WJ open past 9pm - Would this be a draw for you?

[navybankerteacher]

8 hours ago, leisuretraveler223 said:

 

"Tone" is a quality of the spoken word. There is no tone to the written word. "Tone" appreciated in the written word is entirely a creation of the reader.  So this begs the question: why do you impart a particular "tone" to the words you read?🤔

 

And I guess I can apologize (?) for my vocabulary.  "Hubris" is a perfectly reasonable way to describe people who are confident that they have just kind of come up with an idea "de novo" that an entire department of professionals dedicated to working on such matters haven't considered.  And I'm sorry if "pure ignorance" offends you, but if you believe that what I said means "no changes ever", then I don't really know how else to describe that thought process.

Sorry - but you are showing hubris (and a hint - a tone if you will - of ignorance).  One widely accepted and applied definition of “tone” is the author’s attitude as expressed in his writing.   

[navybankerteacher]

Back on topic - the “Midnight Buffet” and “Chocolate Extravaganzas” were symptoms of the growing pains of the cruise industry - when the “all you can eat buffet” became a big draw - for the new generation of cruisers - who seemed (and still seem) more interested in bargains than the real new experiences which cruising might have been able to provide them.

[George C]

While I have zero interest in WJ I am surprised to see it closed at 9 , on our cruise last month we had a reservation for habatchi at 9:30

 

[coaster]

Recall the Empress of the Seas Windjammer was open past 9 when she was still around before Covid.

[leisuretraveler223]

The problem with the Windjammer is it is designed and operated as a very high volume food service. Trying to scale it back for late night operations with a smaller crowd is just not what it is designed and budgeted for. I can't imagine a scenario, even with most of it blocked off and limited offerings, where there aren't going to need to be significant number of staff working for what may be little to no diners.  

 

And then there is always the potential of a large crowd when they least expect it.  Sorrento's is built to handle a late night crowd- one line, one counter, it overflows into the lively promenade with plenty of other venues and seating options.  The last thing they need is to operate the Windjammer at 25% open with a skeleton crew and unexpectedly end up with a big drunk crowd there.  

 

Not only is it a logistical nightmare, but there is no way to make money off of it. Unless you're on a Freedom class ship with a nice bar in The Windjammer, there's nothing to buy.  So you're literally taking your crowd away from the revenue generating venues and putting them somewhere that's a money loser.

[cruisegirl1]

Years ago, Windjammer always had some late night snacks.   I stayed up much later then (and ate more)  and often had  an 11pm snack.  Can't recall the options or how late it stayed open. 

 

But - there were no other options around the ship for food.  Basically, just the MDR and Windjammer.      No Promenade Cafe, No Sorento's, no specialty restaurants etc. 

 

Then there was a time that  WJ had afternoon snacks (They sometimes called it Tea   - but it was far from a formal tea) from around 3-5.  It was a good option when returning from port. 

M

Edited January 11 by cruisegirl1

[time4u2go]

1 hour ago, leisuretraveler223 said:

The problem with the Windjammer is it is designed and operated as a very high volume food service. Trying to scale it back for late night operations with a smaller crowd is just not what it is designed and budgeted for. I can't imagine a scenario, even with most of it blocked off and limited offerings, where there aren't going to need to be significant number of staff working for what may be little to no diners.  

Other cruise lines keep their buffets open late with a limited selection in a limited area with far fewer crew than normal meal times. It doesn't seem to be a problem for them.

[Toddcan]

1 hour ago, time4u2go said:

Other cruise lines keep their buffets open late with a limited selection in a limited area with far fewer crew than normal meal times. It doesn't seem to be a problem for them.

 That is (part of) my original intent of this post.  Other lines do it. Why? Is it a draw for their pax?  Are there people who specifically choose, say Princess over Royal (partly) because of their buffet area being open late?  Maybe.  Hence, this post.   

 

Yup - not a direct correlation to profit, but to customer experience.  Just like one of the other posts in this thread - 70's dance party - all goes to customer experience. Options on board are nice, and a later WJ would/could be one of those options.   Me?  I might use it, but typically, I eat early, watch the show, walk the promenade, and head to bed by 9:30-10:00pm most nights. But, in contrast, our kids and grandkids loved to walk around the ship at night, and were disappointed that the WJ was closed at 9pm - sure they went to Sorrentos and got their fix, but they were looking for a quieter area to chill and grab a bite.  They have been on Princess before, and enjoyed the later evening buffet.  Does this mean they will choose Princess over Royal for that reason alone?  -Shrug- 

[lovesthebeach2]

20 minutes ago, Toddcan said:

 That is (part of) my original intent of this post.  Other lines do it. Why? Is it a draw for their pax?  Are there people who specifically choose, say Princess over Royal (partly) because of their buffet area being open late?  Maybe.  Hence, this post.   

 

Yup - not a direct correlation to profit, but to customer experience.  Just like one of the other posts in this thread - 70's dance party - all goes to customer experience. Options on board are nice, and a later WJ would/could be one of those options.   Me?  I might use it, but typically, I eat early, watch the show, walk the promenade, and head to bed by 9:30-10:00pm most nights. But, in contrast, our kids and grandkids loved to walk around the ship at night, and were disappointed that the WJ was closed at 9pm - sure they went to Sorrentos and got their fix, but they were looking for a quieter area to chill and grab a bite.  They have been on Princess before, and enjoyed the later evening buffet.  Does this mean they will choose Princess over Royal for that reason alone?  -Shrug- 

Hard for me to believe people would choose another cruise line specifically because their buffet is open later, but I suppose some may do that,  I don’t plan our cruise vacations based upon the buffet being open after 9. I love the ocean and visiting other countries in a floating hotel. 
Goes to show everyone is different and that’s perfectly fine.

[Ocean Boy]

1 minute ago, lovesthebeach2 said:

Hard for me to believe people would choose another cruise line specifically because their buffet is open later, but I suppose some may do that,  I don’t plan our cruise vacations based upon the buffet being open after 9. I love the ocean and visiting other countries in a floating hotel. 
Goes to show everyone is different and that’s perfectly fine.

Correct, everyone cruises for their own reasons. What is important to one may mean nothing to another. However, since your main concern seems the be "the ocean and visiting other countries on a floating hotel" which you can get from almost any cruise ship, how do you make your distinctions and choices of ship and cruise line?

[TwoMisfits]

1 hour ago, lovesthebeach2 said:

Hard for me to believe people would choose another cruise line specifically because their buffet is open later, but I suppose some may do that,  I don’t plan our cruise vacations based upon the buffet being open after 9. I love the ocean and visiting other countries in a floating hotel. 
Goes to show everyone is different and that’s perfectly fine.

 

I can totally see parents with kids leaving kids program at 10pm and being shocked they can't pick up a treat and drink for their now-starving kid at the buffet.  In fact, I am surprised WJ isn't open til 10:30pm, just for that...I mean, if it's a family line, 5pm kid dinner is pretty early and then they don't serve food in the kids' room, I don't think...

 

I say this as one, who in days past Carnival, Disney and even Royal cruises, may have been the parent sitting at a buffet from 9:30-10:30pm with a kid and a brownie or soft serve ice cream and a glass of water or milk...

[lovesthebeach2]

1 hour ago, Ocean Boy said:

Correct, everyone cruises for their own reasons. What is important to one may mean nothing to another. However, since your main concern seems the be "the ocean and visiting other countries on a floating hotel" which you can get from almost any cruise ship, how do you make your distinctions and choices of ship and cruise line?

Theres so many different reasons (too many to list) for the choices anyone makes for which line and ship….. 

[Ocean Boy]

8 minutes ago, lovesthebeach2 said:

Theres so many different reasons (too many to list) for the choices anyone makes for which line and ship….. 

Remember when RCI first returned to operation after the shutdown they were not opening the WJ for dinner at all. If they had not started opening for dinner before my first cruise came up I would have cancelled.

[Mum2Mercury]

On 1/9/2024 at 6:43 AM, leisuretraveler223 said:

Cruises are nothing but a highly sophisticated calculation of how to extract the most money out of the most people.

Isn't that true of all businesses?  

On 1/9/2024 at 7:20 AM, HBE4 said:

Hubris? More like people just kicking around random suggestions of things they'd like to see.

Personally, I like hypothetical discussions, even if they're not likely to bring about any changes.  

On 1/9/2024 at 8:06 AM, doghog said:

We don't eat after supper. 

A lot of people don't -- which is why the ship ought to offer limited foods but. not full-scale dinner options. 

On 1/10/2024 at 8:27 AM, HBE4 said:

But not every little item is a profit center. How much money is made on a 70's dance party?  Think of the man-hours spent on rehearsing, lighting, sound, costumes, etc, in addition to the actual singing & dancing.  Who is paying to maintain/operate/staff the rock walls & flow riders?  All of us, via higher cruise fares, whether we use them or not.  But, as highlighted above, if it encourages someone to come back, there is a link to profit.

Right.  You can't draw a direct line between every single thing on the ship and a line on the profit spreadsheet ... doesn't mean those things could be done away with.  

On 1/10/2024 at 8:41 AM, leisuretraveler223 said:

"Tone" is a quality of the spoken word. There is no tone to the written word. 

Of course tone exists in writing!  

33 minutes ago, TwoMisfits said:

I can totally see parents with kids leaving kids program at 10pm and being shocked they can't pick up a treat and drink for their now-starving kid at the buffet. 

The kids' club brings the kids to the Windjammer to eat. 

[TwoMisfits]

4 minutes ago, Mum2Mercury said:

Isn't that true of all businesses?  

Personally, I like hypothetical discussions, even if they're not likely to bring about any changes.  

A lot of people don't -- which is why the ship ought to offer limited foods but. not full-scale dinner options. 

Right.  You can't draw a direct line between every single thing on the ship and a line on the profit spreadsheet ... doesn't mean those things could be done away with.  

Of course tone exists in writing!  

The kids' club brings the kids to the Windjammer to eat. 

 

But still at kid dinner time.  They go from 7-10pm with nothing.  3 hours of play and a kid is ravenous after...at least mine always were...like clockwork...

[lovesthebeach2]

43 minutes ago, Ocean Boy said:

Remember when RCI first returned to operation after the shutdown they were not opening the WJ for dinner at all. If they had not started opening for dinner before my first cruise came up I would have cancelled.

Oddly I don’t remember that…..but our first cruise after shutdown was in a GS on Allure, so we ate in CK every meal for that cruise. We used to always eat in the MDR for the out to dinner feeling, but lately we’ve been eating dinner more and more in the WJ. 

[Toddcan]

3 hours ago, lovesthebeach2 said:

Hard for me to believe people would choose another cruise line specifically because their buffet is open later, but I suppose some may do that,  I don’t plan our cruise vacations based upon the buffet being open after 9. I love the ocean and visiting other countries in a floating hotel. 
Goes to show everyone is different and that’s perfectly fine.

 Kinda... but that's not exactly what I meant.  I'm sure we all pick a cruise line, or a cruise ship for a combination of different reasons.  While I don't believe that the buffet open after 9pm is a deal breaker, it might be enough of a factor (in combination with the other reasons you use to pick your cruieline) to be a contributor.  

[doghog]

58 minutes ago, Mum2Mercury said:

A lot of people don't -- which is why the ship ought to offer limited foods but. not full-scale dinner options. 

I know. That's what I said but you cut that off. 🙄 What ever type of food, that's up to who's in charge. 

[The Fun Researcher]

On 1/8/2024 at 8:10 AM, Toddcan said:

One of the things that keeps coming back to me is how some other lines have their buffets open late into the night.  Typically, the WJ closes at 9pm.  I've found a few times (not many, to be honest) where I would have enjoyed heading to the WJ late at night (10-11pm) to enjoy even a limited food selection, or perhaps just some light snacks and a glass of ice water - and sit and relax - it's quite a nice area on most ships, and late at night it would likely be much less crowded.  

 

Would this be a draw for anyone else?  It would be for me. I wonder if ppl have made a choice to sail other lines (Princess?) who have late buffets?

 

Perhaps grab a plate of cookies, and play cards

Perhaps grab a burger and chat with friends around a large table

etc 

etc

 

YES!!!  I'm not a huge eater overall but I "need" a late night snack.

 

I've been harping about this for years about Royal Caribbean.  The late night food offerings are terribly limited.  Pizza and finger sandwiches get old fast.  Thank goodness Playmakers arrived on some ships. I'm willing to pay a little for some good pub fare.

 

The one time we sailed NCL, the biggest positive difference was late night food.  Loved having O'Sheehans open 24 hours.  The fact that it was full service, with a broad menu, and open 24 hours was amazing.

 

Just got off Celebrity a few weeks ago and they have a limited buffet offering open late (cold cuts, breads, cheeses, desserts and a salad bar) .  They also have hand tossed pizza and a pasta bar there.  (although the pizza was scarce and the pasta bar was not well run at all).  It was still a nice improvement over Royal.

[Toddcan]

3 minutes ago, The Fun Researcher said:

 

Just got off Celebrity a few weeks ago and they have a limited buffet offering open late (cold cuts, breads, cheeses, desserts and a salad bar) .  They also have hand tossed pizza and a pasta bar there.  (although the pizza was scarce and the pasta bar was not well run at all).  It was still a nice improvement over Royal.

Curious... do you what time the Celebrity buffet closed?

[The Fun Researcher]

On 1/8/2024 at 9:24 PM, ReneeFLL said:

Two words, dollars and waiting. Guess that’s actually 3 words. 😀
 

Edited - So for a few cookies it’ll cost 8.00. No thanks.

Agree.  ...and to add, I want to be out and about enjoying the ship not cooped up in my room waiting for food to arrive (with no good spot to eat it.)

 

3 hours ago, lovesthebeach2 said:

Hard for me to believe people would choose another cruise line specifically because their buffet is open later, but I suppose some may do that,  I don’t plan our cruise vacations based upon the buffet being open after 9. I love the ocean and visiting other countries in a floating hotel. 
Goes to show everyone is different and that’s perfectly fine.

Yeah, we'll never "have it all"  Each person has their own preferences in a cruise ship and you just have to choose the one that has the best mix for you.

 

I will still complain about Royal in this regard, especially when I've seen it done so much better on other lines.   ...and I just think they make a poor attempt at it

 

20 minutes ago, Toddcan said:

Curious... do you what time the Celebrity buffet closed?

Dinner buffet closed at 9:30pm but Late Night started immediately after until 1am.

[HBE4]

32 minutes ago, Toddcan said:

 Kinda... but that's not exactly what I meant.  I'm sure we all pick a cruise line, or a cruise ship for a combination of different reasons.  While I don't believe that the buffet open after 9pm is a deal breaker, it might be enough of a factor (in combination with the other reasons you use to pick your cruieline) to be a contributor.  

 

Exactly.  Closing time of the buffet might be very low on my priority list of things I look for in a cruise, but all things being equal (price, itinerary, etc), it could tip the balance if I'm having a hard tip deciding between 2 cruises.

 

[lovesthebeach2]

44 minutes ago, Toddcan said:

 Kinda... but that's not exactly what I meant.  I'm sure we all pick a cruise line, or a cruise ship for a combination of different reasons.  While I don't believe that the buffet open after 9pm is a deal breaker, it might be enough of a factor (in combination with the other reasons you use to pick your cruieline) to be a contributor.  

Thats absolutely true. We all have an idea of things we want….and if a couple of ships are close in all the likes, but one ship has that extra thing, like late night snacks, then that will be the one they pick.

[ONECRUISER]

On 1/8/2024 at 6:10 AM, Toddcan said:

One of the things that keeps coming back to me is how some other lines have their buffets open late into the night.  Typically, the WJ closes at 9pm.  I've found a few times (not many, to be honest) where I would have enjoyed heading to the WJ late at night (10-11pm) to enjoy even a limited food selection, or perhaps just some light snacks and a glass of ice water - and sit and relax - it's quite a nice area on most ships, and late at night it would likely be much less crowded.  

 

Would this be a draw for anyone else?  It would be for me. I wonder if ppl have made a choice to sail other lines (Princess?) who have late buffets?

 

Perhaps grab a plate of cookies, and play cards

Perhaps grab a burger and chat with friends around a large table

etc 

etc

Shoot about half my Cruises Wind Jammer now closes at 8:30pm. Years ago walk into WJ after Late Show and get our second Dessert. Then for while could go into Solarium and get some Pizza, a Burger and Fries with these available until 4am. Then of Course the every nite Midnite Buffet. There was tons of wasted Food and Cruises were more expensive 30-35yrs ago, even with recent price increases still cheaper now

Edited January 11 by ONECRUISER

[PhillyFan33579]

My personal observation is over time passengers have become more health conscious. This has resulted in a much smaller demand for food later at night and eliminated cruise staples from years ago like the midnight buffet. At the same time I see way more people in the gym these days. In the past it was the exception when the gym was crowded at any time of day. Now it is the opposite and the gym is usually fairly crowded no matter what time of day you go and regardless of whether it is a sea or port day. I wouldn’t say this is the only reason for changes but I do think it is a big part of it.