How are you feeling about the cuts the cruise lines are making to "recover" covid loss of income?

[gardenbug22]

 I was excited to finally be back on a ship after covid calmed down. It was my 10th cruise. 

 

Things I notced and missed on the ship where the lack of varied activities.  However they sure didn't lack in trivial games and what I call spa pushes!  The Theater was under untilized. We never had the shows put on by the entertainment dancers and band .. which were always something to look forward to. Our ship had a comedian who was  crude do 3 shows and there was a woman who's claim to fame seemed to be kicking up her right leg after every song she sang or story she told. .  The choices, as well as the quality in the food offered in the MDR were greatly reduced. Staff was very stressed out and it showed in the dining room.   The music around the ship is normally top of the line ... this time not so much... Anyone have any thoughts ?  

[Shmoo here]

55 minutes ago, gardenbug22 said:

 I was excited to finally be back on a ship after covid calmed down. It was my 10th cruise. 

 

Things I notced and missed on the ship where the lack of varied activities.  However they sure didn't lack in trivial games and what I call spa pushes!  The Theater was under untilized. We never had the shows put on by the entertainment dancers and band .. which were always something to look forward to. Our ship had a comedian who was  crude do 3 shows and there was a woman who's claim to fame seemed to be kicking up her right leg after every song she sang or story she told. .  The choices, as well as the quality in the food offered in the MDR were greatly reduced. Staff was very stressed out and it showed in the dining room.   The music around the ship is normally top of the line ... this time not so much... Anyone have any thoughts ?  

Which cruise line?

[navybankerteacher]

Those cuts really have little to do with Covid - they are part of the business plan of all mass market lines:  improve bottom line by cutting costs -  because another element is to fill bunks on the increasingly oversized ships by keeping fares low.  They have essentially trashed their product: making folks who want a good experience switch to Azamera, Oceania, Seaborn , etc.  

[mom says]

My thoughts include, but aren't limited to feeling more confident in our decision to prioritize  land travel and resort stays over cruising.  And that in future our cruises will be on out of the ordinary itineraries and premium or luxury lines. I think we're  done with the mass market lines, including Princess and Celebrity.

[njhorseman]

58 minutes ago, navybankerteacher said:

Those cuts really have little to do with Covid

I disagree. The cruise lines lost billions of dollars during the pandemic and had to get their substantial debt burdens restructured in order to avoid default. This resulted in what will be many years of repayment of debts now carrying  much higher junk bond-like interest rates than previously. The result is that cruise lines both raised fares substantially and noticeably cut services in order to generate the cash needed to pay their debt service.

[navybankerteacher]

14 minutes ago, njhorseman said:

I disagree. The cruise lines lost billions of dollars during the pandemic and had to get their substantial debt burdens restructured in order to avoid default. This resulted in what will be many years of repayment of debts now carrying  much higher junk bond-like interest rates than previously. The result is that cruise lines both raised fares substantially and noticeably cut services in order to generate the cash needed to pay their debt service.

Have they REALLY raised fares all that much?  It sure does not look like it in promotional ads.

 

But there is NO DOUBT about their cutting services — which was ordained a few years before Covid hit when they ordered their new classes of mega-ships.  Are you aware of how long it takes to start filling cabins after a line decides to order a ship?

[Vagabondx77]

NCL reduced its housekeeping services from 2 to 1 for non-Haven travelers. I feel really bummed about spending all this time being loyal to them so I would become a Platinum member and soon Sapphire just to have services cut back. I wish it was at least an option for those of us that like to refresh after we come back from tours, and then come back to a turned bed after dinner. They first took the animal towels, and now they are taking away the turndown service. Really disappointing. 

[Toofarfromthesea]

3 hours ago, gardenbug22 said:

 I was excited to finally be back on a ship after covid calmed down. It was my 10th cruise. 

 

Things I notced and missed on the ship where the lack of varied activities.  However they sure didn't lack in trivial games and what I call spa pushes!  The Theater was under untilized. We never had the shows put on by the entertainment dancers and band .. which were always something to look forward to. Our ship had a comedian who was  crude do 3 shows and there was a woman who's claim to fame seemed to be kicking up her right leg after every song she sang or story she told. .  The choices, as well as the quality in the food offered in the MDR were greatly reduced. Staff was very stressed out and it showed in the dining room.   The music around the ship is normally top of the line ... this time not so much... Anyone have any thoughts ?  

 

I think it is an unpleasant, albeit necessary evil.  A company cannot assume massive debt and not have it result in increased prices and cost cutting.  Plus the recent years' inflation has increased costs and that has to be factored in.  

[njhorseman]

49 minutes ago, navybankerteacher said:

Have they REALLY raised fares all that much?  It sure does not look like it in promotional ads.

 

But there is NO DOUBT about their cutting services — which was ordained a few years before Covid hit when they ordered their new classes of mega-ships.  Are you aware of how long it takes to start filling cabins after a line decides to order a ship?

You're relying on promotional ads as a source of facts? Good luck with that.

 

It's a two-pronged attack to raise profitability...increase revenue and decrease expenses.

 

I've see discussions in quarterly earnings calls of raising per diem passenger revenue, so I know raising prices is a key component of the cruise lines' post-COVID financial recovery. 

 

I'm not just talking about base fares here...there are other things that will generate more revenue. Higher specialty restaurant charges, higher shore excursion prices, more/higher "nickel and dime" items like room service charges. I read that Celebrity tried to do something like impose a $2 charge for a chocolate chip cookie (I may have the details wrong), which they eventually reversed course on because of the negative reaction.

 

The other side of the coin is the post-COVID service cuts such as the reduction in cabin service from twice daily to once daily.

 

 

[Markanddonna]

We won't ever know the break even point. Instead, we will just be used to less service and lower quality food and details.

[9tee2Sea]

so far, cutting back of things has not diminished my enthusiasm for cruising.  It used to be the cabin stewards would make up the cabin while we were out for breakfast.  Now ( due to the cutbacks) they seem to have them made up by noon.  I ALWAYS go back to my cabin after breakfast ( restroom, brush teeth, change clothes, etc).  If the steward is making up the room, I( have no problem telling to come back after Im finished doing my business). The cabin stewards don't want you to be in their way, just like you don't want them to be in your way.  Once they know my routine, they may get back to me as the last cabin on the route, but I don't care.  If the cutbacks ever become an issue, I will then look for other cruise lines that will satisfy me.  The service rendered is not the the reason I cruise, Its the experience of going to far away places and not going by airplane.

[Joebucks]

2 hours ago, mom says said:

My thoughts include, but aren't limited to feeling more confident in our decision to prioritize  land travel and resort stays over cruising.  And that in future our cruises will be on out of the ordinary itineraries and premium or luxury lines. I think we're  done with the mass market lines, including Princess and Celebrity.

 

I continue to do both cruises and land vacations. Let me tell you that the grass isn't greener on the other side. Many hotels/resorts have reduced housekeeping (let alone expecting it twice a day), raised costs, closed their executive lounges, and their food is all over the place in price, quality, selection, etc. 

 

Honestly, cruising is still a great value. If you want to find things that were different than they were before COVID, you'll succeed. You can do the same for a lot of enjoyable experiences. It's not the best way to go through life.

[sanger727]

I haven’t booked a mainstream cruise since covid. I did do two small ships that should have been ‘luxury’ and def ran into some issues. I think I would do a cruise if it was cheap enough; but given the cutbacks I won’t pay a premium price for a cruise.

 

I understand the situation they find themselves in. But it’s not my responsibility to pay for it.

Edited August 29, 2023 by sanger727

[navybankerteacher]

2 hours ago, njhorseman said:

You're relying on promotional ads as a source of facts? Good luck with that.

 

It's a two-pronged attack to raise profitability...increase revenue and decrease expenses.

 

I've see discussions in quarterly earnings calls of raising per diem passenger revenue, so I know raising prices is a key component of the cruise lines' post-COVID financial recovery. 

 

I'm not just talking about base fares here...there are other things that will generate more revenue. Higher specialty restaurant charges, higher shore excursion prices, more/higher "nickel and dime" items like room service charges. I read that Celebrity tried to do something like impose a $2 charge for a chocolate chip cookie (I may have the details wrong), which they eventually reversed course on because of the negative reaction.

 

The other side of the coin is the post-COVID service cuts such as the reduction in cabin service from twice daily to once daily.

 

 

All this is really much more cost cutting, rather than fare increasing. The fares are not going up at anywhere near the rate shown in virtually all other areas of life: grocery prices, air fares, NYC subway fares, TBTA tolls - you name it. They are simply giving less and less for what used to be included in the basic fare.

 

I will not be surprised to hear that “free meals” will become a thing of the past.   Well served, well prepared meals, utilizing quality food have certainly gone by the wayside.

 

The basic “fares” are very close to what they were twenty to thirty years ago (when there was no such thing as “specialty restaurants”) — those “fares” just buy a whole lot less. 

The mass market customers have little context - they could not afford to cruise at all a couple of decades ago - now they can —- but what the mass market is getting today is simply not what cruising was those decades ago.

Edited August 29, 2023 by navybankerteacher

[njhorseman]

12 minutes ago, navybankerteacher said:

All this is really much more cost cutting, rather than fare increasing. The fares are not going up at anywhere near the rate shown in virtually all other areas of life: grocery prices, air fares, NYC subway fares, TBTA tolls - you name it. They are simply giving less and less for what used to be included in the basic fare.

 

I will not be surprised to hear that “free meals” will become a thing of the past.   Well served, well prepared meals, utilizing quality food have certainly gone by the wayside.

 

The basic “fares” are very close to what they were twenty to thirty years ago (when there was no such thing as “specialty restaurants”) — those “fares” just buy a whole lot less. 

The mass market customers have little context - they could not afford to cruise at all a couple of decades ago - now they can —- but what the mass market is getting today is simply not what cruising was those decades ago.

Here's an example of complaints about how much Celebrity has raised its prices.. I am certain they are not the only cruise line that has raised fares substantially.

It has quotes such as:

Next summer, however, everything is at least $1,200 per day, and that's for the "lower class" suites that don't get full retreat perks.

 

I mean seriously, this has become absolutely ridiculous.

 

And:

 

I did a sky suite on beyond last November on beyond about 3k with lots of OBC , this November it was more than 1k more

 

Plus:

 

We priced up a Sky suite on Beyond f

or the Caribbean 2024/25 and it was the same price as Silversea.  

 

 Not to mention:

 

We agree that the pricing is out of control.  Same with sister Royal.

 

 You're also ignoring the statements made by some cruise lines about the need to increase per diem passenger revenue. That can't be done by cutting service. It can only be done by raising fares and the price of extras.

[crystalspin]

9 hours ago, gardenbug22 said:

I was excited to finally be back on a ship after covid calmed down. It was my 10th cruise. 

Things I notced and missed on the ship where the lack of varied activities.  

You didn't provide your cruiseline. Probably you should have and the topic been moved to that board.

 

We did a 16-day back-to-back on Holland America last New Years Eve and January. Honestly did not notice anything that could be put down to cuts. Yes, we were asked would we like the single make-up of the cabin to be morning or night. Realistically, I only make my own bed once a day at home!

 

We were so happy with the comfortable venues all around the ship. As far as the music -- we enjoy classical and understand that genre has been halted for now -- less a matter of cuts for COVID and more for the exorbitant fees of Lincoln Center.

 

We can't wait for our next 35-day cruise on the same ship!

[BruceMuzz]

I would never sail on a mass market ship. 

The Premium and Luxury Lines are not cutting back like the Mass Market Lines are, making the smaller, more luxurious ships an even better deal.

[Honolulu Blue]

15 hours ago, gardenbug22 said:

 I was excited to finally be back on a ship after covid calmed down. It was my 10th cruise. 

 

Things I notced and missed on the ship where the lack of varied activities.  However they sure didn't lack in trivial games and what I call spa pushes!  The Theater was under untilized. We never had the shows put on by the entertainment dancers and band .. which were always something to look forward to. Our ship had a comedian who was  crude do 3 shows and there was a woman who's claim to fame seemed to be kicking up her right leg after every song she sang or story she told. .  The choices, as well as the quality in the food offered in the MDR were greatly reduced. Staff was very stressed out and it showed in the dining room.   The music around the ship is normally top of the line ... this time not so much... Anyone have any thoughts ?  

My somewhat random thoughts:

• I'm not so sure that our favorite cruise lines wouldn't be up to the same old tricks if the pandemic hadn't happened.  Yes, there were supply and labor shortages, and a related spike in inflation, but those seems to be broadly working themselves out.
• @gardenbug22 never did tell us what cruise line or ship they sailed on.  I suppose it's irrelevant.  I actively monitor three cruise line boards on here and they're all complaining about the same things with different details.
• As the prices I've seen on cruises that interest me have risen, I become happier with my decision to pivot away from them and toward music charters.  Yes, they're quite a bit more expensive than ordinary cruises, but they provide a lot of value (to me) and I have found that their cabin prices haven't risen as much as more ordinary cruises.  They'll probably go up more strongly in 2025, so we'll see what happens next year.
• I'll leave you all with a quote from one of my favorite philosophers, "Things are tough all over":

[navybankerteacher]

3 hours ago, FiremedicMike151 said:

I was the one he quoted at 1200 pp/pd, I’ve spent the last 2-3 weeks doing mock bookings trying to find next years vacation.  I didn’t book any ships going north, only ships headed to warm places, and was comparing apples to apples by booking similar itineraries on other lines.

 

I could not find a single celebrity suite class headed somewhere warm for less than 1200..  

Celebrity Beyond - 8 days to ABC’s from Fort Lauderdale  - suite for $5,200 - or less than $700 per day.  I am curious - what itineraries came to more than $1,200?

 

Of course, the plushest suite accommodations are costly - but balconies, ocean views, and (gasp!) insides are way less. 

Edited August 29, 2023 by navybankerteacher

[FiremedicMike151]

22 minutes ago, navybankerteacher said:

Celebrity Beyond - 8 days to ABC’s from Fort Lauderdale  - suite for $5,200 - or less than $700 per day.  I am curious - what itineraries came to more than $1,200?

 

Of course, the plushest suite accommodations are costly - but balconies, ocean views, and (gasp!) insides are way less. 

I searched every cruise from July-November, organized price low to high, cheapest I found to somewhere warm was 1200.  What’s the date on your cruise?

[navybankerteacher]

48 minutes ago, FiremedicMike151 said:

I searched every cruise from July-November, organized price low to high, cheapest I found to somewhere warm was 1200.  What’s the date on your cruise?

Celebrity Beyond, 8 days from Fort Lauderdale , 8/10/24 : pp fares- Inside $1,018, Ocean View $1,028, Balcony $1,435, Suite $5,180 - ranges from $125 to $648 per person per day - nowhere near $1,200.

[Hlitner]

Post Covid, we have (so far) only cruised on 4 lines: Seabourn, MSC (Yacht Club), Princess and HAL.  On Seabourn we have not noticed cut-backs and, in fact, some of the dining menus have improved.  They do have some hiccups due to hiring many new crew, but those issues seem to be improving as the new crew members gain experience.  On Princess, we did notice some cut-backs in the MDRs (both quality and quantity) and there is a new "package structure" which is certainly designed to increase revenues.  MSC's Yacht Club was as good (perhaps better) then pre-COVID and we think it is still one of the best values in the cruise industry.  

 

Last, and least, is HAL where our recent 6 week cruise had all kinds of issues regarding both cut-backs and crew incompetency.  Upon our return (in May), DW said to me "no more HAL."  Keep in mind that we have over 500 days on that line and it takes a lot to upset DW.  In fact, having cruised on 16 lines (over many decades) it is the first time she told me to eliminate a cruise line from our future plans.  

 

Hank

[Waltershipman]

17 minutes ago, Hlitner said:

Post Covid, we have (so far) only cruised on 4 lines: Seabourn, MSC (Yacht Club), Princess and HAL.  On Seabourn we have not noticed cut-backs and, in fact, some of the dining menus have improved.  They do have some hiccups due to hiring many new crew, but those issues seem to be improving as the new crew members gain experience.  On Princess, we did notice some cut-backs in the MDRs (both quality and quantity) and there is a new "package structure" which is certainly designed to increase revenues.  MSC's Yacht Club was as good (perhaps better) then pre-COVID and we think it is still one of the best values in the cruise industry.  

 

Last, and least, is HAL where our recent 6 week cruise had all kinds of issues regarding both cut-backs and crew incompetency.  Upon our return (in May), DW said to me "no more HAL."  Keep in mind that we have over 500 days on that line and it takes a lot to upset DW.  In fact, having cruised on 16 lines (over many decades) it is the first time she told me to eliminate a cruise line from our future plans.  

 

Hank

Emma Bengtsson is a Swedish chef who holds two Michelin stars at the New York City based restaurant Aquavit. She is the first female Swedish chef to win two stars, and only the second female chef based in the United States to do so.

 

I board oct 3 i think she may be the new guest chef

[FiremedicMike151]

37 minutes ago, navybankerteacher said:

Celebrity Beyond, 8 days from Fort Lauderdale , 8/10/24 : pp fares- Inside $1,018, Ocean View $1,028, Balcony $1,435, Suite $5,180 - ranges from $125 to $648 per person per day - nowhere near $1,200.

I apologize, I misused per person per day, it is per day pricing.  $10,600 for a cruise for my wife and I, which is $1200 per day, which is astronomical, especially compared to last years prices and comparing to current land based all-inclusive prices.

 

 

[Aquahound]

Post COVID, I have only sailed RCI......not because I prefer them so much over others, but because I tried a Quantum Class ship for the first time and loved it so much that I returned 3 more times.  My experience regarding entertainment was not what the op experienced on whatever line they sailed.  The entertainment was phenomenal, and I saw no cutbacks in that department whatsoever.  

 

And yes, prices are up but considering cruise prices haven't changed in 30 years, I don't find it to be that big of an issue.