GASP .... We're Ready to Give Up Formal

DH and I just returned from two wonderful weeks on Maasdam and enjoyed ourselves greatly, as always.

DH wore tuxedo and I wore cocktail dresses for our four formal nights and we were happy and all was well.

However, it is clear, many do not think formal means them and we saw more shorts, t shirts, sneakers, sweaty clothes that had without doubt been worn all day and unwashed bodies with greasy hair than I care to see any evening let alone 'formal night'.

Done. We say 'uncle'.

We are ready to say........ no more formal.

I do not expect HAL to fight with guests as to what they should be wearing.

They are in the hospitality business and not interested in squabbling with their guests.

When HAL started describing formal as far less than anyone else would describe it, they gave up on formal.

What they describe is not formal so please......

Give it up. It's over. On smart casual nights, far more people seemed to make an effort to 'clean up' for the evening than did on formal night. There are far too many ignoring polite request to observe dress code to disregard anymore.

IMO

Sadly for many of us, the world has changed...and not necessarily for the better.

We have stopped packing formal wear as well. Airline luggage restrictions and the breakdown of the traditional social patterns have convinced us to let it go.

Cruises are still fun. So, we'll just adapt and keep on cruising.

I understand your thoughts. Even though our last cruise did have a higher percent of true formal, we also saw what you describe. We were waiting to be seated and the couple in front of us were dressed in jeans. After the waiter left to take them to their table I asked the manager when they started letting people come to formal dinner in jeans, he said, "we won't do that":rolleyes:. I told him he just had. To be honest, we are just starting to get tired of going through the efforts when others don't. When we don't dress for formal, we eat in Lido, others don't seem to have the same consideration.

Kirk

Airline luggage rules are the reason lots of folks give. An extra suitcase checked is not really all that much in the scope of cruising costs.

We are flexible enough to give up formal and be okay about it but I won't use feeble excuses.

Most of us, if honest, will acknowledge society (worldwide) but particularly U.S. and Canada have changed dramatically in recent years. Not all of it is bad. I'm honest enough to see it for what it is.

But $30 for a suitcase is not the reason. IMO If that was the reason, they'd at least shower, wear a decent pair of trousers, shirt and tie. To show up at a formal dining room in sweaty t shirt and shorts/sneakers says far more about that person than they don't want to pay $30 to check an extra suitcase. IMO It may say they are all set to argue with Dining Room Manager. That is not in HAL's plan for hospitality I wouldn't think. The worst offenders are usually the first looking for a fight.

With careful planning, one can bring tuxedo and everything else they need in under 50 pound suitcase. They do not want to.

I think it's fantastic can't imagine wearing a tux or suite anymore while on vacation. I'm in full agreement with you no more formal nights.

Since I gave formals up it's really nice not to have to pack all that formal wear as well.

You are so right! We are looking at the maasdam or noordam in January so I have been over here on the HAL boards for awhile also. We usually sail Princess. It is the same there.

My DH used to bring the tux and another 2-3 sports coats for dinner at night. I took gowns. Lately it has been the tux and polos for him and cocktail dresses / pants for me. I wouldn't mind so much, but couldn't everyone just "change" for dinner at least. Just a shower and neat clothes would go a long way towards making the evening seem more special!:)

I agree. Society has tended to dumb down everything, from education to social grace. The elegant formal evening has always been a calling card for us. Jeans being allowed makes a mockery of the guidelines. The cruise lines may as well also cry "uncle" and be done with formal nights.

Sail,

I understand your feelings! However, I am not ready to wave the "white flag" and give in to those who do not understand what "formal" or "elegant Night" means. Even when I was on Carnival Pride, I wore my tux, and I was not the only gentleman who did so. (Granted, there were not many, but I was not alone.) That first Elegant Night, I passed by another gentleman who was nicely dressed in a coat and tie. We exchanged greetings and he said, "You look sharp!" That made the effort to dress up just that much more worthwhile.

 

I think it's fantastic can't imagine wearing a tux or suite anymore while on vacation. I'm in full agreement with you no more formal nights.

 

Since I gave formals up it's really nice not to have to pack all that formal wear as well.

Do you pack a jacket and tie? Or do you wear shorts to the dining room? What do you wear to the dining room on formal nights?

I think as we grow older, its not so much the money for the extra bag, its the hassle of too many bags. Add that to the hassle with all the airport security and its just not worth it. We used to always carry formal and what used to be coat & tie for men on the nights that weren't casual or formal. There used to be only one casual night on a 7-day cruise and that was the day of embarkation. Ed still carries his sports coat and a few ties but I don't do the sequins and long dresses anymore. I do miss the dressier times but it seems they are passe everywhere. I think the dress today is sometimes horrendous but that is probably my age. I dont' like unironed clothes and shirt tails hanging out. Its tacky and that is just a fact not an opinion. A person can looked well groomed and still be casual.

What makes me laugh sometimes is when I read a post here asking how can they get an Officer to dine at their table on formal night? Of course, I almost never personally know the people posting it but I picture an officer going to the trouble to put on their beautiful, starched whites, dressing up and looking great to be shown to a table of people who never did get in the shower and are wearing the dirty t shirt they wore all day in the hot Caribbean sun.

Would you want to work on the ship all day, get back to your cabin tired but go to the trouble to make a special evening for a lucky table of guests to find they didn't bother to wash let alone dress appropriately?

Why would they bother to come out at night if that is what they are greeted with?

Just speculating, of course........ ;)

<snip>

 

 

A person can looked well groomed and still be casual.

 

YES> They certainly can.

"we shall fight on the seas and oceans,

we shall fight with growing confidence and growing strength in the air, we shall defend our Island, whatever the cost may be,

we shall fight on the beaches,

we shall fight on the landing grounds,

we shall fight in the fields and in the streets,

we shall fight in the hills;

we shall never surrender"

Winston Churchill's Blood, Sweat, and Tears speech, 4 June 1940

:D :) THAT was a fight that was worth it.

For us, this one no longer is.

I made it a point to take notice of what people were wearing on formal night on my recent Maasdam cruise. While I saw very few tuxes, almost all of the men were in suits or sport jackets. There was one woman sitting near us in a sweater and skirt, but her kids were more dressed than she was. I didn't see any gowns, but most women were in dressy pants or short cocktail dresses. There were no shorts, t shirts or anything like that in the dining room.

It's interesting, Judy, that you had such a different dress scene two weeks later.I wonder why?

Just what we needed, another formal dress thread following so closely on the last one. To each his own, let it be.

I'll stop bringing my formal attire when, and if the cruise line no longer supports it. I could care less what anyone else is wearing. I'm not changing my lifestyle for the sake of others. Once you give up you lose.

Michael

It can certainly be discouraging to see the dressing down on formal nights. The pleasure of seeing a large group of people in their finest is, very sadly, becoming a thing of the past. Where we once counted formal night dark suits and tuxes in the hundreds, we now count them in the dozens.

We very much enjoy the opportunity to dress formally, and will be doing that till the bitter end - even if we're the only couple dressed that way. I just dare someone to tell me I'm overdressed. :)

Airline luggage rules are the reason lots of folks give. An extra suitcase checked is not really all that much in the scope of cruising costs.

 

But $30 for a suitcase is not the reason. IMO If that was the reason, they'd at least shower, wear a decent pair of trousers, shirt and tie. To show up at a formal dining room in sweaty t shirt and shorts/sneakers says far more about that person than they don't want to pay $30 to check an extra suitcase. IMO It may say they are all set to argue with Dining Room Manager. That is not in HAL's plan for hospitality I wouldn't think. The worst offenders are usually the first looking for a fight.

Not to be argumentative because in general I agree with you, but airline baggage fees are more like $25-30 each direction, which means that for an extra suitcase, one has to spend $50-60 extra for the trip. We are a family of 5, which means an extra $250-$290 per trip if we took an extra suitcase for everybody. That is a lot of money for us. :D

Now having said that, if we didn't have formal clothing, I just wouldn't go to a formal night. I don't understand the party crashers who go in their jeans. If you don't want to dress up, eat in the Lido. We've done that before. On our upcoming trip we are planning to bring more formal clothes and pay for unlimited laundry so we can wear our casual clothes more often and save room for our dressy clothes. That will cost us less hassle and less money than bringing a bunch of bags with us.

:D :) THAT was a fight that was worth it.

 

For us, this one no longer is.

Could you estimate percentage wise how many men were in compliance with HALs formal night dress code? Or what percentage of men didn`t comply with the dress code. Thanks.

Just what we needed, another formal dress thread following so closely on the last one. To each his own, let it be.

If you don't approve of dress code threads, in a free society, you are permitted to move on to another thread. Some however, choose to not "let it be".

The soluton is actually quite simple.

And as you stated, "to each his own".

Sail,

I totally understand where you are coming from...

But for us other than cruise we really no longer have the opportunity to dress up or dress formally.

Back in the day DH had to wear a suit and white shirt and tie everyday to work and I wore suits or dresses and heels everyday. That's gone by the wayside to first casual Friday and now casual everyday. I shake my head at what some people wear to work. I do dress a lot more casual than I ever used to but on meeting days I make a point to look professional.

When we were young we even hosted a few Black Tie dinner parties just because it was fun to dress up and cook really formal food and get out all the sterling, china and crystal. I can't imagine doing that in this day and age. And our friends would think we have lost it.

Rarely do we get a black tie wedding invitation. My parents no longer belong to a country club that required men to wear suits for dinner.

So if it wasn't for cruising I don't think we would ever get really dressed up again.

Every now and again DH says no more tuxes for cruising but as we get closer to sailing date I see him getting his dress shirt sent out to the cleaner and gathering up his bow tie (the kind you really tie) and studs. He was even in a panic when his cumberbund when missing the night before we sailed. I of course found it right away.

For now we will continue to bring all that stuff along because we like making the effort. For those that choose to wear casual everyday so be it. For those that are dirty and sweaty there is no excuse at all and there will always be those going against the grain.

On our cruise in May no flowers for suite passengers - maybe HAL has given that up too.

Sail, what I don't understand about your post is why you are singling out formal nights. What you described as how some people dressed wouldn't pass muster on Smart Casual night, either. To appear for the evening not showered and changed, in shorts, t-shirts, sweatsuits, etc. is not smart casual. It's slovenly, at best, and may very well be worse.

Let's assume for the sake of argument that you are not a slob (a fair evaluation knowing you; you have personal pride), then you will change after a day ashore. You need something to change into. It might as well meet the dress code, be it a formal or smart casual night.

All this stuff about airline restrictions and extra costs for suitcases is nonsense. Dressy clothes don't have to weigh anymore than sloppy ones.

I'm sure if the attitudes hadn't changed, we would still be bringing our dress up stuff, too. But, they do take up more room. Especially the men's stuff. You used to have to bring the formal stuff plus the sports coat and starched shirts. Ed still wears starched shirt but he can wear polos with his khakis now and they look smart casual, but it still takes more room for his clothes than it does mine. I do remember once before the airlines started with the charging per bag, we had to do an extra carryon because they would let us check everything we took. And for our last cruise, Ed was checking bags while I parked the car at the airport and one of our bags was 3# over. I asked how much? He said he didn't know. He paid with a card and signed it. When we got home, it was $80. I told him I'd already paid for the bags, so he calls them and it was $80 for being overweight. I'm sorry. Its not so much the money, its the feeling of getting ripped by the airlines. We try to fly SW now because they don't charge for bags.

We go with the flow. If everyone wants to dress formal then so will we but we can let it go quite easily - DH even more easily than me.

However, Sail while I take your point about cost of an extra case, someone else has mentioned about the inconvenience of an extra suitcase. This is definitely our thinking. No way would we bring an extra case. We can cope with two ourselves and therefore do early disembarkation, and indeed manage our own luggage at every point.

However, I do agree with Ruth that it does not take up that much more space, just probably no longer our way of dressing. I think I end up somewhere in the middle - underdressed on formals, overdressed on other nights. But those are the clothes I wear normally and feel comfortable in.

:D :) THAT was a fight that was worth it.

 

For us, this one no longer is.

OK....I was stretching a bit with the Winston Churchill quote but it was the best I could do at the moment. ;):) Seriously though we still enjoy formal nights and I'll have to say our Maasdam cruise in March was one of the better ones in regards to people dressing appropriately. It's not that we spent a lot of time taking count but independently we both mentioned later in the evening that it was nice to see so many people dress appropriately, way more than on our previous Veendam cruise. We're actually looking forward to that aspect of our Silversea cruise next year as they are supposedly known for adherence to dress codes and passengers whom seem to like to dress accordingly. That said, even the Silversea board here has discussions about dress code, pretty much along the lines we have had here on the HAL board. Of course the difference over there is the volume, in terms of number of posts, as I don't think all the Silversea ships together hold as many passengers as two or so Vista class ships. :)