Question about gratuities...

[SargassoPirate]

10 minutes ago, dog said:

Do you have proof of this? If so, please direct us to it.

 

I have personally been told by 3 crew now that HaveDog is correct.

CA does go to crew as part of their salary. Not extra as tips or gratuity.

 

And after much thought, I'm leaning toward removing the so-called CREW appreciation, since it appears to be a euphemism for Princess Employee Salary Subsidy (PESS), and tipping the CREW who actually provide me with personal service.

 

Somewhere in the past I recall a chart, and I'm not sure for which line, that showed what percentages of the daily tip went to which on board CREW.  Stuart, the wait staff, bartenders, etc.

 

Since apparently removing the PESS won't directly affect the CREW, they would greatly benefit from cash tips.

 

And no, removing the PESS is not an attempt to avoid tipping.  Just tipping those who deserve it.

[ldubs]

13 minutes ago, dog said:

Do you have proof of this? If so, please direct us to it.

 

I have personally been told by 3 crew now that HaveDog is correct.

CA does go to crew as part of their salary. Not extra as tips or gratuity.

 

 

 

OK, don't call them tips but they still go towards crew reimbursement, correct?   I don't think you are saying if we all pulled the grats the crew would be paid the same - or are you?   BTW, if you ask the crew which they prefer I'm sure most of the time it would be cash.   

[memoak]

21 minutes ago, SargassoPirate said:

And after much thought, I'm leaning toward removing the so-called CREW appreciation, since it appears to be a euphemism for Princess Employee Salary Subsidy (PESS), and tipping the CREW who actually provide me with personal service.

 

Somewhere in the past I recall a chart, and I'm not sure for which line, that showed what percentages of the daily tip went to which on board CREW.  Stuart, the wait staff, bartenders, etc.

 

Since apparently removing the PESS won't directly affect the CREW, they would greatly benefit from cash tips.

 

And no, removing the PESS is not an attempt to avoid tipping.  Just tipping those who deserve it.

Again all those who might bring you a blanket at MUTS or an extra towel at the pool are giving you service as well as many that you never see. Again just my opinion    Basically how do you determine which of the crew”deserve” it

Edited November 7, 2023 by memoak

[startedwithamouse]

58 minutes ago, memoak said:

I think the concept that CA does not go to crew is a misconception pushed by people who don’t want to pay tips since so many say they will tip who they want but not as much as the CA is

Nope.

 

We took more than the CA amount, and gave it to crew on our voyage. 

 

We rounded up to $1k.

 

We've NEVER taken CA off before, we usually sail with Plus. This fleet wide bonuses for entertainment really rubbed us the wrong way. Our money, our choice to appreciate the crew we choose to.  

[nerudapoem]

At one time I thought I heard if you tip a crew member in cash at the end of the cruise, the tip is turned in to be included in the tip pool.  If the passenger who gave them the tip paid the CA, the crew then gets the extra tip returned to them on their paycheck. If CA was removed by the person who tipped, the money goes into the tip pool and they lose it.  Am I imagining this?  Or does anyone have any experience with this?  

[PrincessLuver]

 

Tipflation and guilt tipping has reached epidemic levels in the US with the mass adoption of tablets at point-of-purchase.  You go to a Starbucks and just for handing you a coffee the barista expects a tip and you have to decide in front of them on the point of purchase tablet what you are going to do.

 

Recently we were at a restaurant and the menu indicated there would be a 20% service fee applied to the dinner tab.  When it came time to pay the bill he waiter handed us the bill which had a place for tipping.  We asked what was the service fee for and he indicated it was for all the staff but the tip would go to him individually.  35% for fee and tip on top of dinner?  Ridiculous.

 

Auto-tipping is just a rip off now and has nothing to do with being rewarded for service above and beyond which use to be the norm for many in regards to tipping in the US.

Edited November 7, 2023 by PrincessLuver

[SargassoPirate]

39 minutes ago, memoak said:

Again all those who might bring you a blanket at MUTS or an extra towel at the pool are giving you service as well as many that you never see. Again just my opinion    Basically how do you determine which of the crew”deserve” it

What percentage of my daily PESS goes to the person who may bring me a MUTS blanket?  If I remove the PESS from my account and instead tip the people who actually provide me a direct service - such as a bartender - wouldn't they end up better compensated than the amount shared fleet wide?

 

BTW, knowing that the PESS is distributed to the entertainment staff incentivises me even more to remove it since most of the activities with the entertainment are over-amplified and annoying.  In fact, the entertainment staff should be compensating me for annoyance and potential hearing damage.

 

 

[memoak]

2 minutes ago, SargassoPirate said:

What percentage of my daily PESS goes to the person who may bring me a MUTS blanket?  If I remove the PESS from my account and instead tip the people who actually provide me a direct service - such as a bartender - wouldn't they end up better compensated than the amount shared fleet wide?

 

BTW, knowing that the PESS is distributed to the entertainment staff incentivises me even more to remove it since most of the activities with the entertainment are over-amplified and annoying.  In fact, the entertainment staff should be compensating me for annoyance and potential hearing damage.

 

 

Entertainment is a very broad category which also includes casino workers not just singers and dancers. How do I know that ?  Because I was gifted a specialty dinner on my last cruise and per dine line it was from the entertainment department and yes I am a casino player

[Tedferg]

1 hour ago, memoak said:

If the CA goes to the crew and you remove CA then you are taking money from crew it doesn’t matter if you call it salary or tips. That is all semantics   And yes I have many friends who work on ships who have told me that if enough people remove CA then it affects there total compensation 

I made my comment based on HaveDog's and other's comment that crew stated that CA is factored into fixed salaries and not distributed as a bonus. I support CA for the general crew population. 

[PescadoAmarillo]

7 hours ago, memoak said:

And yes I have many friends who work on ships who have told me that if enough people remove CA then it affects there total compensation 

I am gobsmacked by the number of us who have “many friends who work on ships”. I am also surprised that so many of us apparently feel totally comfortable asking our friends how much and how they get paid. 

[memoak]

3 minutes ago, PescadoAmarillo said:

I am gobsmacked by the number of us who have “many friends who work on ships”. I am also surprised that so many of us apparently feel totally comfortable asking our friends how much and how they get paid. 

When you have cruised over 50 times and spend a lot of time in restaurants and bars you get to know quite a few people. On our last cruise we bumped into a bar manager and 3 bartenders we had sailed with before

[dog]

10 hours ago, PescadoAmarillo said:

I am gobsmacked by the number of us who have “many friends who work on ships”. I am also surprised that so many of us apparently feel totally comfortable asking our friends how much and how they get paid. 

Actually, I think some Crew have freely shared this information with family, close friends, mostly after their work term has been completed. That is the case of my 3 crew contacts.

I can see it being reasonably discussed on social media since there have been changes to the name-CA, tips, gratuities, and how it was and now is distributed.

I prefer to know who I am giving money to, as it remains a choice for us to pay it or not. 

[SargassoPirate]

2 hours ago, dog said:

 

I can see it being reasonably discussed on social media since there have been changes to the name-CA, tips, gratuities,

Just because the cat has kittens in the oven don't make 'em biscuits.

 

I am always watching for name changes as a way to make something more palatable.  In our town a crime ridden neighborhood was constantly in the newspapers.  Because of the stigma of living in that area,  the city leaders changed the name of the development.  Same neighborhood, same crime rate, new name. 

 

Don't fix the problem. Just give it a new name.

Edited November 8, 2023 by SargassoPirate

[Cruise Raider]

12 hours ago, memoak said:

When you have cruised over 50 times and spend a lot of time in restaurants and bars you get to know quite a few people. On our last cruise we bumped into a bar manager and 3 bartenders we had sailed with before

We actually go on cruises because of many crew members, that we regularly keep in touch even now, years after meeting them.  We find out where they will be working and if feasible, we book on that ship.  
Many know they are welcome at our home. 
 

Regardless, we would never ask them how much money they make.  Several had told us that they make a salary and if we give them a gratuity, they can keep it.  
I know this change happened on the return to service, post CoVid.  The crew appreciation helps to cover the entire fleet, not just the ship you are on at the current time.  This covered the staff and crew when one ship had a low capacity while other ships may have had a higher capacity at the time.  They felt it was fair, at least the ones that told us.  
If enough people removed the CA, they will be raised for others to subsidize those removals.  

Just of note, we’d never even think of removing our CA.  It’s part of our culture in the US.  We just factor it into the price of the cruise from the get go!  

 

 

[Lady Arwen]

49 minutes ago, Cruise Raider said:

We actually go on cruises because of many crew members, that we regularly keep in touch even now, years after meeting them.  We find out where they will be working and if feasible, we book on that ship.  
Many know they are welcome at our home. 
 

Regardless, we would never ask them how much money they make.  Several had told us that they make a salary and if we give them a gratuity, they can keep it.  
I know this change happened on the return to service, post CoVid.  The crew appreciation helps to cover the entire fleet, not just the ship you are on at the current time.  This covered the staff and crew when one ship had a low capacity while other ships may have had a higher capacity at the time.  They felt it was fair, at least the ones that told us.  
If enough people removed the CA, they will be raised for others to subsidize those removals.  

Just of note, we’d never even think of removing our CA.  It’s part of our culture in the US.  We just factor it into the price of the cruise from the get go!  

 

 

Exactly.  Thank you.

[SargassoPirate]

On 11/7/2023 at 2:25 PM, Tedferg said:

I made my comment based on HaveDog's and other's comment that crew stated that CA is factored into fixed salaries and not distributed as a bonus. I support CA for the general crew population. 

Do you support CA going to Onboard Revenue Areas?  And what is that exactly?

 

 

"To simplify the tipping process for our guests, a discretionary crew appreciation payment will be automatically added to your shipboard account. Crew appreciation amounts will increase starting with voyages sailing on or after 2/20/23 to USD $18 Suites, $17 Mini-suites, Cabanas and Club Class, $16 for Interior, Oceanview, and Balcony Staterooms per day (including children). This crew appreciation payment will be shared amongst those staff that help provide and support your cruise experience, including those in the Bar, Dining, Entertainment, Housekeeping, Guest Services, Galley and Onboard Revenue areas."

[HaveDogWillTravel]

On 11/7/2023 at 5:12 PM, PescadoAmarillo said:

I am gobsmacked by the number of us who have “many friends who work on ships”. I am also surprised that so many of us apparently feel totally comfortable asking our friends how much and how they get paid. 

Oh goodness gracious no!  I would never, ever ask any crew member that!  However, after 2 years of taking lots and lots of excursions with crew, hosting them in our home port of SF when their ship is in town and then of course the days at sea, they volunteered information about this.  It was just part of conversations that developed over time.  Talking about retirement, talking about plans for the future and so on. I was gobsmacked when I was told and it took me an over year before I even mentioned it to others. 
I think everyone is entitled to form their own reaction to this information or to even just not believe it. There is no right or wrong reaction. 

[sunviking90]

I would never remove crew appreciation as I really don’t  want to go back to the days of having to bring a lot of US cash on vacation with me and then put it in envelopes to distribute at opportune times to the crew. I love having CA automatically charged, and know that the crew are paid a mutually agreed upon contracted salary and not depending on people doing the right thing in compensating them. And I can used OBC for this or prepay at a more favourable exchange rate beforehand. We obviously do bring some US cash on cruises for extra tips if warranted, but I’m glad I don’t have to travel with $1000 cash on me for the basic CA on a longer cruise! Plus as  Canadian it’s always a big “ouch” moment buying the US cash pretrip, lol.

I don’t really care who Princess decides the crew appreciation goes to. It’s not for me patronize a business and then decide to second guess how they pay their employees when mutually agreed upon contracts are in place.

[dog]

5 minutes ago, sunviking90 said:

I would never remove crew appreciation as I really don’t  want to go back to the days of having to bring a lot of US cash on vacation with me and then put it in envelopes to distribute at opportune times to the crew. I love having CA automatically charged, and know that the crew are paid a mutually agreed upon contracted salary and not depending on people doing the right thing in compensating them. And I can used OBC for this or prepay at a more favourable exchange rate beforehand. We obviously do bring some US cash on cruises for extra tips if warranted, but I’m glad I don’t have to travel with $1000 cash on me for the basic CA on a longer cruise! Plus as  Canadian it’s always a big “ouch” moment buying the US cash pretrip, lol.

I don’t really care who Princess decides the crew appreciation goes to. It’s not for me patronize a business and then decide to second guess how they pay their employees when mutually agreed upon contracts are in place.

I completely agree with you!

I appreciate all who have posted confirming how CA is distributed.

[PescadoAmarillo]

1 hour ago, HaveDogWillTravel said:

Oh goodness gracious no!  I would never, ever ask any crew member that!  …
I think everyone is entitled to form their own reaction to this information or to even just not believe it. There is no right or wrong reaction. 

Knowing you, I believe that, and was not referring to you in my post. Just all the others who hopped on board having “so many” friends among the crew and intimate knowledge (including contract review?) of their personal financial situations. It’s really been quite amusing.
 

I’m not sure I could feel totally comfortable removing tips, even if it meant more money for the crew in the long run. I put myself through college on tips and understand their importance to those whose pay is contingent on them. We’ve removed one day of tips on one cruise one time when our cabin was so smoky that our luggage was still sitting the hall and we couldn’t even unpack until the second day of our cruise. (BTW, it finally had the desired effect, and the head of housekeeping was in our cabin within 30 minutes). 

 

Frankly, I’m glad I’m not going to have to worry about what I will do about tips for the foreseeable future. We like the plus package, which removes the question. I guess my issue du jour with Princess is that they have withheld from me the fact that all the time and effort I’ve put into crew mentions on the post-cruise surveys for years hasn’t counted. Thanks Princess…especially since I was using minutes my limited free WiFi and taking vacation time to complete many of them. 

[Tedferg]

4 hours ago, SargassoPirate said:

Do you support CA going to Onboard Revenue Areas?  And what is that exactly?

No, I don't support that. Initially I thought CA was distributed just to the crew on that ship. Made sense that background people got a share. I also thought this 'Tip Pool' would be a bonus on top of their wages. I thought, furthermore, that extra tip was kept by cabin steward, as long as CA was not removed.

I was a little confused when I heard it was Fleet Wide, but OK maybe this makes up for partially loaded ships etc.

 

Finally, as a result of HaveDog's information I am taken aback that it is not a separate pool paid out as a bonus and that salaries are predetermined per contract etc.

 

I do not think this will affect what I do in the future and will leave CA as is, but it does make me think that direct tipping of an equal or greater amount to CA would be a more effective way of rewarding people who I interface with, especially if that does not affect other salaries!

Edited November 10, 2023 by Tedferg

[Tedferg]

2 hours ago, sunviking90 said:

And I can used OBC for this

Agree with your points, just curious, how would you use OBC for this?

[SargassoPirate]

3 hours ago, sunviking90 said:

"I love having CA automatically charged, and know that the crew are paid a mutually agreed upon contracted salary and not depending on people doing the right thing in compensating them."

If they are paid a "mutually agreed upon contracted salary" it sounds as if the so-called Crew Appreciation is actually the Princess Employee Salary Subsidy (PESS) and removing the mandated pre-paid daily fee would not affect their salary since it is a contracted amount.

 

If one removed the daily fee and directly tips those with whom one has interacted and from whom one has received excellent service, those crew are actually reaping the benefit of their exemplary service and still receiving their "mutually agreed upon contracted salary".  

 

 

[Steelers36]

3 hours ago, PescadoAmarillo said:

I guess my issue du jour with Princess is that they have withheld from me the fact that all the time and effort I’ve put into crew mentions on the post-cruise surveys for years hasn’t counted. Thanks Princess…especially since I was using minutes my limited free WiFi and taking vacation time to complete many of them. 

J, I believe the crew mentions were mainly taken into consideration for promotions or possible extra training.  At least that is mostly what I have read.  Also, you must be aware how much crew appreciates getting a good review write-up.  I'd like to think it makes at least a little bit of a difference.

[sunviking90]

1 hour ago, Tedferg said:

Agree with your points, just curious, how would you use OBC for this?

The daily CA is charged to our account and any OBC we have is applied towards the balance.