of the business. The patron's choice is  whether or not to patronize the business.

 

You are correct in that a business can set a standard and advise potential customers of it and then the customer knows to either go along or head to a competitor.

 

The thing is that Princess has setup more of a guideline and recommendations and is not strictly enforcing everything in the guideline.  So, they are unlike a high-end land-based restaurant or private club that might still insist on a particular dress code.  They are more definite about what they do not allow and seem to enforce that for the most part (although reports since the re-start indicate Smart Casual nights have a more Casual look than in the past). 

 

So, the table is flipped and it's more like is the guest doesn't like the system, the guest can seek another cruise line that makes its customers toe the line, so to speak.  For us, we like the flexibility that Princess offers in reality with a range of reasonable dress accepted.

 

[SiliconCruiser]

Just got off an Alaskan cruise on the Ruby a few days ago.  I think I counted a total of about 4 tuxedos (one may have just been a dark suit with a bow tie.) Granted the Alaskan Inner Passage tends to be the least formal of any of the venues.  But the definition of "formal" may also be relative to the local demographic as well.  On my last three cruises, two Caribbean and one Alaskan, I left my tux at home.  On the Alaskan cruise, I brought a tie, but never used it.

[Kansas Gal]

4 hours ago, socmft said:

I wish they coud/would designate one dining room for formal dress and those who like to be around other formal dressers and the other dining room for casual dress.

 

Yes!  let's bring back steerage class so the formal wearers won't have to look at people who don't dress to their standards.  I heard a financial adviser say recently "no one is more impressed with your Coach bag than you."

[Eglesbrech]

1 hour ago, MissP22 said:

I don't know if you've cruised Princess lately but things have changed from that real formal atmosphere to that of a more relaxed vacation type of cruise. The formal dressing is still adhered to by people who choose to do so while the rest of the people just dress nicely without being force to comply to any strict standard. 

Even shorts on casual evenings are quite common. 

Times are changing. 

For as long as you keep telling folks that this is the case in your neck of the woods I will keep telling them that in Europe it is not. Most people dress for dinner here.

 

I do however entirely agree that it is absolutely an individual choice. I like formal dress, I like to feel elegant but it does not bother me at all if someone else chooses what they want to wear and that is more casual.

[GonzoWCS]

As expected this has gone off the rails.  Too easy...

 

Cheers

[PrincessLuver]

1 hour ago, SiliconCruiser said:

Just got off an Alaskan cruise on the Ruby a few days ago.  I think I counted a total of about 4 tuxedos (one may have just been a dark suit with a bow tie.) Granted the Alaskan Inner Passage tends to be the least formal of any of the venues.  But the definition of "formal" may also be relative to the local demographic as well.  On my last three cruises, two Caribbean and one Alaskan, I left my tux at home.  On the Alaskan cruise, I brought a tie, but never used it.

We are the Ruby now and Tuxes appear to be an endangered species…. This whole narrative that Princess Dining rooms on formal nights are flooded with black tie tuxes and women in ball gowns is pure cruise critic mythology!!!

[CruizinSusan70]

12 hours ago, scottca075 said:

What hasn't changed is it is the company's choice to set standards.

The standards mean nothing if they are not enforced.  Without enforcement, they are just window dressing that means nothing.  Witnessed it first hand on the Discovery for 14 nights in April.

[CruizinSusan70]

9 hours ago, Kansas Gal said:

 I heard a financial adviser say recently "no one is more impressed with your Coach bag than you."

I have a first class bag so I don't have to worry about it.

[MissP22]

13 hours ago, Eglesbrech said:

For as long as you keep telling folks that this is the case in your neck of the woods I will keep telling them that in Europe it is not. Most people dress for dinner here.

 

I do however entirely agree that it is absolutely an individual choice. I like formal dress, I like to feel elegant but it does not bother me at all if someone else chooses what they want to wear and that is more casual.

Well, I'll have to take you word that the people cruising Europe may be more formal in their appearance since it's been a very long time since we've cruised in that region.

My cruises lately have been to Mexico, Caribbean and Alaska, all of which have been on the casual dress side. 

Have the European cruises on Princess enforced the strict dress code like they used to many years ago on all their cruises or transitioned to giving people the choice to be more relaxed about their style?

[Eglesbrech]

37 minutes ago, MissP22 said:

Well, I'll have to take you word that the people cruising Europe may be more formal in their appearance since it's been a very long time since we've cruised in that region.

My cruises lately have been to Mexico, Caribbean and Alaska, all of which have been on the casual dress side. 

Have the European cruises on Princess enforced the strict dress code like they used to many years ago on all their cruises or transitioned to giving people the choice to be more relaxed about their style?

If you read their printed information then no nothing much has changed but in reality they probably let more slide than they used to eg no jacket.

 

I don’t honestly know how much they enforce. All I know is that you don’t see shorts etc at dinner but that could be down to enforcement or more likely it could just be that most people choose to dress for dinner as a social norm here.
 

Some of the best dressed on formal nights are actually the young folks. They seem to enjoy the chance to wear dressy clothes.

[MissP22]

25 minutes ago, Eglesbrech said:

If you read their printed information then no nothing much has changed but in reality they probably let more slide than they used to eg no jacket.

 

I don’t honestly know how much they enforce. All I know is that you don’t see shorts etc at dinner but that could be down to enforcement or more likely it could just be that most people choose to dress for dinner as a social norm here.
 

Some of the best dressed on formal nights are actually the young folks. They seem to enjoy the chance to wear dressy clothes.

So from what your saying is that Princess hasn't changed their wording on dress codes at all for Europe ......which is the same as in the Caribbean, Alaska and Mexico. They simply let people decide for themselves what is appropriate for any given night. 

People wearing shorts is still mentioned as not being acceptable but on our last cruise it was common to see many wearing them in the DR without anything being said. 

 

Princess has now taken the position of not wanting to take sides so to attract people on both sides, similar to other cruise lines have done. It wouldn't surprise me to see European cruises following the same unofficial rules as Princess cruises. 

 

[Ombud]

17 hours ago, Steelers36 said:

For us, we like the flexibility that Princess offers in reality with a range of reasonable dress accepted.

Agreed. I love the new 'dress to impress' instead of 2nd formal night, although I had to chuckle when they added 'no shorts' at Captains Party (and meant it)

[rbtan]

On 7/23/2022 at 7:16 AM, Cruise till you drop said:

Good golly miss Molly .  These formal dress threads are painful .  I mean really, who cares what other people wear , especially people that I will never ever see again.  And why are you trying so hard to impress those people (again that you’ll never see again).

 

When we travelled on Celebrity in 2020, I was over joyed that they do not have formal nights.  We could pack lighter and not have to endure the uncomfortable feeling of formalwear for 4-5 hours.  It was glorious.

 

Also if you think about it, in 100 years when we will all be wearing the same thing (silver space suit with a v neck like you see on sci-fi movies), there will be museums with wax statues of people wearing suits and formal dresses and kids will ask, is that what people really wore back then ?

Or they could dress like in the "Starship Troopers". Remember the student dance?

[billco]

2 hours ago, MissP22 said:

Princess has now taken the position of not wanting to take sides so to attract people on both sides, similar to other cruise lines have done. It wouldn't surprise me to see European cruises following the same unofficial rules as Princess cruises. 

 

We are currently on a European cruise (14 day Iceland Norway R/T Southampton). Last night was Dress to Impress. While there were some tuxes and suits, it seemed most were dressed smart and casual like any other night. The cat is out of the bag and traditional formal night is history. Time to move on.

[rbtan]

22 hours ago, socmft said:

I wish they coud/would designate one dining room for formal dress and those who like to be around other formal dressers and the other dining room for casual dress.

 

I totally agree here. There are usually, what, about 3 main restaurants on most Princess ships? Designate one for formal(establish what's considered formal) If it's tuxes, We'll not attend as we normally don't wear them anymore. If "minimum" dress is sport coat & tie, we'll go.

[Cruise till you drop]

23 hours ago, socmft said:

I wish they coud/would designate one dining room for formal dress and those who like to be around other formal dressers and the other dining room for casual dress.

 

This would be difficult as the dining room designated for casual dress will be oversold (and the other empty)

[MissP22]

41 minutes ago, billco said:

We are currently on a European cruise (14 day Iceland Norway R/T Southampton). Last night was Dress to Impress. While there were some tuxes and suits, it seemed most were dressed smart and casual like any other night. The cat is out of the bag and traditional formal night is history. Time to move on.

So your actually saying that the European cruise are just the same as any Princess cruise elsewhere. (which I suspected all along)

I believe Princess has finally joined the rest of cruising society by eliminating/downplaying the strict formal atmosphere and thus increasing the number of passengers that love the more casual vacation. 

As you say, it's time to move on.