alfaeric Posted April 25 #776 Share Posted April 25 2 hours ago, BND said: Wouldn't want facts to get in the way of anyone's feelings. Then try not to get so offended when people add to your posts, then. You don't need to react to everyone quoting you. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BND Posted April 25 #777 Share Posted April 25 7 minutes ago, alfaeric said: Then try not to get so offended when people add to your posts, then. You don't need to react to everyone quoting you. Add to my posts? What exactly does that mean? I'm not allowed to post after someone quotes me? Whew, I'm glad you let me know. LOL Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RFerrington Posted April 30 #778 Share Posted April 30 I just read where the first ship had arrived in Baltimore since the accident. I thought they were only allowing the “trapped” ships to exit. Didn’t realize they were allowing new ships to enter the harbor. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mo&fran Posted April 30 #779 Share Posted April 30 25 minutes ago, RFerrington said: I just read where the first ship had arrived in Baltimore since the accident. I thought they were only allowing the “trapped” ships to exit. Didn’t realize they were allowing new ships to enter the harbor. That gets the port some business till they can open the deep channel. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chengkp75 Posted May 1 #780 Share Posted May 1 I've seen a couple of small tankers go in, and the MSC Cargo Passion III was the container ship. She is very small (1000 TEU containers, opposed to the Dali's 10,000), so her draft was not a problem, and a lot of her deck containers were refrigerated, so high value. I think the hope was to bring in some car carriers, but I don't think that happened. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
smokeybandit Posted May 1 #781 Share Posted May 1 That container ship was in and out pretty quick, too. There have been roros, but they typically dock before the bridge area at Sparrow's Point. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chengkp75 Posted May 4 #782 Share Posted May 4 Don't know if it's the first, but I see American Cruise Line's American Independence using the temporary channels to reach Baltimore, so cruises have returned to Baltimore. 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shipgeeks Posted May 4 #783 Share Posted May 4 3 minutes ago, chengkp75 said: Don't know if it's the first, but I see American Cruise Line's American Independence using the temporary channels to reach Baltimore, so cruises have returned to Baltimore. We saw that, too, but are wondering where she will dock, as the terminal is being used as command center. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rare KmomChicago Posted May 4 #784 Share Posted May 4 5 minutes ago, chengkp75 said: Don't know if it's the first, but I see American Cruise Line's American Independence using the temporary channels to reach Baltimore, so cruises have returned to Baltimore. Thanks, good news though she is a just a cute tiny little baby cruise ship. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
smokeybandit Posted May 4 #785 Share Posted May 4 15 minutes ago, chengkp75 said: Don't know if it's the first, but I see American Cruise Line's American Independence using the temporary channels to reach Baltimore, so cruises have returned to Baltimore. Out of curiosity I looked at their prices. My goodness. A 7 night cruise just touring Maryland and Virginia is more per person than I paid for three in a grand suite next month for an 8 night cruise on RC. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chengkp75 Posted May 4 #786 Share Posted May 4 18 minutes ago, smokeybandit said: Out of curiosity I looked at their prices. My goodness. A 7 night cruise just touring Maryland and Virginia is more per person than I paid for three in a grand suite next month for an 8 night cruise on RC. Welcome to US flag shipping. 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
smokeybandit Posted May 4 #787 Share Posted May 4 4 minutes ago, chengkp75 said: Welcome to US flag shipping. I mean I understand why. But jeez. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chengkp75 Posted May 4 #788 Share Posted May 4 35 minutes ago, shipgeeks said: We saw that, too, but are wondering where she will dock, as the terminal is being used as command center. These small ships dock in the Inner Harbor. I now see that American Glory is already at Pier 5, so Independence was not the first. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chengkp75 Posted May 4 #789 Share Posted May 4 3 minutes ago, smokeybandit said: I mean I understand why. But jeez. Reality sucks, when it smacks you right between the eyes. As I've said many times, Marad has shown that it costs three times as much to operate a US flag ship over a foreign flag one (and that is for a cargo ship, let alone a cruise ship). And, this shows why cruise lines are not pushing for repeal of the PVSA, as they are afraid the concessions they have to make to get the repeal would force them into some of these costly requirements that US flag ships have to meet. 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Biker19 Posted May 4 #790 Share Posted May 4 42 minutes ago, smokeybandit said: I mean I understand why. But jeez. Some of that extra cost is also due to the size of those ships - when compared to say a European river cruise, the costs become a bit closer. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ocean Boy Posted May 4 #791 Share Posted May 4 5 hours ago, chengkp75 said: Welcome to US flag shipping. In that case we should all be thankful to the Bahamas. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chengkp75 Posted May 4 #792 Share Posted May 4 8 minutes ago, Ocean Boy said: In that case we should all be thankful to the Bahamas. Yes, as long as you are not expecting the full protections and rights of US law, then by all means embrace foreign flag ships. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ocean Boy Posted May 5 #793 Share Posted May 5 3 hours ago, chengkp75 said: Yes, as long as you are not expecting the full protections and rights of US law, then by all means embrace foreign flag ships. I don't expect the rights of US law the minute I step out of the country. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chengkp75 Posted May 5 #794 Share Posted May 5 8 minutes ago, Ocean Boy said: I don't expect the rights of US law the minute I step out of the country. Then you are in the minority of US cruise passengers. 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sunshine3601 Posted May 5 #795 Share Posted May 5 9 hours ago, smokeybandit said: Out of curiosity I looked at their prices. My goodness. A 7 night cruise just touring Maryland and Virginia is more per person than I paid for three in a grand suite next month for an 8 night cruise on RC. Pre-covid we stayed at Pier 5 hotel (inner harbor) and saw one of their cruise ships docked there. I had never heard of them and check out their pricing online and was in shock and that was the fall of 2019. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
not-enough-cruising Posted May 5 #796 Share Posted May 5 2 hours ago, chengkp75 said: Then you are in the minority of US cruise passengers. The properly prepared and educated minority 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rare NMTraveller Posted May 6 #797 Share Posted May 6 (edited) On 5/4/2024 at 1:55 PM, chengkp75 said: Yes, as long as you are not expecting the full protections and rights of US law, then by all means embrace foreign flag ships. What do you think will become of the Dali captain and crew? I know your position on captains with lesser errors/incidents. Edited May 6 by NMTraveller Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chengkp75 Posted May 6 #798 Share Posted May 6 6 hours ago, NMTraveller said: What do you think will become of the Dali captain and crew? I know your position on captains with lesser errors/incidents. Again, just as I've said on the other threads, if he violated or ignored established company SMS policies or procedures, then he can be held responsible. Whether there are proceedings against his license will depend on India (the nation that issued his license). Whether he will be prosecuted in the US, either criminally or civilly, depends somewhat on what is decided in the USCG/NTSB investigation as to whether he was in compliance with all US laws and company SMS or not, but there will likely be a trial over the deaths of the workers. From an ISM viewpoint, there is no difference between this incident and the one concerning the Celebrity Edge in Hawaii, as far as assigning blame or punishing the Captain. If however, either the Captain's actions, or the SMS is in violation of US law, then there could be punishment for either or both the Captain and the company. I know you feel that Captains should be relieved of command immediately after any incident, but the US is still a country where you are innocent until proven guilty. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rare rafinmd Posted May 6 #799 Share Posted May 6 Given that the ship sailed with apparently known propulsion problems could the Chief Engineer be on the hook as well? Roy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chengkp75 Posted May 6 #800 Share Posted May 6 (edited) 36 minutes ago, rafinmd said: Given that the ship sailed with apparently known propulsion problems could the Chief Engineer be on the hook as well? Roy Well, first off, all I've heard is speculation about the power failures. We don't know what caused them, we don't know whether they were repaired. We don't know if the power failure that caused the ship to allide with the bridge was the same problem as the problems at the dock. If it is found that the Chief Engineer withheld information from the Captain, then yes, he could be found to have violated the SMS policies, as well as possibly being held legally liable as well. Quite a few ships sail into/out of port every day, all around the world, with "propulsion problems" as they are referred to here on CC. Ships are required to have 100% redundancy of power, on line and running, while maneuvering into/out of port. This means that two generators, each of which can handle the entire shipboard electrical load, will be running, and connected to the switchboard, so that if one of them fails, the other can carry the full load. But, what happens if the second online generator fails as well? That's why ships all have at least 3 generators, so that there is a backup. But, engines need maintenance and repair. So, one generator is taken out of service for maintenance, and the ship is now going to enter port. Is this a "propulsion problem"? Not legally, since there are the statutory required two generators available and running. But, they don't have a backup. While some may say this is a "propulsion problem" because not all the generators are available for use, it is not considered to be of sufficient probability that the third generator would be needed, that it would be required to be available. Some systems onboard have two pumps, one running, one standby. If the standby pump is being overhauled, that could be a "propulsion problem" if it stopped running, and the other pump isn't available, but the simple fact that a standby pump is out of service is not a "propulsion problem", since the system is working. Edited May 6 by chengkp75 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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