Dogs on the ship

[rbslos18]

Service animals have a year or more of training. They enable their owners to be safe and function. By law they must be allowed in public places in the US. I have observed their training, am awestruck, and donate funds to enable their training. What these animals do is amazing. One dog, I regularly see, knows 83 commands. We are not allowed to go near her without the owner’s permission.

 

Emotional service animals do not require any training. In the US they are not required admission in public places. One can send away for an ESA certificate but then again anyone can become an ordained clergy person in the US for $100.00, maybe less. Animals on a bed will be a disaster for asthmatics allergic to animal dander.
 

[philw1776]

Viking tellus called me. I informed them about my experience with service animal behavior and their owner+animal training. I emphasized that the issue was ALLEGED service animals, noticeable by their untrained behavior. Suggested that when guests notice such behavior (feeding dogs from table, dogs on furniture)*  from owners+animals that should not have been let aboard that staff not handle it but that Hotel Manager or Restaurant Manager level handle the issue by discretely putting the guest on notice. Guest should be told that repeated pet bad behavior is grounds for being removed from ship at next port.

 

*Service trained dogs+owners do not do this

Edited April 1, 2023 by philw1776

[Heidi13]

This thread is most informative, especially posts from the Chief with respect to the US  ADA requirements and Sunflower & Scientist regarding the training requirements for a genuine service dog and also the handler.

 

Since no business can request proof of training, or request the dog demonstrate the required tasks, when the ships sail in US Waters, and fall under the jurisdiction of the ADA, I suggest Viking need to develop a detailed service dog code of conduct. This could be developed with the assistance of a National Guide Dog Association, with the standards based on the training provided to, and the conduct of a genuine guide dog.

 

Any pax requesting to bring a "Service" animal should be provided with a copy of the code of conduct. The pax should provide Viking an attestation that they have read and understand the requirements, and that their "Service" animal meets the code of conduct. Once aboard, failure of the handler and/or service animal to comply will result with removal from the ship at the next port of call.

 

The Code of Conduct should also clearly state that in the event the vessel is evacuated, no animals will be permitted in the Survival Craft. This alone may dissuade some from bringing their pets aboard.

 

With respect to the mut shown in the photo posted. I just noted, in addition to being on a seat, the dog is not properly leashed. Yes, it has a leash attached to the dog, but the handler is not holding the leash. Another post indicted the same mut was alone by the pool, while the handler was in the pool. Again, the dog is not properly leashed. Both these infractions should be grounds for removing the handler and mut from the ship.

 

Once a few pets are subjected to involuntary disembarkation, word will quickly spread and the current problem will be quickly solved. Just requires the Master and GM to have some intestinal fortitude, something I find is increasingly lacking in modern managers/supervisors. As a Master, I had no problem dealing with these issues, but that is probably why it was time for me to retire.😁

 

 

[Sunflower & The Scientist]

37 minutes ago, Heidi13 said:

Any pax requesting to bring a "Service" animal should be provided with a copy of the code of conduct. The pax should provide Viking an attestation that they have read and understand the requirements, and that their "Service" animal meets the code of conduct. Once aboard, failure of the handler and/or service animal to comply will result with removal from the ship at the next port of call.

Well put....this is exactly what they should do. It will only work if they follow through and remove the offenders at the next port. Empty threats are worthless. 

[Peregrina651]

42 minutes ago, Heidi13 said:

The pax should provide Viking an attestation that they have read and understand the requirements and penalties, and that their "Service" animal meets the code of conduct.

 

If they are putting their signature to this document, it should also include the penalties. They should have to attest that they understand the penalties for ignoring the code of conduct.

 

 

[Twitchly]

2 hours ago, Heidi13 said:

The Code of Conduct should also clearly state that in the event the vessel is evacuated, no animals will be permitted in the Survival Craft. This alone may dissuade some from bringing their pets aboard.

I think you’re onto something here.

[millybess]

Actually I think that this issue is mostly unfair to the staff. Imagine being a cabin steward and not knowing if the dog is unattended in the cabin when you enter.  Or if you’re a waiter and the dog is (or isn’t) under the table. 
 

I love dogs and I’ve always had a dog since I can remember. But dogs aren’t for everyone and shouldn’t be forced on anyone. 

[DGHOC]

7 hours ago, rbslos18 said:

Service animals have a year or more of training. They enable their owners to be safe and function. By law they must be allowed in public places in the US. I have observed their training, am awestruck, and donate funds to enable their training. What these animals do is amazing. One dog, I regularly see, knows 83 commands. We are not allowed to go near her without the owner’s permission.

 

Emotional service animals do not require any training. In the US they are not required admission in public places. One can send away for an ESA certificate but then again anyone can become an ordained clergy person in the US for $100.00, maybe less. Animals on a bed will be a disaster for asthmatics allergic to animal dander.
 

Thanks for highlighting this rbslos18. I'm asthmatic and allergic. I would be very unwell indeed sleeping on a bed that a dog had previously slept on. I'm so astonished by this thread, it hadn't even occurred to me that dogs would be allowed on board, excluding true service dogs of course.

 

My word, we are increasingly living in a me me me culture, it's all about me. I truly hope that Viking finds a way to stamp down on these selfish, entitled, egocentrics. If not, they may find themselves in a situation where passengers are made very seriously ill as a result, I feel sure that they will wish to protect themselves from that situation and the potential repercussions of it!

[florafun]

If you are sailing on the Star tomorrow after we disembark in Barcelona, and are allergic to dogs, one of the dogs was in cabin 4067 which was next to us. I don't know what cabins the other three dogs were in.

I filled out the final questionnaire today and expressed my extreme displeasure with the surprise of finding three dogs onboard. 

[florafun]

Oops, four dogs, not three.

[cruisinchrissy]

I am really intrigued as to how they are getting their dogs home from Spain?

I live in the UK and we used to take our dog out to Spain with us when we had a holiday home out there. It’s a palaver getting your dog home again. Vet checks , paperwork etc. Surely they’re not flying them home?

We used to take our dog out 24hrs on Santander Ferry. Dedicated dog cabin and excercise area. Not allowed to roam the Ship obviously. 24 hrs was enough for me (and my dog ) . 
I think it’s cruel taking a dog on a TA voyage.

[rbslos18]

Dear Viking,

Fear not! A simple online search of “service animals on cruise ships” finds plenty of well-thought out, robust policies other cruise lines have developed over the years. There are advantages to being one of the newer ocean cruise lines. My advice—Copy, paste and reword. It will take less time to develop this policy than it took to read these 287 posts. Viking—You’ve got this!
Thanks,

RB

[deec]

FloraFun  did you ever hear the dog next door?  or chat with the neighbor about how/why they were allowed to bring the dog?  This whole thing boggles my mind!!!  NO DOGS!!!

[SailorPat1]

I am TERRIBLY DISAPPOINTED  to read about dogs allowed on Viking Ocean ships.  I have cruised on Viking’s Star, Sun, Sea, Orion and Jupiter — so I am not a newbie at world-wide cruising.  I have never seen animals aboard any of my 300 + days sailing on these magnificent ships.  I do not support allowing any dogs, cats, goats, pigs . . . any animals!   I am allergic to dog, cat and even horse dander so exposure to those in any public spaces where they have been in upholstery or even where dander is stirred up from foot traffic across carpeting is very bad for me.   Furthermore, if I move into a stateroom that previously had an animal in it, how will Viking totally eradicate the dander?  
 

This topic is so important to me — some of the same elements as not allowing smoking except in the one small, outdoor area — that unless this policy is changed I will have to evaluate my future bookings. 

[lackcreativity]

Having followed this thread from the beginning, but having the attention span of a goldfish, has it been confirmed that this new issue of dogs onboard Viking ships is limited to ships embarking  from US ports?

[philw1776]

23 minutes ago, lackcreativity said:

Having followed this thread from the beginning, but having the attention span of a goldfish, has it been confirmed that this new issue of dogs onboard Viking ships is limited to ships embarking  from US ports?

In my phone call Saturday with Viking tellus I addressed that when they mentioned ADA. I said that's the AMERICAN Disabilities Act, not the Norwegian, Italian, etc. I asked if it was just on US departing cruises that the animals were aboard. She did not know.
The weakest part of her response when she stated that they cleaned the staterooms so well that dog allergies couldn't happen to the next occupant. Baloney. But I did not respond because I like the idea of Viking cleaning their staterooms as well as is practically possible. Maybe lemonade from the dogs aboard lemons. Daughter & 18 yr old granddaughter allergic to dogs.
No question Viking is feeling the heat on this one. Keep it up peeps.
Silversea explicitly does not allow this stuff to happen.
 

Edited April 2, 2023 by philw1776

[Traveler1977]

I like animals, but unfortunately I am allergic to them. I would not want to be in a cabin that had been previously occupied by a dog.  I don’t care how good they claim their cabin cleaning will be. 
 

We are in a society where people take their pets everywhere.  You can’t go to a grocery store without seeing several dogs in the store at any given time.  I’ve seen large 80 lb plus dogs being fed samples of food from the deli counter by their owners and small dogs propped up in the section of shopping carts where young children normally sit.  These stores do not do any extra cleaning.  I have spoken to store managers who state there is nothing they can do. 

[Moonlion]

The more I think about this, I'm puzzled why Viking can't charge fare for the animal, even if discounted.  For example, there are individuals with severe physical or cognitive disabilities who require (human) caretakers to assist them with daily living activities. Does Viking allow a human caretaker on board without charging some kind of fare? If not, then they are discriminating against those passengers who require a human caretaker versus a service animal to assist with their disabilities. My brother, for example, has severe cerebral palsy and would not be able to go on a cruise without a companion to help him. 

 

Also, given that some people are severely allergic to dogs, I would suggest that Viking designate one of two cabins that can accommodate service animals.  If the ship is sold out except for the cabins allowing service animals, passengers can be informed that these types of cabins are sill available, and perhaps be charged a discounted fare (unless they bring a service animal of course).   

[florafun]

No, deec, I never heard any of the dogs bark. I also did not wish to engage in conversation with any of the dog owners.

[Jim Avery]

Cunard charges a fairly hefty fare for dogs to travel in their kennels.  If these pets in a vest are traveling at no charge then Viking owes us all a free drink.🍸

[Moonlion]

2 minutes ago, Jim Avery said:

Cunard charges a fairly hefty fare for dogs to travel in their kennels.  If these pets in a vest are traveling at no charge then Viking owes us all a free drink.🍸

If someone requires a service animal because they are blind or have a life threatening condition (labile diabetes, severe seizures or allergic reactions, etc.), then the animal will need to remain with the individual at all times including at night in their cabin (having kennels would not work in these cases); however, the person would also need to bring the animal on excursions to assist them with these conditions. If the individual is able to go on excursions, while leaving animal in cabin, a reasonable person could question the motivations.  

[Heidi13]

17 hours ago, Sunflower & The Scientist said:

Well put....this is exactly what they should do. It will only work if they follow through and remove the offenders at the next port. Empty threats are worthless. 

 

One of your previous posts where you outlined the training and standards required for genuine guide dogs got me thinking how to include these in a code of conduct/standards that is acceptable under the ADA and other national equivalents.

 

I recall you posted the guide dog must go outside on demand and to hold at all other times, so I have figured how cruise lines can incorporate this requirement.

 

During an emergency situation, the Master sounds the General Emergency Signal, at which time pax muster in the Assembly Stations. Based on Viking Sky and the Star Princess, this can be for many hours. While in the Assembly Stations, pax should not leave, unless accompanied by a crew member, to assist selecting safe routes. The crew are busy with numerous tasks, so cannot be expected to take dogs outside, at any time. I'll suggest, in these circumstances, it is reasonable to expect that the dogs can wait until a crew member is available, and then all dogs would go outside and do their business on demand.

 

Genuine guide dogs are trained to this standard, so should have no problems with compliance. The pets onboard Viking Star, probably not so much.

[hersheyhughes]

I am afraid if Viking does not act on this issue they will have more non paying "service dogs" than paying passengers on board.

We leave from Montreal in July for a cruise around Canada to New York.  We are thinking about booking a Panama Canal cruise. With all this discussion I am Leary of booking. Will see what transpires!

[Twitchly]

4 hours ago, Moonlion said:

Also, given that some people are severely allergic to dogs, I would suggest that Viking designate one of two cabins that can accommodate service animals. 

Yes. My dog allergy isn’t life-threatening, but it sure would make me miserable if I slept in a room formerly occupied by a dog. I don’t care how thoroughly they vacuum. Been there, done that, and it’s no fun.
 

If Viking is intent on allowing dogs onboard, set aside special cabins for them so the rest of us don’t sneeze and drip and hack (and get dirty looks from passengers who think we have COVID). And definitely keep them off the furniture in public spaces. 🤧

[Jim Avery]

Even easier,  no dogs.