Holland America - Premium or Mainstream cruiseline?

We had cold towels and cold drinks when we came back to HAL when in Bermuda' date=' friends who have done warm climate cruises with HAL said they did it too.

Terri[/quote']

 

NCL do this as well - and chilled fruit skewers - very welcome after a hot day touristing.

We have had cold towels on boarding set up outside the ship on Celebrity, Carnival, and HAL. Not really that unusual or upscale in my mind.

 

More a reflection of a well managed, customer oriented ship.

Diane, Diane, Diane..... The cruise we were on was definitely upscale- we were on it and we are far from mainstream!

 

Frank, I should know that if you are on the cruise, it is for sure premium! Hugs to you and Loren!

I will add and stand back in case of possible flames that HAL is I believe the only line with the Code Orange the first two days. I don't hear about mass Noro outbreaks on the other lines (and it is news when it happens).

 

I was Talking with someone in the NL last trip and he had heard that by having everything portioned out the first two days in the Lido people actually get used to smaller helpings and they found they tend to eat less after the code orange is lifted. We are creatures of habit and there is the whole Pavlov's dog thing.

 

Not far off from removing trays to cut back how much is eaten. Same reason buffet restaurants use smaller plates and seat people in specific areas to increase the distance from the food lines for those who would likely make more trips through the lines.

We have had cold towels on boarding set up outside the ship on Celebrity, Carnival, and HAL. Not really that unusual or upscale in my mind.

More a reflection of a well managed, customer oriented ship.

 

Also on Princess! It's normal ... not upscale.

LuLu

[quote name='frankc98376']I will add and stand back in case of possible flames that HAL is I believe the only line with the Code Orange the first two days. I don't hear about mass Noro outbreaks on the other lines (and it is news when it happens).

I was Talking with someone in the NL last trip and he had heard that by having everything portioned out the first two days in the Lido people actually get used to smaller helpings and they found they tend to eat less after the code orange is lifted. We are creatures of habit and there is the whole Pavlov's dog thing.

Not far off from removing trays to cut back how much is eaten. Same reason buffet restaurants use smaller plates and seat people in specific areas to increase the distance from the food lines for those who would likely make more trips through the lines.[/QUOTE]
[FONT="Comic Sans MS"][SIZE="4"]No flames, but that is one of HAL's better decisions.

Back on topic, I consider HAL to be mass market today, for many of the reasons given already in this thread. I don't foresee this changing for the better any time soon.[/SIZE][/FONT]

[quote name='frankc98376']I will add and stand back in case of possible flames that HAL is I believe the only line with the Code Orange the first two days. I don't hear about mass Noro outbreaks on the other lines (and it is news when it happens).

I was Talking with someone in the NL last trip and he had heard that by having everything portioned out the first two days in the Lido people actually get used to smaller helpings and they found they tend to eat less after the code orange is lifted. We are creatures of habit and there is the whole Pavlov's dog thing.

Not far off from removing trays to cut back how much is eaten. Same reason buffet restaurants use smaller plates and seat people in specific areas to increase the distance from the food lines for those who would likely make more trips through the lines.[/QUOTE]

Princess does not do code orange. Interesting info that you have brought up and I wouldn't doubt if it was true. I wonder how much this helps with noro. Just because the cruiseline says it helps, doesn't mean it's true. I've heard Hal used to have the highest percentage of noro. I wonder if it's still true.

cold towels? technology? etc etc ..
that is beyond my desires .. as was stated by others ... DW and I take HAL because the price they charge for what we want fits our pocketbook and we thoroughly enjoy the results. We don't consider the pricing/results mainstream ... further, HAL is dependable most of the time presenting a homogenous product to us.
harry

Actually I like Rick Steve's breakdown of the cruise industry into 4 groups.

Mass Market--huge ships that have a resort at sea ambience

Premium Lines--a step up from Mass Market with clientele who are more interested in sightseeing, are older and well traveled.

Luxury Lines--smaller ships, better food and service with less emphasis on selling you extras. An exclusive clientele.

Ultra luxury--top dollar for these cruises. Many of the same features of luxury, upscale clientele, classier atmosphere, less emphasis onboard experience and more on the destination-focused experience.with extras all included in the price.

With this breakdown HAL falls into the Premium line. It is definitely not a ship for everyone like NCL, Carnival, Costa, MCS, and Royal Carribbean.

Ultra-luxury ships are Oceania, Azamara, Star Clippers and Windstar Cruises according to Rick Steve's.

You can figure what category all the other cruiselines not mentioned fall into.

You might believe that HAL is Mass Market or Mainstream, but that would mean they are a cruiseline for everyone. HAL ships are much smaller than the Mass Market Cruiselines. To me trying to compare HAL to any of them is like comparing apples and oranges.

And I don't believe absolutely everyone would be happy on a HAL ship. As to whether it is at the top of bottom of the Premium catagory would depend on what you are looking for in a ship.

Between two categories: mass market and luxury, HAL is definitely mass market.

With the four categories identified above, it would be premium - but I'm inclined to think that is too complex - differentiating between luxury and ultra luxury makes me wonder why not do the same at the bottom end --- say "mass market" and "public transit".

Because such grading is so subjective, it becomes almost pointless to fine tune.

[quote name='Storylady']Actually I like Rick Steve's breakdown of the cruise industry into 4 groups.

Mass Market--huge ships that have a resort at sea ambience

Premium Lines--a step up from Mass Market with clientele who are more interested in sightseeing, are older and well traveled.

Luxury Lines--smaller ships, better food and service with less emphasis on selling you extras. An exclusive clientele.

Ultra luxury--top dollar for these cruises. Many of the same features of luxury, upscale clientele, classier atmosphere, less emphasis onboard experience and more on the destination-focused experience.with extras all included in the price.

With this breakdown HAL falls into the Premium line. It is definitely not a ship for everyone like NCL, Carnival, Costa, MCS, and Royal Carribbean.

Ultra-luxury ships are Oceania, Azamara, Star Clippers and Windstar Cruises according to Rick Steve's.

You can figure what category all the other cruiselines not mentioned fall into.

You might believe that HAL is Mass Market or Mainstream, but that would mean they are a cruiseline for everyone. HAL ships are much smaller than the Mass Market Cruiselines. To me trying to compare HAL to any of them is like comparing apples and oranges.

And I don't believe absolutely everyone would be happy on a HAL ship. As to whether it is at the top of bottom of the Premium catagory would depend on what you are looking for in a ship.[/QUOTE]

Rick Steves should stick with guide books and leave the cruise ratings to the folks here on CC :) There is no way that Oceania (which does not include drinks in their fare) is an ultra-luxury line. And this is especially true when you factor in their older "R" ships which are no different then the "R" ships operated by Princess. As to Azamara (we love this line) we are not sure it makes the "Ultra luxury" category although its close. Ultra-Luxury would be lines like Regent, Seabourn, Silverseas, Sea Dream, etc. Crystal might also fit into that ultra-luxury category although some would argue their ships are too big.

Hank

When we first sailed HAL in the late 90's early 2000's, it was a premium line.

It is now in its own unique niche.

It isn't premium because of the reduced number of crew to passenger ratio. The service has definitely suffered in many areas. However, it isn't mainstream because of the unique itineraries offered and the "little touches" that make it stand apart; i.e. wrap around promenade deck, art work displayed throughout, unbelievable crew. (I'm sure there are other things, but they are the ones that mean the most to me).

I only sailed on the Marco Polo one time. It couldn't be "lumped" into any category either because it was such a different vessel.

[quote name='Hlitner']Rick Steves should stick with guide books and leave the cruise ratings to the folks here on CC :) There is no way that Oceania (which does not include drinks in their fare) is an ultra-luxury line. And this is especially true when you factor in their older "R" ships which are no different then the "R" ships operated by Princess. As to Azamara (we love this line) we are not sure it makes the "Ultra luxury" category although its close. Ultra-Luxury would be lines like Regent, Seabourn, Silverseas, Sea Dream, etc. Crystal might also fit into that ultra-luxury category although some would argue their ships are too big.

Hank[/QUOTE]
Sorry, that was a mistype. Thanks for catching it. I re-re-read it and I thought I had listed the category correctly.

Luxury according to Rick Steve is actually, Azamara, Oceania, Wind Star and Star Cruises.

Ultra Luxury are Crystal, Regent, Seabourne, Sea Dream and Silver Sea. And he lists them in that order with Crystal being the best.

I have Douglas Ward's 2014 Berlitz Cruising and Cruise Ships and must prefer its listing. It has HAL in the premium lifestyle, along with Celebrity, Oceania and Azamara.

This is the summary of HAL from the book:

"Holland America Line has all the right touches for seniors and retirees: smiling service staff, lots of flowers, traditions of the past, good cooking demonstrations, and speciality grill rooms. The ships are best suited to older couples and singles who like to mingle in a large ship, in an unhurried setting with fine quality surroundings. There's plenty of eclectic antique artwork, decent - though not gourmet - food, and service from a smiling Indonesian/Filipino crew who do not have the finesse many passengers expect from a 'premium' product."

[quote name='cbr663']I have Douglas Ward's 2014 Berlitz Cruising and Cruise Ships and must prefer its listing. It has HAL in the premium lifestyle, along with Celebrity, Oceania and Azamara.

This is the summary of HAL from the book:

"Holland America Line has all the right touches for seniors and retirees: smiling service staff, lots of flowers, traditions of the past, good cooking demonstrations, and speciality grill rooms. The ships are best suited to older couples and singles who like to mingle in a large ship, in an unhurried setting with fine quality surroundings. There's plenty of eclectic antique artwork, decent - though not gourmet - food, and service from a smiling Indonesian/Filipino crew who do not have the finesse many passengers expect from a 'premium' product."[/QUOTE]

I think that summary correctly identifies HAL's character: traditional, laid back, decent (though certainly not de luxe) food and service.

Works for me.

Yes, I agree. The description works for me also. Of course, there is much more on HAL included in the book. For those who are interested, four of HAL's ships placed in the Top 10 mid-size ship Star Performers category:

1. Crystal Serenity
2. Crystal Symphony
3. Riviera
4. Marina
5. Asuka II
6. Artania
7. Prinsendam
8. Rotterdam
9. Amsterdam
10. Zaandam

At the end of the day, if you asked us if we would pay more to be on a HAL on an identical itinerary to, lets say, a Princess, Celebrity, RCI, or NCL ship the answer would be a definite no. So if we are not willing to pay more, it is not premium for us.

And in fact depending on the HAL ship would we would not be willing to even pay the same fare. Just comes down to personal preference/priorities. We find the level of service not very different between all these cruise lines despite HAL's wonderful Filipino crew. We find the other crews just a wonderful. I think it is more a case of what you are used to.

Interesting to read the different view points.

The only rating that matters to me is how I rate HAL. At the end of the day I will be the one cruising, not the guidebook writers who published their ratings.

HAL (in my view) in current form is a mainstream cruise line with a few remaining touches of a premium line.

[quote name='cbr663']I have Douglas Ward's 2014 Berlitz Cruising and Cruise Ships and must prefer its listing. It has HAL in the premium lifestyle, along with Celebrity, Oceania and Azamara.

This is the summary of HAL from the book:

"Holland America Line has all the right touches for seniors and retirees: smiling service staff, lots of flowers, traditions of the past, good cooking demonstrations, and speciality grill rooms. The ships are best suited to older couples and singles who like to mingle in a large ship, in an unhurried setting with fine quality surroundings. There's plenty of eclectic antique artwork, decent - though not gourmet - food, and service from a smiling Indonesian/Filipino crew who do not have the finesse many passengers expect from a 'premium' product."[/QUOTE]



Ward seems to undercut his own "premium" rating with comments such as "decent - though not gourmet - food" and concerning a crew lacking the "finesse" pax "expect from a 'premium' product.'" One wonders how often a line's product is thoroughly reviewed for each yearly edition of the guidebooks. In my experience a lot of wording remains the same for multiple years. I can't imagine that even a fervent HAL fan would rank them as equivalent to Oceania or Azamara.

[quote name='OCruisers'][FONT="Comic Sans MS"][SIZE="3"]Also on Princess! It's normal ... not upscale.
LuLu [/SIZE][/FONT][/QUOTE]

Neither on Crown Princess (2009, British Isles) nor on Emerald Princess (Baltic, July 2013) we did not get any drink or towel when returning to the ship.
Constellation was in Copenhagen, together with us - there, the passengers got towels and drinks at the ship.

[COLOR="Black"]This thread has been very insightful, informative, and interesting. We haven't sailed on HAL yet, but are eagerly planning to give it a go in 2016.

We have sailed on Princess twice and have another Princess cruise in December. If HAL is comparable or better, I'm sure we will be quite happy with our experience.[/COLOR]

[quote name='iancal']At the end of the day, if you asked us if we would pay more to be on a HAL on an identical itinerary to, lets say, a Princess, Celebrity, RCI, or NCL ship the answer would be a definite no. So if we are not willing to pay more, it is not premium for us.

And in fact depending on the HAL ship would we would not be willing to even pay the same fare. Just comes down to personal preference/priorities. We find the level of service not very different between all these cruise lines despite HAL's wonderful Filipino crew. We find the other crews just a wonderful. I think it is more a case of what you are used to.[/QUOTE]
[FONT="Comic Sans MS"][SIZE="4"]Agreed. All things being equal (price, itinerary, cabin) we would pick Celebrity over HAL. Can't speak about the other lines you mention as we've not tried them. On the other hand, we are booked for an Alaskan cruise on HAL next month as we aren't ready to cross them off our list quite yet.[/SIZE][/FONT]

[quote name='celebrity_fan']Neither on Crown Princess (2009, British Isles) nor on Emerald Princess (Baltic, July 2013) we did not get any drink or towel when returning to the ship.
Constellation was in Copenhagen, together with us - there, the passengers got towels and drinks at the ship.[/QUOTE]

Just wait until they install the new water and cold towel vending machines on the pier. Just put your cruise card in the slot and out will pop a cold bottle of water and a cold damp biodegradable towel- all for the low price of $5!

I purchased a copy of Anne Vipond's "Panama Canal by Cruise Ship" Fifth Edition published in 2014. There is a listing of cruise lines and brief descriptions near the back. Her list describes Carnival, NCL, and Royal as contemporary lines.
Premium lines include HAL, Celebrity, Princess and Windstar in her list. Luxury lines are Crystal, Regent, Seabourn, and Silversea in her list. Azamara is described as a boutique line; Cunard and MSC as traditional. Oceania is described as upper premium.

Interestingly she doesn't use the terms mainstream or mass-market, although I think the lines she describes as contemporary fit the bill.

Personally I agree with putting HAL, Princess and Celebrity as premium lines in the same category. It has been our experience that they are more similar than different, and are definitely in a higher category than NCL and Royal (with Solstice class ships leading the pack). And Crystal is definitely in a higher category because of it's all inclusive nature.

That has been our experience to date.:)

[quote name='sp2']I purchased a copy of Anne Vipond's "Panama Canal by Cruise Ship" Fifth Edition published in 2014. There is a listing of cruise lines and brief descriptions near the back. Her list describes Carnival, NCL, and Royal as contemporary lines.
Premium lines include HAL, Celebrity, Princess and Windstar in her list. Luxury lines are Crystal, Regent, Seabourn, and Silversea in her list. Azamara is described as a boutique line; Cunard and MSC as traditional. Oceania is described as upper premium.

Interestingly she doesn't use the terms mainstream or mass-market, although I think the lines she describes as contemporary fit the bill.

Personally I agree with putting HAL, Princess and Celebrity as premium lines in the same category. It has been our experience that they are more similar than different, and are definitely in a higher category than NCL and Royal (with Solstice class ships leading the pack). And Crystal is definitely in a higher category because of it's all inclusive nature.

That has been our experience to date.:)[/QUOTE]

Those designations are more in line with the ones that the industry (CLIA) uses. The only exception would be that there are only four. Her list is missing the Adventure/Specialty segment, and she adds in a segment to fit lines like Azamara & Oceania that are premium, but trying to be near luxury.