In-person muster drills?

[wolft927]

Just now, PATRLR said:

Hmmm, calling @chengkp75

Well I too have worked on board cruise ships , 5 years been through all the training involved in all boat drills and life safety drills. I can speak from my experience and still only give opinions 

[chengkp75]

19 minutes ago, wolft927 said:

Ok quick question, is there anyone here that has been through SOLAS training? Anyone here work onboard a Cruise Ship or an ocean vessel with the same soles onboard? I understand everyone has opinions I’m just curious is there anyone with first hand experience 

Yes, 46 years at sea, 38 as Chief Engineer, had all my license examinations, all STCW required training (advanced firefighting, crowd and crisis management, designated security duties, engine room team management, tankerman engineer (DL), MARPOL)

 

SOLAS training (basic firefighting, advanced firefighting, lifesaving appliances)

 

 

[sailorusvi]

43 minutes ago, wolft927 said:

Ok quick question, is there anyone here that has been through SOLAS training? Anyone here work onboard a Cruise Ship or an ocean vessel with the same soles onboard? I understand everyone has opinions I’m just curious is there anyone with first hand experience 

 

🙋‍♀️

 

Not on a ship, but I worked on commercial passenger sailboats in the USVI.  I had to take STCW (Standards of Training Certificate & Watchman) courses 3 times (you had to renew every 5 years).   In additional to that I had to take Crowd Control courses (I think they were good for 5 years also, but not sure).

 

Eventually got my USCG license , (50 ton, with sailing and tow endorsements), which required additional training.

 

 

 

 

Edited February 14, 2023 by sailorusvi

[CJANDH]

On 2/12/2023 at 12:14 PM, Raleigh Traveler said:

We should be aware the there is a higher authority that determines muster drills, SOLAS. When it comes to cruise ships, "From 1 January 2015, passengers must undergo safety drills, including mustering at the lifeboat stations, before the ship departs or immediately on departure." Non in-person drills were allowed because of Covid. This has nothing to do with saving money by NCL but a return to a requirement by a higher authority.

Note that the statement is "including mustering". It does not say that everyone has to muster at the same time. The Emuster rules still ensure that everyone has to go to their muster station; just not all at once. I would suggest that the Emuster meets the requirements of the SOLAS rule.

[complawyer]

i wasnt going  to chime in on this one, but it seems to be getting away from everyone.  we were just on the jewel, and they had the in person muster drill. about 20 minutes of non-stop babbling in english, then another 20 in spanish. it was a great way to catch a few zzz's. 

 

obviously, i preferred the video (since we ere forced to watch it while checking in anyway,

 

but i can concede a few minutes of my time prior to sailing to listen to what they have to say. by the way, our muster point was in o'sheehan's, with no problem hearing the entire spiel.

[CJANDH]

3 hours ago, MoCruiseFan said:

I highly disagree and it is simple logic.  If you hold the drill at the exact place you are supposed to head to in a real emergency and go through the drill there, it is much more likely that folks will remember where to go as opposed to simply walking by and giving your name to some guy with a clipboard checking off names.  It's not like we are talking much time anyway.  Go to the assigned area, listen to the spiel, then go enjoy your cruise.

But that is just what the evolved Emuster does. You go to your muster station; sit with a small group and have a crew member explain the safety drill in a way you can hear it and ask questions. Then you leave and enjoy your cruise with, in my opinion, a much clearer understanding of what will happen in an emergency.

[chengkp75]

12 hours ago, ChiefMateJRK said:

Not the organizations, but I'm sure there are some overpaid experts on staff that are more interested in cashing inflated paychecks than finding better ways to do things.  It happens everywhere. 

Yeah, lots of overpaid USCG officers out there.  And who does the USCG invite to be a part of the "Cruise Ship National Center of Experience", to study cruise ship safety and operations?  Cruise line executives.  Now, they may be overpaid, but you seem to think they are not invested in the status quo.

[RocketMan275]

1 hour ago, ontheweb said:

Why---they know that the average passenger really does not want to go back to the old style muster because the new one is less painful and they are not thinking of the possibility of what might happen in a real emergency.

 

And with all the cutbacks they are making, they want to eliminate one more area that passengers might complain about and choose not to cruise with them.

The reason passengers complain about the old inpersonmuster is they perceive being forced to attend a briefing that they cannot hear or cannot sea is a waste of time.  

[ontheweb]

1 hour ago, RocketMan275 said:

The reason passengers complain about the old inpersonmuster is they perceive being forced to attend a briefing that they cannot hear or cannot sea is a waste of time.  

They complain because it interferes with their drinking and eating time. And they do not appreciate that it is for their safety.

[RocketMan275]

22 minutes ago, ontheweb said:

They complain because it interferes with their drinking and eating time. And they do not appreciate that it is for their safety.

It has more to do with wasting passengers time.  If you can't hear or see t he briefing, then there is no justifiable rationale for the briefing.  Even with the emuster, passengers must find their way to the muster point.

[scooter6139]

Interesting, I've never had a problem hearing or seeing the in-person drills when we did them.  But, I think @chengkp75 has pointed out, that's just fluff as the real drill goes on around you.  Since you are "in" your muster station, you have learned what you most likely need to know.  

 

I wonder if they can merge the two.  Do the video in your cabin (we can all agree most folks don't really watch it, right?) then go to the muster station while the crew does its thing.  Win-Win.

[chengkp75]

19 minutes ago, scooter6139 said:

I wonder if they can merge the two.  Do the video in your cabin (we can all agree most folks don't really watch it, right?) then go to the muster station while the crew does its thing.  Win-Win.

As I've said before, to these guys in this and other threads, the safety briefing has been allowed to be shown on the ship's TVs, and not at the muster drill, for many years, even before the e-muster was thought of.  They seem to conveniently miss that point, and think the only thing the muster drill is about is the safety briefing.  Fine with me to have a video safety briefing, and then the passengers can stand like dummies for the entire muster drill.  And, I have to laugh at the complaints about being "ordered into lines, and being shouted at for talking", when that is exactly what would be happening in a real emergency.

[MoCruiseFan]

3 hours ago, RocketMan275 said:

The reason passengers complain about the old inpersonmuster is they perceive being forced to attend a briefing that they cannot hear or cannot sea is a waste of time.  

 

If they would shut the hell up and listen they could hear.  I've never had a problem hearing nor have I had any problem asking someone next to me to stop jabbering if they are being rude by talking over the crew member making the presentation.  The reason they complain is because some people are not happy unless they find some reason to complain.

[chengkp75]

1 minute ago, MoCruiseFan said:

The reason they complain is because some people are not happy unless they find some reason to complain.

The reason they complain is because they feel entitled, and don't feel they should be ordered to do anything they don't like.

[RocketMan275]

30 minutes ago, MoCruiseFan said:

 

If they would shut the hell up and listen they could hear.  I've never had a problem hearing nor have I had any problem asking someone next to me to stop jabbering if they are being rude by talking over the crew member making the presentation.  The reason they complain is because some people are not happy unless they find some reason to complain.

My last inpersonmuster drill was conducted at the life boat station where we had to stand in front of a very loud blower that made it impossible to hear.  There were so many rows of people that one couldn't see the presentation.  

The reason people talk is because  they realize the muster brief is a waste of time.

[RocketMan275]

32 minutes ago, chengkp75 said:

The reason they complain is because they feel entitled, and don't feel they should be ordered to do anything they don't like.

that isn't it at all.  We complain because we perceive the inpersonmuster drill is a waste of time.

Could  you explain again why this briefing is worthwhile?

Edited February 15, 2023 by RocketMan275

[ChiefMateJRK]

33 minutes ago, chengkp75 said:

The reason they complain is because they feel entitled, and don't feel they should be ordered to do anything they don't like.

This.  I paid for my vacation and feel entitled to enjoy every minute without being ordered to do something meaningless for 45 minutes just because some experts say that it is going to save my life.  I'll go sit in my cabin with my beverage of choice and rewatch the video while the nervous folks crowd under a lifeboat with their (virtual) security blankets.  Win-win!😎

[chengkp75]

4 minutes ago, RocketMan275 said:

that isn't it at all.  We complain because we perceive the inpersonmuster drill is a waste of time.

Could  you explain again why this briefing is worthwhile?

Perhaps you've missed reading the various posts I've made about the safety briefing, including the one two posts above the one you quote:

 

1 hour ago, chengkp75 said:

As I've said before, to these guys in this and other threads, the safety briefing has been allowed to be shown on the ship's TVs, and not at the muster drill, for many years, even before the e-muster was thought of.

[chengkp75]

1 minute ago, ChiefMateJRK said:

This.  I paid for my vacation and feel entitled to enjoy every minute without being ordered to do something meaningless for 45 minutes just because some experts say that it is going to save my life.  I'll go sit in my cabin with my beverage of choice and rewatch the video while the nervous folks crowd under a lifeboat with their (virtual) security blankets.  Win-win!😎

I hope the crew feel differently about spending their valuable time both training, and actually saving your entitled life.  If I were a crew member who heard this attitude, I wouldn't lift a finger to save you.

[SimplyAlbert]

On 2/5/2023 at 10:19 AM, cheersforbeers said:

Just off Breakaway on a B2B and in person drill was mandatory. Like in past drill would not start until all checked in. Our station was in the Manhattan and it was packed. 

 We were on the Feb. 6-13 sailing and it was the same.

[RocketMan275]

2 hours ago, chengkp75 said:

Perhaps you've missed reading the various posts I've made about the safety briefing, including the one two posts above the one you quote:

 

IIRC, you stated the safety briefing was just filler and it didn't matter if one could hear or see the briefing. 

IIRC, you stated that one could always watch the video in addition to the 'fluff' briefing at the muster point.  

In effect,  you have admitted that there is no rational justitification to the impersonmuster drill since watching a video is better training.  

You have also demonstrated a fundamental disregard for the passengers when you state the passengers can just " stand like dummies for the entire muster drill.  And, I have to laugh at the complaints about being "ordered into lines, and being shouted at for talking", when that is exactly what would be happening in a real emergency."

 

But here is the real question: why does Royal and Carnival consider the emuster to be superior to the inpersonmuster?

Edited February 15, 2023 by RocketMan275

[chengkp75]

3 minutes ago, RocketMan275 said:

IIRC, you stated the safety briefing was just filler and it didn't matter if one could hear or see the briefing. 

It isn't that important, but you seem to think that it is the main training involved with the muster drill, and also the main complaint that it was not able to be seen/heard, so I pointed out that it is allowed to be done outside of the muster drill.

[RocketMan275]

2 minutes ago, chengkp75 said:

It isn't that important, but you seem to think that it is the main training involved with the muster drill, and also the main complaint that it was not able to be seen/heard, so I pointed out that it is allowed to be done outside of the muster drill.

that doesn't justify the farcical training presently conducted.

[JGmf]

I'm inexplicably reading this thread as it meanders into absurdity, hoping for new insights, finding none, but also hoping for when the hammer falls and shuts it down.

[chengkp75]

2 minutes ago, RocketMan275 said:

that doesn't justify the farcical training presently conducted.

I'm sorry, little confused here.  What farcical training are you talking about?  The safety briefing you feel is so important?  If you can do the safety briefing via video, your main complaint about the in person muster goes away.  It reverts to realistic training for mustering, and you can stand there during the drill and listen to nothing.