Muster drill

[cruisinmeme]

So is NCL back to doing the real drill thing? I saw a picture somewhere that had people lined up outside.  Our last 4 or so cruises we gathered in the theater not outside. Maybe that is just where our location was for our cabin (theater)

will be on deck 14 on breakaway so goodness knows where it will be.  Never been up this high before. 

[BirdTravels]

6 minutes ago, cruisinmeme said:

So is NCL back to doing the real drill thing? I saw a picture somewhere that had people lined up outside.  Our last 4 or so cruises we gathered in the theater not outside. Maybe that is just where our location was for our cabin (theater) will be on deck 14 on breakaway so goodness knows where it will be.  Never been up this high before. 

We just got off a 7-day cruise, and it was still a virtual muster. No group gathering. 

[debenson0723]

I have been on around 15 NCL cruises and never once did we line up outside. My muster station was typically in the theatre or the Local. Since the restart, you do the muster drill via video and have your card scanned at your station once you board. Takes about 10 seconds. There was one video in a European port where the drill was done the old way but haven't seen any confirmation that it is that way on all ships.

[Oceansaway17]

3 minutes ago, debenson0723 said:

I have been on around 15 NCL cruises and never once did we line up outside. My muster station was typically in the theatre or the Local. Since the restart, you do the muster drill via video and have your card scanned at your station once you board. Takes about 10 seconds. There was one video in a European port where the drill was done the old way but haven't seen any confirmation that it is that way on all ships.

The cruises that do outside are the ones with lifeboats hanging above and also lots of deck space. Otherwise muster is done inside.

I like the new way of muster but then hate hearing them call for folks who are pokey

[cruisinmeme]

48 minutes ago, BirdTravels said:

We just got off a 7-day cruise, and it was still a virtual muster. No group gathering. 

Great and hope it is still that way Jan 8th

thanks

[MarkusToe]

On Bliss actually. 

Forced to view the safety video 2 times.

On first day directly after boarding to muster station, card scanned, finish.

[Travelling2Some]

We embarked from New York on the Sun last month and were surprised to have the traditional style muster drill.  I think we were all hoping that was gone for good.  As someone said, it may have to do with the Sun being an older ship with plenty of space on the lifeboat deck.  Before the cruise NCL must have sent me that safety video 6 or 7 times!

[phillygwm]

13 hours ago, debenson0723 said:

I have been on around 15 NCL cruises and never once did we line up outside. 

The only time I did a muster drill outside was on RCCL in 2001.  As I recall, we had to put our lifejackets on as well.

 

When I sailed on the Sky this Summer, I checked in outside but of course that was a 15 second process.

[BirdTravels]

14 hours ago, debenson0723 said:

I have been on around 15 NCL cruises and never once did we line up outside. 

Some of the small ships do traditional musters outside. We have been outside in the sun and cold on many cruises. 

[TrumpyNor]

I believe it is only on the Sun and the Spirit that muster drills are held outside on deck, probably due to size of ship....?

[Lady President]

On the Sun right now and we're having an in-person old school muster drill at 5:00. We had to watch a muster video twice, so I hoped that was it. No such luck. Sail away isn't until 9:00. I expect a lot of people will still be on shore. 

[don't-use-real-name]

For the first time new guest the Muster Drill is very important -

Also for frequent NCL guests on a ship they have not been on before -

What location is designated on the guests key card -

Where that gathering assemby location is AND visit it -

Remember to note the escape route posted on the back of the cabin door -

 

Those that try to skip the drill are not life savers -

 

In an emergency - this is not the time to ask ---
Where do I go -
What do I do -
What's the deal with the vests -
Why can't I use the elevators -

The SUN needs improvement instead of standing out on a cold wind swept deck
listening to a blaring deafening LOUDSPEAKER !

 

Oh you can not escape the requirement of the Muster Drill -

The cruise line will find you ferret you out (petty annoying announcements)

By the second day of the cruise have you do a Muster Drill make-up. 

Edited December 11, 2022 by don't-use-real-name

[chengkp75]

30 minutes ago, don't-use-real-name said:

The SUN needs improvement instead of standing out on a cold wind swept deck
listening to a blaring deafening LOUDSPEAKER !

This is the second mention of the Sun, in particular, going back to in person musters.  Along with the Disney decision to go back fleetwide, I suspect the days of the e-muster will be over within a year or two.

 

As for "improvements" to the Sun, until the IMO amends SOLAS, the Sun's muster stations will always be outdoors, under the boats.  Even if NCL spent the money to commission a study of crowd management, and upgrade various indoor venues to become "muster stations", the IMO would not allow them to be used, as there is sufficient space, per SOLAS, for the muster station to be "as close to the embarkation point as practicable".

[Captain-John]

I'm not for a minute suggesting it is advisable, but, given the likely panic of an evacuation situation, have there been studies showing how many people 'remember' where their muster station is, at exactly the time they are required to go there?

 

You can be at any point on the ship from bow to stern when an emergency strikes - is it not safer to proceed to the closest available muster/lifeboat station, rather than move from the opposite end of the ship say? Same reason they advise not to return to the cabin?

 

On a plane the advice is to use the nearest exit - although I appreciate there is a significantly compressed timescale with an aircraft emergency compared to one on a ship and smaller passenger numbers etc.

 

Are there any studies on real life emergencies to see how passengers behaved vs the 'expectation'/briefing?

[chengkp75]

2 minutes ago, Captain-John said:

Are there any studies on real life emergencies to see how passengers behaved vs the 'expectation'/briefing?

Yes, there have been studies of both successes and failures (I think it was the Deutschland that sank in WW2, where the location of bodies was studied to determine crowd behavior), that have been used to create computer paradigms which are used to determine acceptable muster station locations, etc.

 

4 minutes ago, Captain-John said:

You can be at any point on the ship from bow to stern when an emergency strikes - is it not safer to proceed to the closest available muster/lifeboat station, rather than move from the opposite end of the ship say?

No, unlike an airline emergency, where the need is to get you off the plane, a cruise ship passenger muster really has not a lot to do with boarding boats and evacuating the ship.  The muster is for accountability, to get passengers away from the emergency, into known and controlled areas where they can be accounted for.  If you just show up at any muster station, it completely disrupts the accounting (mustering) process, as that station leader will not have you on their list, and they will not want to clog the airwaves with messages from a muster station to the muster control that "so and so" is actually at a different station.  This could also lead to overcrowding of the muster location, exceeding the ingress/egress ability to get from the station to the boats, should that be necessary, or to get out of the station, should it become no longer tenable by the emergency.

 

9 minutes ago, Captain-John said:

have there been studies showing how many people 'remember' where their muster station is, at exactly the time they are required to go there?

This is why the in person muster drill is far superior to the e-muster, as it gives the crew, who are stationed around the ship, specifically for the guiding of passengers to their stations, a real life chance to deal with large, uncooperative crowds.

[Captain-John]

Thank you for the informed reply as ever.

 

3 minutes ago, chengkp75 said:

If you just show up at any muster station, it completely disrupts the accounting (mustering) process, as that station leader will not have you on their list, and they will not want to clog the airwaves with messages from a muster station to the muster control that "so and so" is actually at a different station

 

Yes absolutely agree, not helpful at all. Maybe I am doing humankind a disservice but I just cannot imagine compliance is high (intentional or otherwise, given the stressors of an emergency sitaution).

[ontheweb]

21 minutes ago, chengkp75 said:

Yes, there have been studies of both successes and failures (I think it was the Deutschland that sank in WW2, where the location of bodies was studied to determine crowd behavior), that have been used to create computer paradigms which are used to determine acceptable muster station locations, etc.

 

No, unlike an airline emergency, where the need is to get you off the plane, a cruise ship passenger muster really has not a lot to do with boarding boats and evacuating the ship.  The muster is for accountability, to get passengers away from the emergency, into known and controlled areas where they can be accounted for.  If you just show up at any muster station, it completely disrupts the accounting (mustering) process, as that station leader will not have you on their list, and they will not want to clog the airwaves with messages from a muster station to the muster control that "so and so" is actually at a different station.  This could also lead to overcrowding of the muster location, exceeding the ingress/egress ability to get from the station to the boats, should that be necessary, or to get out of the station, should it become no longer tenable by the emergency.

 

This is why the in person muster drill is far superior to the e-muster, as it gives the crew, who are stationed around the ship, specifically for the guiding of passengers to their stations, a real life chance to deal with large, uncooperative crowds.

Those who want the new e-muster, want it for convenience, not efficiency in case of a real need to muster. They would just as soon not have one, even more convenient.

[www3traveler]

If you want a fairly recent example of passenger and crew pandemonium not knowing what to do in case of an emergency- look at what happened on the Costa Concoria in January 2012.  Passengers and crew did not know where the Muster Stations among other issues.  People lost their lives that night and the Captain is finally serving a jail sentence.  Muster Drills in whatever form are extremely important.

[chengkp75]

7 minutes ago, www3traveler said:

If you want a fairly recent example of passenger and crew pandemonium not knowing what to do in case of an emergency- look at what happened on the Costa Concoria in January 2012.  Passengers and crew did not know where the Muster Stations among other issues.  People lost their lives that night and the Captain is finally serving a jail sentence.  Muster Drills in whatever form are extremely important.

If you read the official report on the Concordia, you will find that in fact the crew did well, and confusion was due to them following orders that a passenger muster was never called, so they sent people away.  In fact, a passenger muster was never called, but a single announcement to "abandon ship", which caused further confusion as this signals the crew to leave their emergency stations (which are to help passengers) and abandon ship.

[CruzinMel]

2 hours ago, chengkp75 said:

No, unlike an airline emergency, where the need is to get you off the plane, a cruise ship passenger muster really has not a lot to do with boarding boats and evacuating the ship.  The muster is for accountability, to get passengers away from the emergency, into known and controlled areas where they can be accounted for.  If you just show up at any muster station, it completely disrupts the accounting (mustering) process, as that station leader will not have you on their list, and they will not want to clog the airwaves with messages from a muster station to the muster control that "so and so" is actually at a different station.  This could also lead to overcrowding of the muster location, exceeding the ingress/egress ability to get from the station to the boats, should that be necessary, or to get out of the station, should it become no longer tenable by the emergency.

Thank you for this - it's the best explanation I've read yet of why we have to do the muster drills based on location of the station rather than pax location at the time of emergency.

I've done an outdoor drill once on RCCL, and I vastly prefer them.  Whenever we had to muster (mine usually ended up in the theater), I couldn't help thinking that in an emergency, the very LAST place I wanted to be was on a lower deck in a crowded theater.  My last muster was actually in the arcade on Escape, and it was vastly preferable to the theater.

[dexddd]

4 hours ago, TrumpyNor said:

I believe it is only on the Sun and the Spirit that muster drills are held outside on deck, probably due to size of ship....?

That sounds right and what we experienced on those two ships.

[chengkp75]

40 minutes ago, CruzinMel said:

I couldn't help thinking that in an emergency, the very LAST place I wanted to be was on a lower deck in a crowded theater.

Those inside locations have been studied and designed by maritime safety experts to ensure adequate ability to get people in and out, and to have additional structural fire protection.

[BirdTravels]

2 hours ago, ontheweb said:

Those who want the new e-muster, want it for convenience, not efficiency in case of a real need to muster. They would just as soon not have one, even more convenient.

There was a large group this week on the Prima who decided not to do the e-muster.... and ended up doing a protracted in-person make-up drill instead of being out on lounger 🙂 

Edited December 11, 2022 by BirdTravels

[ontheweb]

4 hours ago, BirdTravels said:

There was a large group this week on the Prima who decided not to do the e-muster.... and ended up doing a protracted in-person make-up drill instead of being out on lounger 🙂 

I am not surprised by this that many just skipped it.

 

I guess that is a good follow up by NCL for those who think they can get away with skipping the muster drill.

[don't-use-real-name]

7 hours ago, chengkp75 said:

If you read the official report on the Concordia, you will find that in fact the crew did well, and confusion was due to them following orders that a passenger muster was never called, so they sent people away.  In fact, a passenger muster was never called, but a single announcement to "abandon ship", which caused further confusion as this signals the crew to leave their emergency stations (which are to help passengers) and abandon ship.

Additional note the Costa Concordia was tilted on its side making all the life boats on that

side useless - the angle of the tilt which got worse made going to the other side of the ship

difficult and successfully launching the remaining boats.

Note that the crew did an excellent job in spite of the Captain's lacking instruction and then

he too jumped ship early on abandoning his duties.