Current load factors

[Old Sea Dog]

As the present passenger numbers are low has anyone experienced a complement upgrade.

Just curious 

[Texas Tillie]

My thought, just mine, is this is information best kept close to the vest and not announced on the World Wide Web. All you can do is anger someone who doesn't get the same treatment. This opens a can of worms for everyone and makes your chances to get one the next time diminished. Also with occupancy fluctuating the crew load doesn't change when they know 2 cruises away is full occupancy., so it makes sense for all the crew to have a lighter work load. Can you just see all the butlers and stewardesses working on 10 and 11 and the other decks empty?

 

Patty

 

[KenzSailing]

I didn't know Crystal did truly complementary upgrades, ever.  Interesting. 

[May B]

4 hours ago, KenzSailing said:

I didn't know Crystal did truly complementary upgrades, ever.  Interesting. 

Never say never.

 

Otoh, I’m guessing it isn’t often. But what do I know? Diddly squat, actually.

Edited September 10, 2023 by May B

[Roland4]

4 hours ago, KenzSailing said:

I didn't know Crystal did truly complementary upgrades, ever.  Interesting. 

It has never happened to us in 23 years with Crystal, and I have never heard of it happening to anyone else. Which does, of course, not mean it has not happened, but given that they still require payment of the full fare differential to upgrade onboard, even when the ship is half empty, I think it is safe to say they do not do complementary upgrades.

[BWIVince]

I’ll toss in that the only upgrades I’ve ever heard of or received on Crystal were operational upgrades, where Crystal assigned an upgrade because they needed a specific cabin for some reason, an assigned cabin went out of service, or they were assigning guarantees that were accepted in consideration of which inventory was available higher in the categories.  
 

Crystal’s dedication to pricing integrity and not just passing out willy nilly comp upgrades is my favorite practices of old Crystal.  I hope that continues.

 

Vince

[ryndam]

We’ve had a rare upgrade from a guaranteed, minimum rate non-balcony room to a balcony room. But never when we actually had an assigned room number when booking. And never a complimentary upgrade from a balcony category to a PH category.

 

Rob

[KenzSailing]

2 hours ago, BWIVince said:

I’ll toss in that the only upgrades I’ve ever heard of or received on Crystal were operational upgrades, where Crystal assigned an upgrade because they needed a specific cabin for some reason, an assigned cabin went out of service, or they were assigning guarantees that were accepted in consideration of which inventory was available higher in the categories.  
 

Crystal’s dedication to pricing integrity and not just passing out willy nilly comp upgrades is my favorite practices of old Crystal.  I hope that continues.

 

Vince

 

OK, I think that bolded part fits our experience.  We once got a discounted offer to upgrade from verandah cabin to PH.  I figured Crystal was trying to free up some verandah inventory they could sell, while still making a few more bucks on a PH.  A deal but definitely not "complementary."

[BWIVince]

2 hours ago, KenzSailing said:

 

OK, I think that bolded part fits our experience.  We once got a discounted offer to upgrade from verandah cabin to PH.  I figured Crystal was trying to free up some verandah inventory they could sell, while still making a few more bucks on a PH.  A deal but definitely not "complementary."

Yeah, that’s a definite scenario too, but IME that’s been more rare than the guarantee assignments clearing in a higher category.  IME, until the unique situation during the Covid restart, they usually had a specific reason to offer paid upgrades, and it wasn’t just a routine program.  The upgrades they were selling in 2021 were really the first broad scale paid upgrades, but we all remember the inventory situation that made those unique.

 

Vince

[FlyerTalker]

5 hours ago, BWIVince said:

Crystal’s dedication to pricing integrity and not just passing out willy nilly comp upgrades is my favorite practices of old Crystal.  I hope that continues.

 

It's called pricing integrity for a reason.  It's why airlines will go out with empty seats in international first.  Or in business.  Because to give away the product destroys perceived value.

 

I completely concur with Vince.

 

 

[Texas Tillie]

6 hours ago, FlyerTalker said:

 

It's called pricing integrity for a reason.  It's why airlines will go out with empty seats in international first.  Or in business.  Because to give away the product destroys perceived value.

 

I completely concur with Vince.

 

 

 

I haven't been on an international flight in business class in years that wasn't 100% full. Passengers with status in the airline's frequent flyer plan are always upgraded to fill any vacant seats. In that case, I suppose the status has perceived value.

[Stickman1990]

10 minutes ago, Texas Tillie said:

Passengers with status in the airline's frequent flyer plan are always upgraded to fill any vacant seats. In that case, I suppose the status has perceived value.

I’m a big fan of airline status as getting priority service when dealing with airlines can mean the difference of being in the phone for minutes versus hours

 

One point to note is that those upgrades are now generally “paid” for by using air miles or points - the days of the complimentary upgrade are long gone 

[Texas Tillie]

2 hours ago, Stickman1990 said:

I’m a big fan of airline status as getting priority service when dealing with airlines can mean the difference of being in the phone for minutes versus hours

 

One point to note is that those upgrades are now generally “paid” for by using air miles or points - the days of the complimentary upgrade are long gone 

 

I fly United and other Star Alliance since that's the vast majority of flights out of my home airport. On the United website you can see the number of upgrades made for each flight and on those I've checked recently all seats in business are filled with upgrades at the gate based on those in economy with the highest status. Granted there's no guarantee, but it does happen on almost all flights, just as some who paid for regular economy are upgraded to premium economy.

 

Patty 

.

 

[FlyerTalker]

Those complimentary upgrades are for domestic flights.  International upgrades are on the basis of award redemptions or certificates, not blanket complimentary.  And the reason you see them going out full is that airlines are having a bumper crop of folks buying premium cabin seats.  Of course, there is the occasional operational upgrade, but that's about as rare as getting an upgrade by telling the gate agent it's your anniversary.

 

 

[Cancun01]

We book the staterooms in the location and at a price point we want and never give a second thought about “upgrades”.

 

 I only know of one true complimentary upgrade on OC.  An adult child traveling with us ( solo fare) in an assigned non-balcony stateroom was upgraded to a balcony stateroom in 2015.   Surely there must have been others however people are generally discrete about such matters.   I have never mentioned it until now nor have I ever heard anyone on OC openly discuss “upgrades” for obvious reasons as mentioned in post #2.  
 

Anyway that was OC….after the events of the past couple of years IMO  it would very poor business practice of NC to offer anyone a complimentary upgrade.   NC needs to build goodwill with many people, not anger them further. 
 

[May B]

On 9/10/2023 at 4:15 PM, ryndam said:

We’ve had a rare upgrade from a guaranteed, minimum rate non-balcony room to a balcony room. But never when we actually had an assigned room number when booking. And never a complimentary upgrade from a balcony category to a PH category.

 

Rob

I had forgotten about that! Indeed, it was our second Crystal cruise, it was a six-night, and our first cruise on Serenity.

[travelberlin]

21 hours ago, FlyerTalker said:

 

It's called pricing integrity for a reason.  It's why airlines will go out with empty seats in international first.  Or in business.  Because to give away the product destroys perceived value.

 

I completely concur with Vince.

 

 

Airlines offer upgrades against payment nowadays on international flights. This happens quite offen at the check in process. Business class is always full.

[Texas Tillie]

4 hours ago, travelberlin said:

Airlines offer upgrades against payment nowadays on international flights. This happens quite offen at the check in process. Business class is always full.

 

I know I've observed that, but it's hard to dispute FlyerTalker in matter aviation, so I just let his comment stand.

 

Patty

[BWIVince]

4 hours ago, Texas Tillie said:

 

I know I've observed that, but it's hard to dispute FlyerTalker in matter aviation, so I just let his comment stand.

 

Patty

I know it sounds like your and FT’s comments are at odds, but I think you both are speaking to the entire pricing integrity disaster that the airlines created a few decades ago, and have been working hard to untangle for years.  You’re both correct in your perspectives, it’s just more complicated than that. I have an analysis of what makes the airlines the cautionary tale that lines like Crystal are trying to avoid, that I’ll post as soon as I get some time.  It’s actually quite relevant to Crystal’s strategy moving forward.

 

Vince

[Keith1010]

There is something I am not following.

 

My experience on international flights is Business Class is not always full and that was the case on our most recent flights between the USA and LHR on outbound and inbound flights.

 

This is a bit out of my league as I am not as knowledgable on airlines as cruising but while airlines might not give it away they certainly make use of dynamic pricing which can allow them to fill up business or first or certainly drive more occupancy.  Their pricing can be extreme. I was looking at a flight we are on (domestic R/T first class) and one day the price is something like 40% more than we paid, next day the same, next day about 25% more and next day same price.  Now I realize that this is one where the pricing was higher but we all have seen it in reverse and if you bought it on the day it was 40% higher and looked a few days later you would see it 40% lower.  As a rule I do not check pricing after I purchased the tickets but only did because I was making a change (outbound and the price was the same) but noticed that inbound was much higher and would have resulted in a much higher fare if I changed that one so was curious over a few days.

 

Question for the experts. Likewise, do they change the amount of award miles needed for the same flight. I remember in the old days I knew what the miles would be based on upgrade or using all miles but these days I am not sure if that is set in stone or not.  But I am sure some of you do so was curious.

 

As to Crystal (both old and new) there certainly have been circumstances where someone is upgraded and often it is operational but it's not one that people often talk about or post about.  Likewise, I remember at least for Old Crystal that when the ship(s) were in Europe if there was a lot of room they would offer some attractive last minute deals to those in Europe as friends told us that. And on our first Crystal Cruise on the Harmony I remember the person next to our room told me that he lived in California (this was the R/T San Francisco cruises of Alaska) and he got an attractive last minute deal. He told me the price. I didn't ask. I wish he didn't.  Sometimes things like that are better left under the cone of silence.  

 

Keith 

[crickette]

And sometimes the "upgrade for operational reasons" is a downgrade.  We were moved from a mid-ship B to a (very) forward A1 which Crystal considered an upgrade because it was a deck higher.  

[travelberlin]

I have been offered upgrades gegen payment at the moment of check in. Fluggesellschaften Lufthansa and  Copa Airlines. I have received the upgrade, even tough my bid was considered low. This was in 2022. KLM has also offered me the possibility of an upgrade in 2023, but my flight was short and I was not interested.

 

Many years ago I have received upgrades at the moment of boarding as frequent traveler from Lufthansa and British Airways without requesting. Those times seem to be gone now.

 

Ivi

 

 

[PaulMCO]

@Keith1010  It depends on the airline.  United pretty much offers most flights to FF points for a flight purchase. United can swing as much to a ridiculous 255K pp one way to Tokyo to as low as 90K.  We just recently paid 100K.   Europe so far to Amsterdam it has been a 255K to 132K swing.  We ended booking on Virgin for 65K.

 

Virgin to the UK typically runs a constant mileage plus a hefty airline surcharge fee.  When awards are non available -- nothing.

 

As for upgrades the rules can be totally confusing.  The are miles and money (amount would vary based on your fare), status plus points/rewards, buy ups at the last minute when you check in and a rare operational upgrade.  The priority can be so convoluted you need to be a lawyer to figure it out, Status in the program, what class you are booked in (economy versus premium economy), fare basis,  corporate preferred members, credit card loyalty, and when you made the request.  Been flying United for 40 years, the last international operational upgrade (without miles or certificates) was in 1999.  Then of course if you are a pilot because of their union contract -- you bump ahead.

 

@travelberlin as Ivi stated LH (and LX) used to operational upgrade people and fill the remaining seats.  No longer happens.

 

And of course Pan Am used to do that too -- but they went bankrupt 🙂

[FlyerTalker]

18 hours ago, travelberlin said:

Airlines offer upgrades against payment nowadays on international flights. This happens quite offen at the check in process. Business class is always full.

 

That is much the case with European carriers, who would rather seek incremental revenue with upgrade auctions.  USA carriers tend to work for price integrity and do not offer those kind of auctions or gate upgrades.

 

 

[FlyerTalker]

2 hours ago, travelberlin said:

I have been offered upgrades gegen payment at the moment of check in. Fluggesellschaften Lufthansa and  Copa Airlines. I have received the upgrade, even tough my bid was considered low. This was in 2022. KLM has also offered me the possibility of an upgrade in 2023, but my flight was short and I was not interested.

 

Note....all of those are non-USA carriers.  And all choose to use an upgrade auction partner to manage their upgrading.  They are wanting to extract extra revenue, even at the cost of driving premium cabin sales into the auction market.