In-person muster drills?

[BirdTravels]

3 minutes ago, RocketMan275 said:

Train the crew however you wish as long as you're not coopting the  passengers to be training aids.

But isn't this the very point of having the crew in the muster. Allow them to understand management of disobedient passengers ("no cell phones", "no drinks", "shut up")

[RocketMan275]

1 minute ago, BirdTravels said:

But isn't this the very point of having the crew in the muster. Allow them to understand management of disobedient passengers ("no cell phones", "no drinks", "shut up")

You can use members of the crew acting as passengers to train the crew in unruly passenger management.  Relying upon the passengers means you will not be able to control the amount of disruption, the duration, or the frequency.  Which means poor training.  Port days would be an excellent time to do so.

[chengkp75]

27 minutes ago, RocketMan275 said:

Train the crew however you wish as long as you're not coopting the  passengers to be training aids.

So, what you are saying is that "being able to find your muster station" meets the objective of the passenger muster drill, but not for the crew muster drill.  Crew must be dumber than passengers, then, and their time less valuable than passengers.

 

22 minutes ago, RocketMan275 said:

Port days would be an excellent time to do so.

So, the poor passengers who remain onboard on port days are subjected to reduced passenger services for longer than the required crew drill, so that the vast majority of the crew can leave their duties and train as "passengers" or those herding passengers.  They also get to be subjected to interference in their cabins and public spaces as the crew search those areas (don't recycle your fantasy that the crew can do this during their incredibly busy turn around day), and the crew have to give up any chance of shore leave in order to participate in another drill.  

 

Lots of regard for "the hired help" here.

[farmecologist]

Back from the Joy Feb 12-19th sailing.  The muster was "in person"...our muster station was in the theatre.  Yes, we had to sit there for around 15-20 minutes. We did "learn how to use a life jacket"...but not sure we would remember everything in an emergency. 

 

All in all, It wasn't as bad as I thought it would be...considering all the gloom and doom here ( I'm guilty of that as well...haha ).  However, we DID mask up during the muster, and also masked up a lot on the ship, per other discussions on here.  Very few were masking, I'd say 5 percent or less...as expected.  The ship seemed to turn into a bit of a petri dish towards the end of the cruise ( more and more people with a wet cough ).  We seem fine so far...so maybe masking actually worked!  

Edited February 20, 2023 by farmecologist

[LloydJr]

Does the crew really need this training every trip?  Why not do the in-person once every six to eight weeks and a simpler version the rest of the time?  If the training doesn't "stick" for more than seven days, it must not be very good training.

[sailorusvi]

7 minutes ago, LloydJr said:

Does the crew really need this training every trip?  Why not do the in-person once every six to eight weeks and a simpler version the rest of the time?  If the training doesn't "stick" for more than seven days, it must not be very good training.

 

Muscle memory. Getting comfortable with their muster role (which maybe new from the  last time.

 

Crew changes often. i.e. I've meet a bunch of new crew, others coming off of 3 month vacations, etc. I know at least 3 people going on vacation tomorrow from Port Canaveral, meaning new crew arrive tomorrow. 

 

By your logic sports teams shouldn't practice daily because it should have stuck from the last time.

[RocketMan275]

33 minutes ago, chengkp75 said:

So, what you are saying is that "being able to find your muster station" meets the objective of the passenger muster drill, but not for the crew muster drill.  Crew must be dumber than passengers, then, and their time less valuable than passengers.

 

So, the poor passengers who remain onboard on port days are subjected to reduced passenger services for longer than the required crew drill, so that the vast majority of the crew can leave their duties and train as "passengers" or those herding passengers.  They also get to be subjected to interference in their cabins and public spaces as the crew search those areas (don't recycle your fantasy that the crew can do this during their incredibly busy turn around day), and the crew have to give up any chance of shore leave in order to participate in another drill.  

 

Lots of regard for "the hired help" here.

Yes, I have more regard for the crew than you have for the passengers.  You've stated the reason the passengers are involved in the inpersonmuster only so the crew can yell at them and order them around.

 

The scenario driven crew muster does not require a large number of crew to act as passengers. Nor does it require all of the crew to participate at the same time.  Participation can be staged over several periods without undue disruption to passengers.   The crew gets ample time in clearing the ship during disembarkation.  Use your imagination to improve the muster drill. Just because it's always done that way doesn't mean that is the best way.  BTW, Royal and Carnival, the two largest cruise lines seem to have found a way to train their crew that doesn't require the inpersonmuster.

Edited February 20, 2023 by RocketMan275

[sailorusvi]

7 minutes ago, LloydJr said:

Does the crew really need this training every trip?  Why not do the in-person once every six to eight weeks and a simpler version the rest of the time?  If the training doesn't "stick" for more than seven days, it must not be very good training.

 

Muscle memory. Getting comfortable with their muster role (which maybe new from the  last time.

 

Crew changes often. i.e. I've meet a bunch of new crew, others coming off of 3 month vacations, etc. I know at least 3 people going on vacation tomorrow from Port Canaveral, meaning new crew arrive tomorrow. 

 

By your logic sports teams shouldn't practice daily because it should have stuck from the last time.

[sailorusvi]

7 minutes ago, LloydJr said:

Does the crew really need this training every trip?  Why not do the in-person once every six to eight weeks and a simpler version the rest of the time?  If the training doesn't "stick" for more than seven days, it must not be very good training.

 

Muscle memory. Getting comfortable with their muster role (which maybe new from the  last time.

 

Crew changes often. i.e. I've meet a bunch of new crew, others coming off of 3 month vacations, etc. I know at least 3 people going on vacation tomorrow from Port Canaveral, meaning new crew arrive tomorrow. 

 

By your logic sports teams shouldn't practice daily because it should have stuck from the last time.

[ontheweb]

8 minutes ago, sailorusvi said:

 

Muscle memory. Getting comfortable with their muster role (which maybe new from the  last time.

 

Crew changes often. i.e. I've meet a bunch of new crew, others coming off of 3 month vacations, etc. I know at least 3 people going on vacation tomorrow from Port Canaveral, meaning new crew arrive tomorrow. 

 

By your logic sports teams shouldn't practice daily because it should have stuck from the last time.

And let's not forget firefighters. They also train constantly.

[LloydJr]

14 minutes ago, sailorusvi said:

By your logic sports teams shouldn't practice daily because it should have stuck from the last time.

Are you suggesting that we now do daily muster drills?  I don't think that will go over very well. 

[wcook]

Everyone should get the option to pick up a roll playing card for the muster drill. Let’s face it, in a real emergency everyone won’t be playing the roll of “bored passenger who just wants to get this over with.” Let’s give the crew some real tests. “My ba-by. I’ve lost my ba-by. Won’t somebody please help me find my ba-by.”

 

One card will read “You are Thurston Howell IV. Bring six pieces of luggage to the muster drill and insist that all six go into the lifeboat with you.”

Edited February 20, 2023 by wcook

[ggTexasGal]

8 minutes ago, wcook said:

Everyone should get the option to pick up a roll playing card for the muster drill. Let’s face it, in a real emergency everyone won’t be playing the roll of “bored passenger who just wants to get this over with.” Let’s give the crew some real tests. “My ba-by. I’ve lost my ba-by. Won’t somebody please help me find my ba-by.”

 

One card will read “You are Thurston Howell IV. Bring six pieces of luggage to the muster drill and insist that all six go into the lifeboat with you.”

Humorous, but certainly does make me sit back and applaud your thoughts!!!

[EngrJones]

1 hour ago, sailorusvi said:

Muscle memory.

It may actually be insulting to the crew to make them do this every cruise.  These are smart people and they aren't really being asked to do anything to the limits of their abilities.

[chengkp75]

11 hours ago, EngrJones said:

It may actually be insulting to the crew to make them do this every cruise.  These are smart people and they aren't really being asked to do anything to the limits of their abilities.

While the crew may not look forward to the weekly drill, they realize this is what keeps their skills sharp.  As you say, they are smart people and know that repetition has been shown to be the best training possible, regardless of how smart the participants are.  Also, it is known that regardless of how much training a person has, until a real emergency happens, you don't know whether that person will respond to the emergency or not (run into the fire or away).  The crew know that muscle memory is what is needed to improve the odds that the proper response will be produced, without conscious thought.  As noted before, firefighters are not stupid, and they train almost daily.  What is insulting to the crew is when passengers, who the crew are training to save, have no respect for them or what they are trying to do, and don't accept any responsibility for helping the crew to accomplish this.

Edited February 21, 2023 by chengkp75

[The Traveling Man]

On 2/20/2023 at 3:36 PM, sailorusvi said:

 

Muscle memory. Getting comfortable with their muster role (which maybe new from the  last time.

Agree!!!  I don’t mind spending a few minutes standing in a crowd if it means that everybody has at least actually stood where they are supposed to be in an emergency.

[LloydJr]

On 2/15/2023 at 3:16 PM, chengkp75 said:

It is the passengers' responsibility to learn to work with, and obey the orders of the crew.  Cause when there is an emergency, there will be orders, and some folks' feelings will obviously be hurt, based on the comments here.

Apparently, NCL is now issuing a final word on this, and it doesn't involve the passengers learning to "obey" any "orders."  It appears they figured out who the customer is.

(🐀p🐻)

Edited March 20, 2023 by LloydJr

[chengkp75]

5 hours ago, LloydJr said:

Apparently, NCL is now issuing a final word on this, and it doesn't involve the passengers learning to "obey" any "orders."  It appears they figured out who the customer is.

(🐀p🐻)

And, based on reports here on CC about an RCI ship that had a passenger muster due to a potential man overboard emergency, the e-muster drill is not providing the safety that should be required, in favor of "the customer's" comfort.  After 5 days onboard the ship, the muster was apparently chaotic, even though it was announced as a "non-emergency" muster, due to many passengers not knowing even what deck their muster station was on.

[Dr. Cocktail]

On 2/20/2023 at 3:11 PM, farmecologist said:

 However, we DID mask up during the muster, and also masked up a lot on the ship, per other discussions on here.  Very few were masking, I'd say 5 percent or less...as expected.  The ship seemed to turn into a bit of a petri dish towards the end of the cruise ( more and more people with a wet cough ).  We seem fine so far...so maybe masking actually worked!  

Just off Regent and the coughs increased daily, as above!

 

We plan on masking up for muster, the big shows and crowded clubs. Did you encounter any nastiness towards your wearing a mask?

 

Thanks!

[ontheweb]

2 hours ago, chengkp75 said:

And, based on reports here on CC about an RCI ship that had a passenger muster due to a potential man overboard emergency, the e-muster drill is not providing the safety that should be required, in favor of "the customer's" comfort.  After 5 days onboard the ship, the muster was apparently chaotic, even though it was announced as a "non-emergency" muster, due to many passengers not knowing even what deck their muster station was on.

I think the question that should really be asked is if the muster drill is not for safety training (both passengers and crew), why even bother having one required. Yes, I realize it is mandated, but why mandate something that no longer serves its function?

[luckyinpa]

posted from another forum

 

OPERATIONAL ANNOUNCEMENT

 

Muster Drills Update
In an effort to enhance the onboard guest experience while keeping the safety of our guests and crew our top priority, we will reinstate e-muster drills through our online check-in for sailings beginning April 1, 2023. We are committed to delivering an exceptional and safe experience on board and, as such, will continue to actively evaluate and modify our processes for best practices. Please stay tuned for more information regarding effective dates for specific ships throughout the month of April.

[chengkp75]

14 minutes ago, ontheweb said:

I think the question that should really be asked is if the muster drill is not for safety training (both passengers and crew), why even bother having one required. Yes, I realize it is mandated, but why mandate something that no longer serves its function?

I think the rationale used to justify the e-muster is that it does provide safety training.  The question is not whether the drill has no function, but whether the "training" the e-muster provides is what is intended by, and adequate for, the SOLAS regulation.  These kinds of real life applications of the e-muster training is what is needed to evaluate the effectiveness of the muster, and while the lines claim that the information is presented better, and received better, in the e-muster format, this pertains to the information that is contained in the video presentation, and the video presentation has for years been an accepted adjunct to the traditional muster drill.

[RocketMan275]

8 hours ago, LloydJr said:

Apparently, NCL is now issuing a final word on this, and it doesn't involve the passengers learning to "obey" any "orders."  It appears they figured out who the customer is.

(🐀p🐻)

NCL is just getting in step with Royal and Carnival who never re-instituted the inpersonmuster.  

[RocketMan275]

24 minutes ago, ontheweb said:

I think the question that should really be asked is if the muster drill is not for safety training (both passengers and crew), why even bother having one required. Yes, I realize it is mandated, but why mandate something that no longer serves its function?

'We've always done it this way, therefore we must continue to do it this way'.

[justhappy]

I think this is the smart move by NCL. In January on the Escape, the in-person muster was a huge waste of time. On a ship with over  4600 passengers we were jammed into OSheehans, where we couldn’t hear anything, see anything and stood inches from others for 48 minutes. People were talking, drinking, on their cell phones, and otherwise not paying attention, good luck to anyone who actually tried to get useful information.

And although the muster was in person we still had to watch the muster video during on line check in, as well as getting almost daily email reminders to watch the video. 🤷‍♀️