Electric tea kettle

[Wehwalt]

2 hours ago, BobbiSox said:

I am amazed at the number of cruisers on this board who are willing to risk the lives of thousands of people so they can have their perfectly brewed cup of tea.

That number is zero. No one has said any such thing. Don't confuse discussing an issue with a willingness to break the rules. I cannot speak for others, but DW and I just got back from 36 days on the GWV and four days on another line, in which part of the morning routine was for me to take our mugs and go get coffee. And during which the kettle I spoke of remained safely in our gadgets cabinet next to the electric corkscrew in our own kitchen, far from any ship.

 

Discussing shipboard policies is within the remit of this board. So is mentioning the policies of other lines, and that they seem to vary based on whether people in the country the ship is sailing out of expect kettles. And if the conversation drifts to travel kettles and their safety shut-off features, that's not nearly as far as I have seen other threads drift.

 

I appreciate your concern, but perhaps your limited experience in CC is leading you to see nuances and connotations that just aren't there. The Inside Cabin, who posted the image of the kettle, is a greatly-honored poster and veteran of many grand voyages, including several GWVs, and whose live threads receive thousands of views. He surely appreciates the need to obey shipboard rules, as do all of us.

 

Thank you for your participation in CC.

[TinaLee]

2 hours ago, BobbiSox said:

I am amazed at the number of cruisers on this board who are willing to risk the lives of thousands of people so they can have their perfectly brewed cup of tea. Some even offer an explanation as to why an electric kettle is perfectly safe, when they have no knowledge  whatsoever about the electrical systems on a ship. Any suggestions offered regarding an alternate way to enjoy a cup of tea is flat out rejected. If there is the slightest chance that something could a fire hazard, why on earth would anyone ignore the warning.?

I don’t think anyone is suggesting that rules be broken and lives be endangered, but your premise fails to take into account that the exact same ships which sail out of the UK in the summer (where kettles are provided by the cruise line in the cabins), when they are repositioned to do the Caribbean in the winter,  the kettles are no longer available and “suddenly” unsafe to use? 

[Kristal Blade]

5 minutes ago, TinaLee said:

I don’t think anyone is suggesting that rules be broken and lives be endangered, but your premise fails to take into account that the exact same ships which sail out of the UK in the summer (where kettles are provided by the cruise line in the cabins), when they are repositioned to do the Caribbean in the winter,  the kettles are no longer available and “suddenly” unsafe to use? 

You and Wehwalt have nailed it, TinaLee,

I have never broken the cruise rules re kettle action and I haven’t suggested that anyone should. Neither have any other participants on this thread.

If a kettle is safe cruising from U.K. then when that same ship sails from USA  it’s still safe, even if it’s not provided!

[TinaLee]

I just think I should interject for the non daily kettle users the following - making hot tea correctly means you take fresh water, place it into your kettle, and boil. Once it reaches boiling level and the kettle turns off, you immediately pour the water over your loose tea or tea bag(s). 
 

No water provided in a buffet or at a coffee station is fresh off the boil, so it is not hot enough. The longer said water sits, the more oxygen it looses, again making the brew less than ideal. I get that a lot of people don’t understand the hubbub, but to people to whom this is a daily part of life it is a big deal, most especially when using said kettle is okay “sometimes” on the exact same ship. 
 

stepping off my box now… 

[Mary229]

2 minutes ago, TinaLee said:

I just think I should interject for the non daily kettle users the following - making hot tea correctly means you take fresh water, place it into your kettle, and boil. Once it reaches boiling level and the kettle turns off, you immediately pour the water over your loose tea or tea bag(s). 
 

No water provided in a buffet or at a coffee station is fresh off the boil, so it is not hot enough. The longer said water sits, the more oxygen it looses, again making the brew less than ideal. I get that a lot of people don’t understand the hubbub, but to people to whom this is a daily part of life it is a big deal, most especially when using said kettle is okay “sometimes” on the exact same ship. 
 

stepping off my box now… 

Coffee drinkers can be just as particular and for other than cruises I have a kettle and drip arrangement to make my favorite brew. Since this thread is currently on the HAL board I have to add that HAL’s coffee is barely fit for human consumption 

[Kristal Blade]

Just a tiny point for clarification…

Boiling water actually decreases its oxygen content. That is why cold water fish get stressed in warmer water, it’s a lack of oxygen.

Sorry to be pedantic, it’s the science teacher in me coming out!

But, yes, you need freshly boiled water for a proper cuppa.

[TinaLee]

21 minutes ago, Mary229 said:

Since this thread is currently on the HAL board I have to add that HAL’s coffee is barely fit for human consumption 

Well that is certainly bad news! 

[TinaLee]

13 minutes ago, Kristal Blade said:

Just a tiny point for clarification…

Boiling water actually decreases its oxygen content. That is why cold water fish get stressed in warmer water, it’s a lack of oxygen.

Sorry to be pedantic, it’s the science teacher in me coming out!

But, yes, you need freshly boiled water for a proper cuppa.

Sorry, I guess the point I was trying to get across was that the more often you boil the water the less oxygen it contains, so having it sit there “warming” just makes it worse, not better. Which is why you never reboil water in the kettle. Thanks for the clarification. 

[BobbiSox]

I am sorry for offending anyone on this board. Perhaps I need to take my medication and put on my glasses. I am not new to this board; I don't post much but I read almost everyday. I'm not new to HAL; I am 5-star. I will only read now and keep my crazy opinions to myself. 😔

[Wehwalt]

5 minutes ago, BobbiSox said:

I am sorry for offending anyone on this board. Perhaps I need to take my medication and put on my glasses. I am not new to this board; I don't post much but I read almost everyday. I'm not new to HAL; I am 5-star. I will only read now and keep my crazy opinions to myself. 😔

No, please contribute your views. We are very grateful for them. I just felt minded to explain your misapprehension, which possibly was our fault.

Edited February 18 by Wehwalt

[Kristal Blade]

27 minutes ago, BobbiSox said:

I am sorry for offending anyone on this board. Perhaps I need to take my medication and put on my glasses. I am not new to this board; I don't post much but I read almost everyday. I'm not new to HAL; I am 5-star. I will only read now and keep my crazy opinions to myself. 😔

Hey Bobbisox, 

I wasn't offended at all. I have been kept amused by how much toing and froing there has been about a simple kettle!

Please keep posting your opinions. It’s the differences between people and new ideas that make life worth living. How bland would life be if we all thought the same way? 
I hate coffee, only drink green tea and know that even if the ship can’t get the water hot enough I’d still rather be cruising than not!

[Haljo1935]

2 hours ago, Mary229 said:

...Since this thread is currently on the HAL board I have to add that HAL’s coffee is barely fit for human consumption 

I completely agree about Lido and MDR coffee, but have enjoyed quite a few cups from Explorations and GDC.

[Haljo1935]

3 minutes ago, Kristal Blade said:

...I have been kept amused by how much toing and froing there has been about a simple kettle!

...know that even if the ship can’t get the water hot enough I’d still rather be cruising than not!

This!

When cruising, life is good even if the tea or coffee is not 😉

Edited February 18 by Haljo1935
Additional comment

[cruisemom42]

2 hours ago, Haljo1935 said:

This!

When cruising, life is good even if the tea or coffee is not 😉

 

Yes indeedy. How did the travelers of yesteryear ever manage it? One wonders what they would make of the unavailability of good coffee or the lack of boiling water for tea?

 

(The above is meant to be tongue-in-cheek for the most part and I recognize that everyone has a right to expect all reasonable mod cons on ships.)

[Heidi13]

12 hours ago, BobbiSox said:

I am amazed at the number of cruisers on this board who are willing to risk the lives of thousands of people so they can have their perfectly brewed cup of tea. Some even offer an explanation as to why an electric kettle is perfectly safe, when they have no knowledge  whatsoever about the electrical systems on a ship. Any suggestions offered regarding an alternate way to enjoy a cup of tea is flat out rejected. If there is the slightest chance that something could a fire hazard, why on earth would anyone ignore the warning.?

 

When discussing these types of issues, may I suggest you need to consider the correlation between risk and fire hazards, and how ships incorporate structural fire protection and fixed/portable extinguishing systems.

 

Is an electric kettle perfectly safe, no it is not, but neither is any electrical appliance, many of which are readily accepted on cruise ships. Only a couple of months ago, I read of a ship's Bridge destroyed by fire, which was started by unattended re-charging of lithium-ion portable radio batteries. Those are clearly a fire hazard, but I'll suggest most, if not all pax, have at least 1 re-chargeable lithium ion battery. Other acceptable devices, such as mobility scooters and CPAP's, etc. may have similar batteries, but are accepted on board. Other accepted electrical appliances, such as curling irons, hair dryers, etc are also potential fire hazards.

 

Since multiple common appliances are potential fire hazards, you must consider risk and mitigate accordingly. In accordance with construction regulations, this is completed during the design phase, with structural fire protection and fixed/portable extinguishing systems being installed, based on the combustion load and fire risk. Therefore, an electric kettle is no more danger, especially modern kettles with auto shut-off, than coffee makers or other electrical appliances.

 

In addition to the construction regulations, the P&I Clubs and insurance syndicates consider risk. On UK based ships, where the majority of the pax require a kettle in the cabin, the risk is higher than not having a kettle, so premiums will be higher.

 

Ships based in the US market, where very limited kettles are supplied, have a lower risk, so I expect pay lower premiums.

[OlsSalt]

2019 California - 34 passengers killed instantly in an on-board dive boat fire.

 

 

WIKI: ............. and cameras had been plugged in to charge overnight. The designer of the vessel speculated the fire may have begun in the bunk area, possibly sparked by a lithium battery.^[17] 

 

Boats made at the time the Conception was built were not installed with electrical systems that could handle the number of rechargeable devices carried by current passengers, who often bring cell phones, cameras, and lighting systems for their dives. The sheer number of devices charging at once may have overloaded circuits, or the devices' lithium-ion batteries may have overloaded.^[71]

 

 In October 2018, two passengers aboard the sister ship Vision saw a battery and charger catch on fire in the aft portion of the salon; one unplugged it and dunked it in a bin of rinse water, and the other emptied a fire extinguisher onto the aft bookcase where it had been plugged in.^[72][73]

 

The NTSB planned to take remnants of any devices charging in the boat to their headquarters near Washington, D.C. for further examination.^[12] 

 

On September 10, the Coast Guard issued Marine Safety Information Bulletin (MSIB) 008–19, immediately advising owners, operators, and masters of passenger vessels to limit "the unsupervised charging of lithium-ion batteries and extensive use of power strips and extension cords".......................

[bajae]

1 hour ago, OlsSalt said:

2019 California - 34 passengers killed instantly in an on-board dive boat fire.

 

 

WIKI: ............. and cameras had been plugged in to charge overnight. The designer of the vessel speculated the fire may have begun in the bunk area, possibly sparked by a lithium battery.^[17] 

 

Boats made at the time the Conception was built were not installed with electrical systems that could handle the number of rechargeable devices carried by current passengers, who often bring cell phones, cameras, and lighting systems for their dives. The sheer number of devices charging at once may have overloaded circuits, or the devices' lithium-ion batteries may have overloaded.^[71]

 

 In October 2018, two passengers aboard the sister ship Vision saw a battery and charger catch on fire in the aft portion of the salon; one unplugged it and dunked it in a bin of rinse water, and the other emptied a fire extinguisher onto the aft bookcase where it had been plugged in.^[72][73]

 

The NTSB planned to take remnants of any devices charging in the boat to their headquarters near Washington, D.C. for further examination.^[12] 

 

On September 10, the Coast Guard issued Marine Safety Information Bulletin (MSIB) 008–19, immediately advising owners, operators, and masters of passenger vessels to limit "the unsupervised charging of lithium-ion batteries and extensive use of power strips and extension cords".......................

Yikes!! I assume the newer ships have been built to accommodate the increase of all the personnel devices we need to charge but what about the older ships like the Zaandam? 

[Haljo1935]

Incidents such as referenced by @OlsSalt and @Heidi13 are likely why cabin stewards unplug cords, charges and devices when they service our cabins.

[Dancing Shoes]

11 hours ago, BobbiSox said:

I am sorry for offending anyone on this board. Perhaps I need to take my medication and put on my glasses. I am not new to this board; I don't post much but I read almost everyday. I'm not new to HAL; I am 5-star. I will only read now and keep my crazy opinions to myself. 😔

This is a tough crowd.  Lot's of laughs and getting sideways on topics.  You offended no one.  Also, the regular coffee is bad.  I am a coffee snob.

[OlsSalt]

Makes complaining about "dated pink tile" in the bathrooms feel a little trivial when asking all HAL ships be up to current electrical wiring demands after being in mothballs earring no money for two years. 

 

Anyone sailing HAL ships for a while can remember when people first started adding Kindle readers to their electronic cameras when plugging chargers into their cabin's two outlets, and one was 220.  Now people need at least five lithium battery plug-ins, all going at the same time?

 

This does scare a number of us. Who are equally concerned about the numbers of lithium battery plug we might forget to unplug before we leave home on the cruise - did we unplug the leaf blower charger, dear?

[The-Inside-Cabin]

5 hours ago, Haljo1935 said:

Incidents such as referenced by @OlsSalt and @Heidi13 are likely why cabin stewards unplug cords, charges and devices when they service our cabins.

They usually unplug stuff so they can plug in their vacuum cleaner.....

[mawvkysc]

On my last cruise (NCL) the stewards were REQUIRED to unplug anything that was charging.

[Heidi13]

13 hours ago, bajae said:

Yikes!! I assume the newer ships have been built to accommodate the increase of all the personnel devices we need to charge but what about the older ships like the Zaandam? 

 

The amount of power required for charging pax devices is minimal compared to the ship's equipment. Each circuit is also protected by a breaker. Even on ship's built in the 1950's, I haven't experienced issues with blowing breakers due to devices being plugged-in.

[TinaLee]

Wow, this thread jumped the shark…

[Godsonsafari]

Just to add my unrequested 0.02 USD: I assume that the issue with kettles comes down primarily to the lack of uniformity in what guests would take on board (similar to other devices they've banned) and thus concerns about condition and safety related to their operation from a liability standpoint. They may also be something which is not permitted based on some component of American maritime law as relates to bringing articles on board which have heating elements. There is a real cost for cruise lines in retention of guests who have items confiscated such as this, especially when those same articles are available in cabin outside the United States on the exact same ships. There is nothing specific about an electric tea kettle or hair dryer that would inherently draw electricity differently from anything else and cause explosions.

 

I've been on cruises all over the world and pretty much exclusively on what people would perceive as "American" lines. I have absolutely had tea kettles in room at least on Mariner of the Seas when in Southeast Asia, and I recall them possibly being installed on the Celebrity Constellation when I was in the Middle East. Both lines would ban those same devices from being brought aboard when those ships are cruising from the United States. This suggests to me an external element that prevents them from being installed in the US.

 

As for lithium-ion batteries being the genesis of this: you all do realize that the phones on which the apps installed for you to be able to have a decent cruise in 2024 are powered with lithium-ion batteries, right? Obviously they are not banned. That would also ban e-readers and laptops.